ICP-analysis results high tin

[xRob]

I think this thread may have answered why I'm losing most/all of my acros/stylo/hystrix. One of my torches has also been sulking for a few weeks now. My ATI ICP test shows ~10µg/l of tin. There is none present in my RO so it must be coming from somewhere else. I've checked most of my pumps for any sign of rust and found nothing so far. I have an aqua medic titanium heater which also has no signs of rust. I'm almost certain that I haven't dropped anything metal in the tank/sump. What else is there to check?

Are metasorb/poly filter type products definitely effective at removing tin?

Also have low levels of aluminium - 4.6µg/l - Will the above methods tackle this too?

 

[User1]

I think this thread may have answered why I'm losing most/all of my acros/stylo/hystrix. One of my torches has also been sulking for a few weeks now. My ATI ICP test shows ~10µg/l of tin. There is none present in my RO so it must be coming from somewhere else. I've checked most of my pumps for any sign of rust and found nothing so far. I have an aqua medic titanium heater which also has no signs of rust. I'm almost certain that I haven't dropped anything metal in the tank/sump. What else is there to check?

Are metasorb/poly filter type products definitely effective at removing tin?

Also have low levels of aluminium - 4.6µg/l - Will the above methods tackle this too?

Hi - it could be. I'm honestly still trying to understand the impacts of Tin and Zinc in the ATI reports/results. I also had high Tin being reported and super high Zinc. My hammer colonies that previously grew unchecked exceeding 12" are not mostly gone with only one remaining and appearing to recover although pale. I've since done three water changes and will do another tomorrow hoping to remove both tin/zinc. I've also added Two Little Fishes MetaSorb hoping that will pull some of it out. I do know since doing the water changes that quick back to back everything seems to be doing better.

I'm going to send off another ATI sample on Monday. Will be interesting to compare the two.

 

[xRob]

Hi - it could be. I'm honestly still trying to understand the impacts of Tin and Zinc in the ATI reports/results. I also had high Tin being reported and super high Zinc. My hammer colonies that previously grew unchecked exceeding 12" are not mostly gone with only one remaining and appearing to recover although pale. I've since done three water changes and will do another tomorrow hoping to remove both tin/zinc. I've also added Two Little Fishes MetaSorb hoping that will pull some of it out. I do know since doing the water changes that quick back to back everything seems to be doing better.

I'm going to send off another ATI sample on Monday. Will be interesting to compare the two.

I think I'm going to start with regular small water changes for now, hopefully that will help. I would definitely be interested in knowing if metasorb has had any effect (though I guess it won't be possible to tell if you're also water changing). I noticed today that my gold torch has some tissue loss so whatever the problem in my tank is it appears to be spreading to LPS as well .

 

[User1]

I will let you know, for sure. Like you noted though I sort of changed a couple things at the same time so won't know for sure which helped removed the problem (tin, zinc). I did do three water changes. Will do a 4th on Sunday. Each was about 20 gallons. I also added the metasorb which ran for 10 days. They suggested to remove it after the 10th. I also read that some magnets may yield high results with tin so I checked my Tunz glass cleaner, it was perfect, but removed. While I dislike adding and removing that from the tank due to the glass thickness I'm thinking it won't hurt. I also moved the two little fish magnet algae clip half way out of the water or completely removed it until I feed.

So I did a couple things for sure and hope tin and zinc is lower. Especially zinc. Anemones are looking brighter in red colors and hammers seem to be doing a bit more with regards to expanding or opening. I do have one colony that I think is a lost cause. I may move it one more time and see. Other than that I added a large snail assortment which pretty much cleaned up the various forms of algae that was growing. Plan is to package up the next test on Monday morning and drop in mail. That should get it to the distribution and out the door hopefully by Wed. Or I may just wait until after Thanksgiving.

 

[SudoGeeks]

Got my new test results back today after doing 3 weeks of 20% water changes my Tin is down to 14.86 ug/L from 24.85ug/L. Not sure if this means the source is still there or if I just didn't do enough water changes to remove it all.

http://lab.atiaquaristik.com/share/5021b1994335e8182521

 

[xRob]

Unfortunately I guess you won't know unless you stop the water changes for a bit and send another ICP. I'm currently experimenting with cuprisorb - It comes out tomorrow at which point I'll be sending an ICP to see if it's pulled the tin out. After that I suppose I'll need to wait a few weeks and then test again to see if more tin is present.

 

[TX_Punisher]

I’m also battling the same issue. No clue wheee it’s coming from.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Did you see my RODI results?

Silicon 3175 µg/l

I suspect the DI is completely spent on mine but no other elements were present so maybe not? I did read an article by Randy stating that he actually was dosing Si in his tank for a while and I have heard Si can be or is neutral charged so it's really difficult for DI resin to remove it. Maybe Randy can fill in the blanks and correct anything I have said that's incorrect.

Silica is often the highest concentration ion to get through an RO/DI, even when new, but also when depleting (because RO/DI does a relatively poorer job on it than other ions, and it is often high in tap water), so if you are thinking that is the source, there's no reason to assume problematic levels of other things are getting through. In a newly depleting DI, it may actually be higher than the tap water.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Got my new test results back today after doing 3 weeks of 20% water changes my Tin is down to 14.86 ug/L from 24.85ug/L. Not sure if this means the source is still there or if I just didn't do enough water changes to remove it all.

http://lab.atiaquaristik.com/share/5021b1994335e8182521

3 x 20% changes will only drop your 24.86 to 12.7 ppm, so the results seem as expected.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think this thread may have answered why I'm losing most/all of my acros/stylo/hystrix. One of my torches has also been sulking for a few weeks now. My ATI ICP test shows ~10µg/l of tin. There is none present in my RO so it must be coming from somewhere else. I've checked most of my pumps for any sign of rust and found nothing so far. I have an aqua medic titanium heater which also has no signs of rust. I'm almost certain that I haven't dropped anything metal in the tank/sump. What else is there to check?

Are metasorb/poly filter type products definitely effective at removing tin?

Also have low levels of aluminium - 4.6µg/l - Will the above methods tackle this too?

FWIW, a zinc object corroding will not be discolored the way iron turns orangish.

Tin may come from the glass itself (the float side is floated on molten tin) or PVC (it is sometimes added as a heat stabilizer).

 

[SudoGeeks]

FWIW, a zinc object corroding will not be discolored the way iron turns orangish.

Tin may come from the glass itself (the float side is floated on molten tin) or PVC (it is sometimes added as a heat stabilizer).

I did somewhat recently add a frag rack to my tank with PVC legs, I wonder if that could cause the spike in tin. I will keep doing water changes and see if tin stays gone. I presume if the tin came from the PVC, eventually it would all be removed from the water changes and stay gone where as if its from some other metallic object in the tank the concentration would keep rising back up.

 

[xRob]

FWIW, a zinc object corroding will not be discolored the way iron turns orangish.

Tin may come from the glass itself (the float side is floated on molten tin) or PVC (it is sometimes added as a heat stabilizer).

My tank had already been used when I got it, so doubt it's from the glass (and it's been running for well over a year now). However I did change my return pump flexi hose a couple of months ago so wonder if that is what caused it. Could an amount as high as 10ug in ~250 litres of water leach from a single piece of flexi hose?

 

[User1]

FWIW, a zinc object corroding will not be discolored the way iron turns orangish.

Tin may come from the glass itself (the float side is floated on molten tin) or PVC (it is sometimes added as a heat stabilizer).

This is interesting. So the suggestion or theory is that tin being reported by the ATI results could possibly be from the tank itself (glass) or possibly pvc used in plumbing? If so - is this something that would decline over time? And if so is there any high water mark that we should be worried about or other value that says not to worry and just watch over time?

My tank is recently cycled as of April and then I moved over my 40 breeder into it. I've never sent off any tests to ATI before. When I did a couple months back was the first time and the tin and zine was high with zinc being the worst. I've since done several water changes and will be sending off another sample. I'm just starting to wonder if tin and zinc numbers ATI or Triton report on are worth worrying about.

I say this because of the various threads I've read everyone is reporting high tin or zinc in theirs among other things more commonly related to real issues. That being salinity, nutrients, etc.

 

[TX_Punisher]

Oddly enough, I just received my results back on my 1.5 yo 750xxl and show 9.50 µg/l of tin and 3.11 µg/l of aluminum. Using Red Sea blue bucket salt. Had one rusty hose clamp and a few rusty hinges. Still inspecting 3 out of 6 pumps.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

Got my new test results back today after doing 3 weeks of 20% water changes my Tin is down to 14.86 ug/L from 24.85ug/L. Not sure if this means the source is still there or if I just didn't do enough water changes to remove it all.

http://lab.atiaquaristik.com/share/5021b1994335e8182521

The big change I see from your first test is the ionic balance has changed considerably with Sulphate, according to my method .

I welcome @Randy Holmes-Farley criticism of my approximate figures, & his input to whatever affect this would have on your system.

This is the ionic balance of seawater elements

This is my approximate calculation from your first test result

This is from your latest test

If you're wondering why I did this, read
Determining Ionic Balance Using ICP Test Results
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/determining-ionic-balance-using-icp-test-results.516452/

 

[shred5]

You have to pop the back off pumps to see sometimes. I had a submersible pump that was not sealed completly with epoxy and was rusting once. When I poped the back out it was really rusted. My polyfilters we turning a brown real fast so I knew something was up.

 

[SudoGeeks]

The big change I see from your first test is the ionic balance has changed considerably with Sulphate, according to my method .

I welcome @Randy Holmes-Farley criticism of my approximate figures, & his input to whatever affect this would have on your system.

This is the ionic balance of seawater elements

This is my approximate calculation from your first test result

This is from your latest test

If you're wondering why I did this, read
Determining Ionic Balance Using ICP Test Results

Is lower Sulphate good bad or indifferent?

 

[Scrubber_steve]

Is lower Sulphate good bad or indifferent?

Well the purpose of the Balling methods of dosing the major elements, & at least one of Randy's Recieps, is to maintain the appropiate level of sodium to chloride & to sulphate in particular (Ionic balance). I was thinking an ICP test should give all the appropiate data to be able to check this. I'd like @Randy Holmes-Farley input as to whether or not your higher sulphate level could have negatively affected you corals. I don't know myself. But I use Balling & I would be striving to keep them in balance as closely as reasonably possible.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

I found a more accurate guide for the element percentages if your interested & it changes your present percentages a bit.