Ich Starting in Large System

[thomas_neil]

Hey All,

It appears that I might have ich starting to show on a couple of my tangs (gold rim and Atlantic blue).

I plan on attempting to get them out of my 300 with a nyos trap but that may take a few days for them to get used to it. I already have my 20 gallon and my 10 gallon QTs ready to go with copper, but my main concern is how is this going to affect my other fish. I have about 30 fish total in the system and don’t currently have the capacity to QT all of them. Should I look at trying to QT all fish in the system or just the affected ones and keep an eye on all the other fish.

I’ll try to get some pictures during feeding time of the 2 I’m concerned about.

 

[thomas_neil]

Was able to get a couple photos

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey All,

It appears that I might have ich starting to show on a couple of my tangs (gold rim and Atlantic blue).

I plan on attempting to get them out of my 300 with a nyos trap but that may take a few days for them to get used to it. I already have my 20 gallon and my 10 gallon QTs ready to go with copper, but my main concern is how is this going to affect my other fish. I have about 30 fish total in the system and don’t currently have the capacity to QT all of them. Should I look at trying to QT all fish in the system or just the affected ones and keep an eye on all the other fish.

I’ll try to get some pictures during feeding time of the 2 I’m concerned about.

That does look like a moderate case of ich on those tangs.

Ich can be unpredictable, and all exposed fish really should be treated. If you don’t, you may see outbreaks happening again and again. Then, if any infection reaches the tipping point, you’ll start to lose fish.

I don’t see many/any invertebrates in the tank. Have you considered running your DT in hyposalinity?

 

[Tripod1404]

In my opinion, unless you are pulling out all 30 fish, there is not point in pulling out the tangs. They will be infected once again as soon as they return to the DT.

So the options are

1- not pulling any fish and trying out the “build immunity” approach.

2- Try an effective in DT treatment.

3- Pull out and medicate all fish and leave the DT fishless to break itch’s life cycle.

 

[vetteguy53081]

There is no immunity approach especially with tangs which are susceptible to ich. I find a standard trap highly effective as I have a 100% effective catch rate, I have a nyos also and i have 5% success rate which I do not like this trap.There really is no effective reef safe treatment as its also safe for parasites. The most effective method is use of Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25 for a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored with a Hanna Brand copper test kit- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone. All other fish in with it should also be removed as they have also been exposed to the parasites and placed in quarantine tank.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off. Inverts and coral can remain in the display (not treatment) tank during fallow period.
A quarantine tank can be as simple as a tank from a second hand store, a Rubbermaid type tub or a starter kit from Walmart which most of the needed essentials.

 

[thomas_neil]

That does look like a moderate case of ich on those tangs.

Ich can be unpredictable, and all exposed fish really should be treated. If you don’t, you may see outbreaks happening again and again. Then, if any infection reaches the tipping point, you’ll start to lose fish.

I don’t see many/any invertebrates in the tank. Have you considered running your DT in hyposalinity?

I do have quite a few snails, coupe hermits, conch, brittle stars. Thankfully no coral yet so I could run at hypo salinity and take the hit on the couple inverts I do have, could potentially snag as many out as I can and throw them in a spare tank laying around to try to keep some alive.

How low of a salinity would I need to run, I could drop it over the next couple days while I try to catch them to get them into copper.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I do have quite a few snails, coupe hermits, conch, brittle stars. Thankfully no coral yet so I could run at hypo salinity and take the hit on the couple inverts I do have, could potentially snag as many out as I can and throw them in a spare tank laying around to try to keep some alive.

How low of a salinity would I need to run, I could drop it over the next couple days while I try to catch them to get them into copper.

Sounds like your tank is a good candidate for hypo. Here are the instructions for that:

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2024 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

I do have quite a few snails, coupe hermits, conch, brittle stars. Thankfully no coral yet so I could run at hypo salinity and take the hit on the couple inverts I do have, could potentially snag as many out as I can and throw them in a spare tank laying around to try to keep some alive.

How low of a salinity would I need to run, I could drop it over the next couple days while I try to catch them to get them into copper.

In that case yes and at 1.009

 

[winxp_man]

I do have quite a few snails, coupe hermits, conch, brittle stars. Thankfully no coral yet so I could run at hypo salinity and take the hit on the couple inverts I do have, could potentially snag as many out as I can and throw them in a spare tank laying around to try to keep some alive.

How low of a salinity would I need to run, I could drop it over the next couple days while I try to catch them to get them into copper.

If you have a die off keep an eye out on ammonia. If possible get as many of the inverts out as possible. The way I would do that is with silver sides. Most of them are scavengers so they will haul their rears to get to the dead silver side. Also not a whole silver side just a small piece. They will have the gathering of a life time and easy pickings.

The tang you posted is a powder brown by the way. Nice fish has a few myself now I have a gold rim.


As for QT I have yet to lose a fish that input into QT at copper levels of 2.3-2.4ppm. It’s been the opposite got a few clowns recently that I know had ich. And directly into 2.36 copper, also a flame and a black cap baslet and the fast breathing I saw for the first few days stopped on day two. Scrapings showed ich as I suspected.

 

[winxp_man]

I do have quite a few snails, coupe hermits, conch, brittle stars. Thankfully no coral yet so I could run at hypo salinity and take the hit on the couple inverts I do have, could potentially snag as many out as I can and throw them in a spare tank laying around to try to keep some alive.

How low of a salinity would I need to run, I could drop it over the next couple days while I try to catch them to get them into copper.

If you’re going to run QT and a 60 day fallow tank, no reason to even do anything in the realm of hypo. If you will run hypo then no need for QT. Follow Jay, and Vettes protocol.

 

[vetteguy53081]

If you have a die off keep an eye out on ammonia. If possible get as many of the inverts out as possible. The way I would do that is with silver sides. Most of them are scavengers so they will haul their rears to get to the dead silver side. Also not a whole silver side just a small piece. They will have the gathering of a life time and easy pickings.

The tang you posted is a powder brown by the way. Nice fish has a few myself now I have a gold rim.


As for QT I have yet to lose a fish that input into QT at copper levels of 2.3-2.4ppm. It’s been the opposite got a few clowns recently that I know had ich. And directly into 2.36 copper, also a flame and a black cap baslet and the fast breathing I saw for the first few days stopped on day two. Scrapings showed ich as I suspected.

2.25ppm to also assist with margin of error. This 2.36 is not a target and can be confusing especially to someone using coppersafe for the first time

 

[winxp_man]

2.25ppm to also assist with margin of error. This 2.36 is not a target and can be confusing especially to someone using coppersafe for the first time

Margin of error can go both ways down or up. 2.25 is min listed on both copper power and copper safe. A Hanna reader can have error within 5% of the reading, from what I see in the readers documentation. Are you really at 2.25? If you’re on the downside of the error factor? And is it not 2.5ppm max?

If margin of error is in reference to how someone tests, well can make the instructions more basic then what Hanna has posted in the reader instruction manual. I don’t know how that will help in any case.

I’m just stating that I have put plenty of fish in direct 2.36 ppm with no losses. This is to counter the ideas that we have seen some here in R2R and many other forums or online communities talking about ramping up copper. Many think fish will die in copper power or safe if you just put them in therapeutic levels right away.

 

[thomas_neil]

So tomorrow morning is going to be my final water change to get it to hypo salinity but have a question on my hydrometer. Since it’s calibrated for 20C and my water is at 78F do I need to drop it lower than 1.009 to account for the water temperature difference.

I don’t want to drop it to low but also don’t want to not reach the sweet spot that kills the ick.

 

[winxp_man]

So tomorrow morning is going to be my final water change to get it to hypo salinity but have a question on my hydrometer. Since it’s calibrated for 20C and my water is at 78F do I need to drop it lower than 1.009 to account for the water temperature difference.

I don’t want to drop it to low but also don’t want to not reach the sweet spot that kills the ick.

Your SG value will be around 1.0103

Calibration 68
Actual Temp 78

 

[thomas_neil]

Just wanted to get a quick update, have been running hypo salinity for about a week not and seems like all signs of ich are gone. Will keep it up for the full 30 days and may even go 45 days just to make sure everything is killed off. The first couple days where rough with ammonia spikes but everything seems to have stabilized out now. Only losses where the gold rim (maybe powder brown), all anthies except 1 survivor and my favorite fish the orange shoulder tang. Surprisingly the Atlantic blue who had it the worst is completely clear now and only signs he had it is some fins rot.

I was able to save some of the clean up crew and all my chato from the fuge and have that in a separate tank and will keep that fallow for 90 days.

I plan on replacing the orange shoulder and the anthias at some point once I get the salinity back up but plan on following a stricter QT process. Everything went through 30 days in copper at around 2.25 but I’m wondering if I got a bad batch of Hanna reagent. When I get back to adding new fish I’m gonna toss the older reagent and buy new. Also considering doing 30 days copper and then 30 days with just salt water in QT for observation so I can ensure this doesn’t happen again.

Also wanted to add that I’ve been adding metroplex and focus to my food and letting it soar for about 45 minutes. Not sure if that’s been helping but was recommended by my LFS.

 

[mfinn]

I plan on replacing the orange shoulder and the anthias at some point once I get the salinity back up but plan on following a stricter QT process. Everything went through 30 days in copper at around 2.25 but I’m wondering if I got a bad batch of Hanna reagent. When I get back to adding new fish I’m gonna toss the older reagent and buy new. Also considering doing 30 days copper and then 30 days with just salt water in QT for observation so I can ensure this doesn’t happen again.

You might want to consider going through Dr Reef for new fish additions.
Fully quarantined fish.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Just wanted to get a quick update, have been running hypo salinity for about a week not and seems like all signs of ich are gone. Will keep it up for the full 30 days and may even go 45 days just to make sure everything is killed off. The first couple days where rough with ammonia spikes but everything seems to have stabilized out now. Only losses where the gold rim (maybe powder brown), all anthies except 1 survivor and my favorite fish the orange shoulder tang. Surprisingly the Atlantic blue who had it the worst is completely clear now and only signs he had it is some fins rot.

I was able to save some of the clean up crew and all my chato from the fuge and have that in a separate tank and will keep that fallow for 90 days.

I plan on replacing the orange shoulder and the anthias at some point once I get the salinity back up but plan on following a stricter QT process. Everything went through 30 days in copper at around 2.25 but I’m wondering if I got a bad batch of Hanna reagent. When I get back to adding new fish I’m gonna toss the older reagent and buy new. Also considering doing 30 days copper and then 30 days with just salt water in QT for observation so I can ensure this doesn’t happen again.

Also wanted to add that I’ve been adding metroplex and focus to my food and letting it soar for about 45 minutes. Not sure if that’s been helping but was recommended by my LFS.

Soaking food in metroplex is a bad idea unless you weigh it out and dose it properly. It needs to be 1% by weight in the food. Making it up into gelatin diet is the best way to do this do that it doesn’t rinse off.