ICP and Tin

[thabizness]

I have been testing high levels of tin in my reef for a very long time (years). My reef itself looks good but of course there is always room for improvement. I am wondering what steps to take next. Here is a quick recap of what I have done over the years.

Started ICP testing for my 180g. Had high tin result. Didn't worry much because the reef looks good. Growing SPS and LPS fine.

Continued periodic Triton testing showed tin increasing. Still didn't worry too much. Corals fine. Just thinking its one of those things that make you go "hmmmmmm...."

Corals started to show minor distress. Went thru all equipment. Replaced MP40 websides due to rusting. Replace all heaters just because. Replaced skimmer pump because cord was cracking at pump. Replaced old magdrive mixing pumps because of rusting screws w/ ehiem pump. Replaced algae scrapers.

Continued to get tin results in Triton tests. Corals would go from good, then a minor stn event - may loose a frag or two, then back to good. Cycle repeats over the years.

Did ICP-analysis.com test to confirm triton findings. This time I tested both reef and fresh saltwater from my mixing barrel. BOTH tested high tin.... AH-HA.... Time to concentrate on mixing barrel.

TDS from BRS 4 stage RODI w/ water saver is 0. I replaced all filters anyway except the RO membranes. I removed all the float switches from the mixing system. Mixed a new batch of 50g saltwater. Let sit for a few days. Sent ICP test. Latest results still show tin.

Now wondering what my next steps are. My RODI setup is water faucet-> solonoid->RODI->50g blue barrel->mixed by ehiem pump in barrel. A PMUP is used to pump water from 50g barrel to reef. TDS is 0 leaving RODI.

The 50g barrel is sourced from craigslist. I was told it held coffee but honestly who knows. I have had it since before I started testing so its always been there. Maybe tin has been absorbed in barrel but I would have thought it would be gone years later. I could replace this with a new unused 50g brute. I could replace the ehiem mixing pump. I could remove/replace solonoid but its before the RODI and water tests 0.

Thoughts?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You left out perhaps the single most important thing: how much tin are we talking about?

 

[thabizness]

Reef 6.452 ug/l, 8.052 ug/l, 8.204 ug/l, 14 ug/l, .04ppm
Fresh Saltwater .02ppm, .04ppm

triton = ug/l. icp-analysis.com = ppm

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Reef 6.452 ug/l, 8.052 ug/l, 8.204 ug/l, 14 ug/l, .04ppm
Fresh Saltwater .02ppm, .04ppm

triton = ug/l. icp-analysis.com = ppm

While it is impossible to say with certainty about the toxicity of trace metals with an ICP value alone (different chemical forms have different toxicity), those values are "borderline" in the sense that they are not as high as the folks I see who are reporting issues with their tanks (say, 20+ ug/L, I've seen levels more than 70 reported) and folks who apparently see no effects (a few ug/L or less).

The source maybe be PVC pipes, additives, or even the glass itself which is often made by floating on molten tin.

A number of folks have been successful in lowering tin using metal binding products such as cuprisorb and metasorb.

 

[thabizness]

I thought that too as far as source could be pvc, additives, or even the glass in the reef but now since I have tested it in the mixing barrel before going to the tank I am more concerned. There are no pipes, pvc, or glass in the mixing barrel after the RODI. I am not dosing any additives in the barrel. Just IO and RODI. I don't think its possible for tin to be in RODI water with 0 TDS. I have a BRS TDS meter on the output of the RODI. How could the tin be in the barrel?

I have tried cuprisorb and triton detox with no real success in removal.

 

[thabizness]

A few shots of the tanks.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do not have confidence in ICP analysis dot com, so I would be reluctant to assume the new salt water is the source without additional information.

That said, someone did have a rusting wing nut on a float switch in their RO/DI storage and that was releasing substantial metals.

Excessive tin is not coming from the effluent of the effluent of the RO/DI itself, unless it has metal pipe fittings after the DI.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

In fact, I see them report 0.02 ppm in a NSW sample (Hawaii) and 0.01 ppm in two others, so I suspect that sort of level may be noise in their test.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/did-i-pick-the-wrong-icp-testing-company.339369/

 

[thabizness]

Understand - and that's fair. I saw the review on them. Next step would be another test to confirm with Triton on the water barrel question.

I saw the thread on the float switch in the RO/DI storage and removed before the last test. No metal after rodi just a blue tubing from RO/DI to barrel.

 

[thabizness]

True...

In fact, I see them report 0.02 ppm in a NSW sample (Hawaii) and 0.01 ppm in two others, so I suspect that sort of level may be noise in their test.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/did-i-pick-the-wrong-icp-testing-company.339369/

 

[Brien]

First off, I've got to tip my hat to you for taking all those steps to try and resolve the high tin results.

I too have high Tin (Sn 3.151 µg/l 0,1 µg/l 3.05) but not as high as you.

Randy suggested MetaSorb UHC, which I just finished a 10-day cycle using. I'll try it again in the near future and at some point I'll do the ICP test again to see if it made any difference.

 

[Murraydar]

I used icp analysis for my first icp and it came back with extremely high tin. I couldnt grow even the easiest sps. It may have been a test error as randy said. I treated my tank for it anyways with cuprisorb, metasorb, and triton detox. I retested with triton and it came back with a zero tin reading.

Since then my sps are doing way better, seeing growth for the first time in over a year. Obviously I can't say for certain if it really was an issue with high tin as I didn't test with triton before treating the tank, but you may have luck with those products.