Ich or velvet?

[N11morales]

Got home powder blue has ich or velvet not sure. Has many many raised bumps on skin. Is this velvet?

No rapid breathing and still eating well.

I recently on Saturday dosed prazipro into the system cause all my fish were flashing every couple min 5-10 min. Not bad but against the sand so I thought flukes. 0 white spots on any fish.

Today when I got home powder blue and orange shoulder has spots.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Got home powder blue has ich or velvet not sure. Has many many raised bumps on skin. Is this velvet?

No rapid breathing and still eating well.

I recently on Saturday dosed prazipro into the system cause all my fish were flashing every couple min 5-10 min. Not bad but against the sand so I thought flukes. 0 white spots on any fish.

Today when I got home powder blue and orange shoulder has spots.

That’s marine ich, Cryptocaryon. Best treatment is coppersafe at 2.25 ppm or hyposalinity at 1.009 - neither treatment can be used with invertebrates or corals present.

 

[N11morales]

That’s marine ich, Cryptocaryon. Best treatment is coppersafe at 2.25 ppm or hyposalinity at 1.009 - neither treatment can be used with invertebrates or corals present.

i thought so. I've researched before but tank needs to be fallow for 34 days i believe or is it 72?

I have A LOT of fish. Whats the best way to qt all of them? A. get a large q system and put them all in B. get multiple set ups and seperate large and small fish?

How about wrasses. I have cleaner wrasse, 2 yellow coris, adorned, and triplespot wrasse. Would I do hyposalinity with them? they dont tolerate copper well right?


Fish:
3 small biota yellow tangs
powder blue
maculiceps
orange shoulder
desjardini
magnificent foxface

6 lyretail anthias
2 clownfish
midas blenny
longnose hawkfish
2 red dragonets
diamond goby
(goby not sure type)
the 5 wrasses listed above

 

[W31Olds]

You do have a lot of fish. I don't think one large tank or Tub would be optimal. Your Tangs will likely fight. I would add some 40 Gallon Breeders to your QT arsenal or a 60 Gallon Breeder for large Tangs. I have 2 40's, a 60, and 2 20 Gallons that I can use in a pinch. I would separate the Tangs.

 

[N11morales]

You do have a lot of fish. I don't think one large tank or Tub would be optimal. Your Tangs will likely fight. I would add some 40 Gallon Breeders to your QT arsenal or a 60 Gallon Breeder for large Tangs. I have 2 40's, a 60, and 2 20 Gallons that I can use in a pinch. I would separate the Tangs.

How fast do I need to qt the fish? I only have a 30g qt right now. Would need to locate more tanks.

I do have selcon, vitachem, and garlic. If I increase feeding will that help them for now?

 

[vetteguy53081]

How fast do I need to qt the fish? I only have a 30g qt right now. Would need to locate more tanks.

I do have selcon, vitachem, and garlic. If I increase feeding will that help them for now?

Tub is best bet for the number of fish you have and vitamins will do nothing other than providing immunity boosters. As mentioned , best bet is coppersafe at 2.25 measured with a hanna brand cooer test kit and an air stone added. Some of the fish mentioned may not do well with hyposalinity.

 

[W31Olds]

The only problem I have with Tubs, Storage Bins, Trash Containers, etc. is you really can see much when observing from above. But you don't have a lot of time so will they work in a pinch and cheaper to setup overall. The reason I have so many is I need to setup a new Tank so picked up some off Facebook Marketplace.

 

[mcarroll]

How fast do I need to qt the fish? I only have a 30g qt right now. Would need to locate more tanks.

I do have selcon, vitachem, and garlic. If I increase feeding will that help them for now?

Hopefully you've already been using all those vitamins and stuff....the past is when they were needed. :)

Is the display completely unprotected at the moment?

(Meaning: no UV, no micron filtration and no reef safe additives.)

Think of each bump in the pic as a bomb about to go off that's filled with more Crypto.

If you have no protection at all, your tank is very soon (<4 days) going to be FILLED with crypto swarmers.....your fishes' immune systems will not withstand more than a day or few of that assault.

IMO if there's any delay (>24 hours) in setting up your intended treatment system then roll out strong micron filtration.....+UV if you have the budget. Seems like some Ruby Reef would be well placed too:


These things will definitely make a difference in how long your fish can hold out....buying you time to get set up.

 

[winxp_man]

i thought so. I've researched before but tank needs to be fallow for 34 days i believe or is it 72?

60 days new protocol. Some have said they had success with in 6 weeks but temps where ran at 81-82*.

Running fallow as we speak. I’m at 81-82 range. Corals are doing good.

As for copper timing. I will say this. The sooner the better for the fish. BUT ich does have some lead way on killing fish unlike velvet.

Took out all 9 of my fish and put them directly into 2.35-2.40 copper QT. I run 20 long with two fluval ac50 HOB filters and only the bio filter they come with, usually blue in color. Dump bacteria and do a WC every day depending on the tank load. After about a week or two bacteria seems catch up. And less WC are required. More like every two-three days to keep fish in clean water. Yes it suck but this will get the fish in good health.

No rocks or sand in the QT tank. A small bowl if you have wrasse.

I have 22 fish in QT for tanks. Two 10 g, one 20 long an a JBJ 65 as a temp QT. The Jbj is housing my bigger tangs and angels.

I also add in small UV units and it keeps the water crystal clear.

QT should be ran for 30 days. As stated by all the guys here, at 2.25 ppm min, and at 2.50 max and is a Hanna HR copper tester.

Keep the tanks as clean as possible.



Sample pic of one of the tanks.

The light I use, because it had a super white to spot issues should they arise.

https://a.co/d/0cUQel3e

 

[winxp_man]

The only problem I have with Tubs, Storage Bins, Trash Containers, etc. is you really can see much when observing from above. But you don't have a lot of time so will they work in a pinch and cheaper to setup overall. The reason I have so many is I need to setup a new Tank so picked up some off Facebook Marketplace.

This is why I only run glass breeder type tanks.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

i thought so. I've researched before but tank needs to be fallow for 34 days i believe or is it 72?

I have A LOT of fish. Whats the best way to qt all of them? A. get a large q system and put them all in B. get multiple set ups and seperate large and small fish?

How about wrasses. I have cleaner wrasse, 2 yellow coris, adorned, and triplespot wrasse. Would I do hyposalinity with them? they dont tolerate copper well right?


Fish:
3 small biota yellow tangs
powder blue
maculiceps
orange shoulder
desjardini
magnificent foxface

6 lyretail anthias
2 clownfish
midas blenny
longnose hawkfish
2 red dragonets
diamond goby
(goby not sure type)
the 5 wrasses listed above

Let's take a step back here - first thing, you said the orange shoulder also had spots, that pushed me into diagnosing ich over mucus plugs or some other benign issue. Are any other fish showing spots today? Have the spots on the original two fish changed in location or numbers? The reason that I'm drilling down on the diagnosis here is that your circumstances are going to make it REALLY difficult to treat this if indeed it is ich.

Going with the ich diagnosis - skip all the "ich management" ideas like UV, mild chemicals, etc. They rarely work, and virtually never work when powder tangs are involved. These ideas just *sound* attractive because it seems easier to do.....

I agree, a tub to hold these fish lacks lateral viewing that makes monitoring the disease difficult. However, tubs are a LOT cheaper.

You have a LOT of fish, you might consider moving all of the invertebrates/corals out and running the fish in hyposalinity in the tank they are in. It might be easier....

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hyposalinity.880546/

 

[winxp_man]

Let's take a step back here - first thing, you said the orange shoulder also had spots, that pushed me into diagnosing ich over mucus plugs or some other benign issue. Are any other fish showing spots today? Have the spots on the original two fish changed in location or numbers? The reason that I'm drilling down on the diagnosis here is that your circumstances are going to make it REALLY difficult to treat this if indeed it is ich.

Going with the ich diagnosis - skip all the "ich management" ideas like UV, mild chemicals, etc. They rarely work, and virtually never work when powder tangs are involved. These ideas just *sound* attractive because it seems easier to do.....

I agree, a tub to hold these fish lacks lateral viewing that makes monitoring the disease difficult. However, tubs are a LOT cheaper.

You have a LOT of fish, you might consider moving all of the invertebrates/corals out and running the fish in hyposalinity in the tank they are in. It might be easier....

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hyposalinity.880546/

Here in CA I get the petco breeder tanks super cheap. Best one yet was a 75 for $119!! Out the door haha.

 

[N11morales]

Let's take a step back here - first thing, you said the orange shoulder also had spots, that pushed me into diagnosing ich over mucus plugs or some other benign issue. Are any other fish showing spots today? Have the spots on the original two fish changed in location or numbers? The reason that I'm drilling down on the diagnosis here is that your circumstances are going to make it REALLY difficult to treat this if indeed it is ich.

Going with the ich diagnosis - skip all the "ich management" ideas like UV, mild chemicals, etc. They rarely work, and virtually never work when powder tangs are involved. These ideas just *sound* attractive because it seems easier to do.....

I agree, a tub to hold these fish lacks lateral viewing that makes monitoring the disease difficult. However, tubs are a LOT cheaper.

You have a LOT of fish, you might consider moving all of the invertebrates/corals out and running the fish in hyposalinity in the tank they are in. It might be easier....

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hyposalinity.880546/

Yeah I thought about it but I have a lot of sps and lps corals. No where to put them so best to try and remove all the fish.

 

[W31Olds]

That's the dilemma with large mixed reef tanks. Catching all the fish and then having the QT Tank space available to treat/hold them for many weeks. Then there's the added expense and the required space in your home to setup it all up. You also have dragonets so I hope they will eat pellets and frozen food. I guess I'm lucky that mine will because my POD population is lower than I'd like.

 

[N11morales]

That's the dilemma with large mixed reef tanks. Catching all the fish and then having the QT Tank space available to treat/hold them for many weeks. Then there's the added expense and the required space in your home to setup it all up. You also have dragonets so I hope they will eat pellets and frozen food. I guess I'm lucky that mine will because my POD population is lower than I'd like.

Yeah luckily my pair does eat pellets and frozen mysis.

 

[Puggz]

While you're at it, its a good time to look back and see what caused all this. Not to pile on as you certainly have your hands full, what you're doing can't be fun and you'll want to prevent it going forward. I would suggest that you get a few cheap used tanks with HOBS. A large air pump can be split over several tanks. Some of your fish may be more sensitive to Cu. Hypo salinity and higher temps will speed things up.

Is this a FISH ONLY tank? It may be easier to remove all the live rock (place in large tubs and aerate) and treat the entire tank. Maybe a dummy idea and i'll let the experts weigh in.

 

[mcarroll]

Let's take a step back here - first thing, you said the orange shoulder also had spots, that pushed me into diagnosing ich over mucus plugs or some other benign issue. Are any other fish showing spots today? Have the spots on the original two fish changed in location or numbers? The reason that I'm drilling down on the diagnosis here is that your circumstances are going to make it REALLY difficult to treat this if indeed it is ich.

@N11morales just wanted to make sure you didn't miss this part?

 

[N11morales]

@N11morales just wanted to make sure you didn't miss this part?

Oh I did miss this ty. @Jay Hemdal i don’t believe the spots on the powder blue have changed or increased. I did notice today though magnificent Foxface has 2 dots on its side as well.

Powder blue is still covered in them. Orange shoulder has less than before.

All wrasses, Anthias, other tangs, other fish.

Nothing so far but currently it’s 3 fish now instead of 2.

All are eating well. No rapid breathing, little bit of flashing though from the 3 fish with white spots.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Oh I did miss this ty. @Jay Hemdal i don’t believe the spots on the powder blue have changed or increased. I did notice today though magnificent Foxface has 2 dots on its side as well.

Powder blue is still covered in them. Orange shoulder has less than before.

All wrasses, Anthias, other tangs, other fish.

Nothing so far but currently it’s 3 fish now instead of 2.

All are eating well. No rapid breathing, little bit of flashing though from the 3 fish with white spots.

If the spots are in the same numbers, in the same location day to day, this is less likely to be ich. Also, if none of the spots are on the soft portions of the fins, it is less likely to be ich.

Mucus plugs are more likely if it isn’t ich. Those can be caused by a variety of things, including flukes.

 

[W31Olds]

There does seem to be some spots on the Top Front Dorsal Fin of the Powder in first pic.