ich management help

[Lil Puff]

Hi, I have a 120 gallon predator reef with the following fish:

Enigmatic moray eel
White eyed moray eel
Clarkii clownfish
Wrasse
Parrot fish
Porcupine pufferfish

When I purchased the puffer online he arrived unwell and when I added him to the tank we found out he had ich. I decided to go with the ich management route as I didn’t have the room or time to quarantine my fish. I purchased a 57watt uv steriliser which has worked magnificently and removed most of the spots to the point I struggle to find them on him but he still never comes out of his pvc pipe even when I’m feeding - I have to put the food into his mouth with my hands for him to be bothered to eat anything as he doesn’t track down the food even if it floats past him. When he does eat he only eats about half a prawn. Today I tried feeding him a yabby/crawfish and he had no interest which really worry’s me. All the other fish are fine except for the wrasse which I have seen flash a couple of times but it is eating and acting fine and has no sign of white spots.

Question time
Could there be anything else wrong with the puffer? Is there anything else I can use that’s reef safe I can add along side the uv steriliser to get the last of the ich. I was looking into using metroplex and focus added to there food to see if that helps. Is there some sort of reef safe multicure that cures ich and other possible diseases/parasites? I was also looking at poly lab medic but I would rather something that targets more than one disease/parasite in case it’s something along side the ich. Is h2O2 dosing also an option. I read that’s virtually the same as poly lab medic.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks

 

[fishguy242]

#fishmedic

 

[jmichaelh7]

first thing they are going to ask is to provide pictures in decent lighting.

 

[Lil Puff]

first thing they are going to ask is to provide pictures in decent lighting.

I can’t see any spots to take photos of but he is blotchy and light in colour when he is supposed to be dark and a solid colour with white belly.

This is what the puffer is supposed too look like - images off the internet.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi, I have a 120 gallon predator reef with the following fish:

Enigmatic moray eel
White eyed moray eel
Clarkii clownfish
Wrasse
Parrot fish
Porcupine pufferfish

When I purchased the puffer online he arrived unwell and when I added him to the tank we found out he had ich. I decided to go with the ich management route as I didn’t have the room or time to quarantine my fish. I purchased a 57watt uv steriliser which has worked magnificently and removed most of the spots to the point I struggle to find them on him but he still never comes out of his pvc pipe even when I’m feeding - I have to put the food into his mouth with my hands for him to be bothered to eat anything as he doesn’t track down the food even if it floats past him. When he does eat he only eats about half a prawn. Today I tried feeding him a yabby/crawfish and he had no interest which really worry’s me. All the other fish are fine except for the wrasse which I have seen flash a couple of times but it is eating and acting fine and has no sign of white spots.

Question time
Could there be anything else wrong with the puffer? Is there anything else I can use that’s reef safe I can add along side the uv steriliser to get the last of the ich. I was looking into using metroplex and focus added to there food to see if that helps. Is there some sort of reef safe multicure that cures ich and other possible diseases/parasites? I was also looking at poly lab medic but I would rather something that targets more than one disease/parasite in case it’s something along side the ich. Is h2O2 dosing also an option. I read that’s virtually the same as poly lab medic.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks

With eels and others mentioned, water quality in a 120g particularly ammonia and mainly nitrate should be verified as this appears to be bacterial.
What filtration method are you utilizing and what is your maintenance schedule?
What method of ich management did you apply and for puffer, hyposalinity more effective but won’t work with eel.
Quarantine may be essential to fixing this fish

 

[AydenLincoln]

He’s not a porcupine pufferfish from the didion family! He’s a burrfish which are naturally lighter in color at least that’s what the stock photos are/show and the scientific name is Tragulichthys jaculiferus. Was he ever darker? I don’t think he will get very dark at least compared to the long-spine porcupine puffer/didion holocanthus. In terms of diet I’d try offering him live foods to entice him such as live shrimp and small crabs. And the stress can cause him change colors. Hyposalinity/freshwater dip, ich management which can be a uv sterilizer and a good diet/food soak, but metroplex and kanaplex etc. aren’t 100% invert/reef safe. But you could try and soak it in his food.

 

[Pickle_soup]

I am not a fan of UV sterilizers. I don't think they work for the most part. And no, it can't eradicate ich that is on your fish. Sure, it can manage it for the time being, but that always leaves you with a possibility of an explosion. IMHO, the best way to get rid of ich is to qt the fish, and let the tank go fallow for 76 days. If you have this option, I would take it. I have done it 7 years ago, and my tangs are happy that I did. QT your new additions. Otherwise, you will always have ich and stress of adding a new fish, which could lead to tank wipeout.

 

[Lil Puff]

With eels and others mentioned, water quality in a 120g particularly ammonia and mainly nitrate should be verified as this appears to be bacterial.
What filtration method are you utilizing and what is your maintenance schedule?
What method of ich management did you apply and for puffer, hyposalinity more effective but won’t work with eel.
Quarantine may be essential to fixing this fish

Phosphate - 0.10ppm (Hanna checker)
Nitrate - 100ppm (Salifert test kit)
Ph - 8.3

For filtration, I am running a protein skimmer, filter sock, bio balls, algae reactor, and gfo in a media reactor on and off depending on where my phosphates are at. I started dosing nopox yesterday due to the high nitrates and added chaeto gro as my chaeto wasn't growing.

I would rather stay away from quarantining as every time I have done that in the past all my stock gets wiped out. This has happened twice. The fish that never had the disease before and were doing fine in the dt ended up catching whatever the diseased fish had in the qt and dying. Could be the stress of being chased around by a net for a few hours and then added to a tiny tank that's making them vulnerable to disease, I'm not sure. I also don't really have the money to set up another quarantine as I'm only 17 years old.

Is there anything other than quarantining that you can suggest?
What makes you think it's bacterial?
Are there any reef safe bacterial medications out there?

 

[Lil Puff]

He’s not a porcupine pufferfish from the didion family! He’s a burrfish which are naturally lighter in color at least that’s what the stock photos are/show and the scientific name is Tragulichthys jaculiferus. Was he ever darker? I don’t think he will get very dark at least compared to the long-spine porcupine puffer/didion holocanthus. In terms of diet I’d try offering him live foods to entice him such as live shrimp and small crabs. And the stress can cause him change colors. Hyposalinity/freshwater dip, ich management which can be a uv sterilizer and a good diet/food soak, but metroplex and kanaplex etc. aren’t 100% invert/reef safe. But you could try and soak it in his food.

Thanks for the info!

I tried feeding him a live crawfish/yabby but he had absolutely no interest in. I also thought it was the stress that was making him change colour as sometimes he changes back to his normal colour so thanks for clarifying! I have been using a 57 watt uv sterilizer and getting him to eat vitamin-soaked shrimp/prawns whenever he will take them as he doesn't like the taste of the vitamins. Are there any other reef safe medications you can suggest?

 

[AydenLincoln]

Thanks for the info!

I tried feeding him a live crawfish/yabby but he had absolutely no interest in. I also thought it was the stress that was making him change colour as sometimes he changes back to his normal colour so thanks for clarifying! I have been using a 57 watt uv sterilizer and getting him to eat vitamin-soaked shrimp/prawns whenever he will take them as he doesn't like the taste of the vitamins. Are there any other reef safe medications you can suggest?

No not for ich because the only tried and true method to eradicate it is to treat with cooper in a quarantine tank and run the tank fallow for 76 days. The rest is what I call Russian roulette and one major stressor or incident could undo everything.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi, I have a 120 gallon predator reef with the following fish:

Enigmatic moray eel
White eyed moray eel
Clarkii clownfish
Wrasse
Parrot fish
Porcupine pufferfish

When I purchased the puffer online he arrived unwell and when I added him to the tank we found out he had ich. I decided to go with the ich management route as I didn’t have the room or time to quarantine my fish. I purchased a 57watt uv steriliser which has worked magnificently and removed most of the spots to the point I struggle to find them on him but he still never comes out of his pvc pipe even when I’m feeding - I have to put the food into his mouth with my hands for him to be bothered to eat anything as he doesn’t track down the food even if it floats past him. When he does eat he only eats about half a prawn. Today I tried feeding him a yabby/crawfish and he had no interest which really worry’s me. All the other fish are fine except for the wrasse which I have seen flash a couple of times but it is eating and acting fine and has no sign of white spots.

Question time
Could there be anything else wrong with the puffer? Is there anything else I can use that’s reef safe I can add along side the uv steriliser to get the last of the ich. I was looking into using metroplex and focus added to there food to see if that helps. Is there some sort of reef safe multicure that cures ich and other possible diseases/parasites? I was also looking at poly lab medic but I would rather something that targets more than one disease/parasite in case it’s something along side the ich. Is h2O2 dosing also an option. I read that’s virtually the same as poly lab medic.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks

I've never kept that species of porcupine, but it should be similar to others in the family.

I could not get a good sense of the timeline here - how long have you had the puffer?

All I can see in the photo is in the second one, its skin looks a bit cloudy. Long term ich can cause that, but I doubt that is the case as I cannot see that happening without the parrotfish also showing ich spots.

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

Phosphate - 0.10ppm (Hanna checker)
Nitrate - 100ppm (Salifert test kit)
Ph - 8.3

For filtration, I am running a protein skimmer, filter sock, bio balls, algae reactor, and gfo in a media reactor on and off depending on where my phosphates are at. I started dosing nopox yesterday due to the high nitrates and added chaeto gro as my chaeto wasn't growing.

I would rather stay away from quarantining as every time I have done that in the past all my stock gets wiped out. This has happened twice. The fish that never had the disease before and were doing fine in the dt ended up catching whatever the diseased fish had in the qt and dying. Could be the stress of being chased around by a net for a few hours and then added to a tiny tank that's making them vulnerable to disease, I'm not sure. I also don't really have the money to set up another quarantine as I'm only 17 years old.

Is there anything other than quarantining that you can suggest?
What makes you think it's bacterial?
Are there any reef safe bacterial medications out there?

Your nitrate is 100??
NoPox is an alternative and not solution to nitrates as its basically vodka dosing. Water changes and clean filters are the course to take . GFO more effective with phosphates. Reef safe bacterial would be ruby Rally Pro but takes longer to work at times. Ich is often a trigger but the peeling suggests bacterial or other skin irritation.
With the parrotfish having no issues, I would highly recommend Quarantining to isolate the fish despite your past bad experiences.

 

[jmichaelh7]

It doesn’t take much to start a quarantine buddy.

Hanna checker , copper , Seachem test kit and some air pumps in a old 20g

 

[jda]

I know that people say that no3 doesn't matter to fish, but I have had more vibrant healthy fish with lower numbers. This could be anecdotal.

IMO, the best thing for ich management is a healthy biome with lots of diverse microfauna and critters than can eat disease tomonts when they fall off of the fish for that part of the lifecycle. Many of these inverts will not do well with nitrate of 100. This is not eradication, but is pretty effective control. This is not a fast solution, so sorry... but there are not really any fast solutions.

For management, I would get your no3 down under 10 or 20 and get a small pack of live rock to seed your tank with worms, starfish, pods, etc. Make those disease tomonts fight for their lives in the rocks and substrate.

Carbon dosing with a good skimmer is easy and effective. Sugar works plenty fine and is pure and cheap. Vodka and vinegar work too.

 

[Lil Puff]

Your nitrate is 100??
NoPox is an alternative and not solution to nitrates as its basically vodka dosing. Water changes and clean filters are the course to take . GFO more effective with phosphates. Reef safe bacterial would be ruby Rally Pro but takes longer to work at times. Ich is often a trigger but the peeling suggests bacterial or other skin irritation.
With the parrotfish having no issues, I would highly recommend Quarantining to isolate the fish despite your past bad experiences.

Hi thanks for the info about the nopox! I will keep on top of my water changes as well. Also the puffers skin is not peeling at all and only looks that way occasionally when he is stressed. Sort of how fox faces turn black when they sleep. As you can see in these photos I just took his skin is no longer blotchy and is a solid colour. If I quarantine him what medication should I add?

 

[Lil Puff]

I know that people say that no3 doesn't matter to fish, but I have had more vibrant healthy fish with lower numbers. This could be anecdotal.

IMO, the best thing for ich management is a healthy biome with lots of diverse microfauna and critters than can eat disease tomonts when they fall off of the fish for that part of the lifecycle. Many of these inverts will not do well with nitrate of 100. This is not eradication, but is pretty effective control. This is not a fast solution, so sorry... but there are not really any fast solutions.

For management, I would get your no3 down under 10 or 20 and get a small pack of live rock to seed your tank with worms, starfish, pods, etc. Make those disease tomonts fight for their lives in the rocks and substrate.

Carbon dosing with a good skimmer is easy and effective. Sugar works plenty fine and is pure and cheap. Vodka and vinegar work too.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi thanks for the info about the nopox! I will keep on top of my water changes as well. Also the puffers skin is not peeling at all and only looks that way occasionally when he is stressed. Sort of how fox faces turn black when they sleep. As you can see in these photos I just took his skin is no longer blotchy and is a solid colour. If I quarantine him what medication should I add?

Looks much better. Best action is maintaining good water quality and oxygen. Adding an airstone never hurts, If you get overspray from airstone- place saran wrap above it to contain the fine mist.
Feed foods lower in fat and No feeder fish which can cause issues with health.

 

[Lil Puff]

I've never kept that species of porcupine, but it should be similar to others in the family.

I could not get a good sense of the timeline here - how long have you had the puffer?

All I can see in the photo is in the second one, its skin looks a bit cloudy. Long term ich can cause that, but I doubt that is the case as I cannot see that happening without the parrotfish also showing ich spots.

Jay

I’ve had the puffer just over three months. He’s skin is sometimes like that because he is stressed I think. Like fox faces turn black. These are photos of him now I just took and he isn't blotchy anymore.

Some photos of the other fish

 

[Lil Puff]

Looks much better. Best action is maintaining good water quality and oxygen. Adding an airstone never hurts, If you get overspray from airstone- place saran wrap above it to contain the fine mist.
Feed foods lower in fat and No feeder fish which can cause issues with health.

What do you think the reason for him hiding and not eating is? Could it be the nitrates? What would be te best course of action to get him out of hiding? Thanks for helping once again!

 

[vetteguy53081]

What do you think the reason for him hiding and not eating is? Could it be the nitrates? What would be te best course of action to get him out of hiding? Thanks for helping once again!

Can be water quality, intimidation from another tank mates, elevated temp or salinity and lighting too bright.
Only if " fish could talk. . . LOL "