ICP High Aluminum help

[arking_mark]

@Randy Holmes-Farley

I Just got back my 1st Triton ICP test and the Aluminum was identified as high (165 micrograms/l). Reading through the threads, the only source I can think of maybe the Marinepure blocks I am using in my sump as several threads indicate that 'white' media may leach aluminum. Several questions:

1. Is 165 micrograms/l Al high?
2. Do you think Marinepure media leaches Al?
3. Will removing the Marinepure media (if it is the source) resolve the issue with my daily 1% water changes? If so, how long?
4. Do I need to take other actions?

Thanks in advance!

Other info:
- RODI water for top-off and fresh ASW
- Only used Neomarine and recently switch to TMP salt
- Kalk dosing (BRS Pharma)
- Carbon dosing (Nyos Zero)
- I do mix a ton of different foods (Seachem Marine Flakes, Panta Nouri Polyps, Reef Chili, dki Marine, Masstick, Freeze Dried Mysis, Nyos True Algae, Julian Sprung Sea Veggies)

 

[arking_mark]

One thing to note is that Marinpure put out a video discussing this and states that the ICP process doesn't distinguish between inert and free Al. So high Al may not be accurate...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The Marine Pure may well be the source, but I'm not sure that level is high enough to be an issue. In my tests, 250 ug/L was not enough to irritate corals, but 500 ug/L was.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

The Marine Pure may well be the source, but I'm not sure that level is high enough to be an issue. In my tests, 250 ug/L was not enough to irritate corals, but 500 ug/L was.

where is the aluminum coming from in your system? or is it the Marine Pure you are saying? sorry just trying to follow along..

 

[arking_mark]

where is the aluminum coming from in your system? or is it the Marine Pure you are saying? sorry just trying to follow along..

There is no source in my relatively new aquarium that I am aware of. I can list the components...
Red Sea 525xl Tank
3" + Deep Sand Bed (started dry)
Rock (started dry)
2 x Red Sea Reefwave 45
Trigger Platinum 34 Sump (fleece roller mat)
Marinepure Blocks
Titanium Heater
Nyos Quantum 160 Skimmer w/ CO2 Scrubber
Chemipur Blue
Vectra L1 Return Pump
Teco TK-1000 Chiller

1% daily AWC
Kalk Reactor (1.8ml/min)
Nyos Zero (carbon 1ml/day)
Red Sea Reef Energy AB+ (40ml/day)
Brightwell ChaetoGro (2ml/day)

Going through the list, the only thing that stood out was Marinepure blocks. There are a bunch of threads on it and elevated Al. According to Marinepur, ICP can't distinguish between inert and free Al. Their material contains inert Al.

 

[Courtney Aldrich]

The aluminum probably came from your Marine Blocks and I suspect is likely present in the water column as fine inert aluminosilicate dust. These blocks are so brittle and easily break up). I think once a nice bacterial biofilm coats them, the leaching of dust is probably minimal, so long as you don't touch them. This is definitely on my list of planned experiments over the summer (if the aluminum is present as fine particles, then one should be able to separate it from dissolved aluminum by high-speed centrifugation or filtration through a 0.3 uM filter). The other common source of aluminum is the water supply. For example the Washington DC water supply (perhaps near your location, Potomac river) has aluminum at an average of 40 ug/L (ppb), but as high as 106 ug/L (ppb) (https://dcwater.com/sites/default/files/documents/2020_dcwater_water_quality_report_0.pdf). Aluminum is removed efficiently by ion-exchange, so if you're using a RO/DI unit, then you're probably removing most of the dissolved aluminum.

 

[arking_mark]

The aluminum probably came from your Marine Blocks and I suspect is likely present in the water column as fine inert aluminosilicate dust. These blocks are so brittle and easily break up). I think once a nice bacterial biofilm coats them, the leaching of dust is probably minimal, so long as you don't touch them. This is definitely on my list of planned experiments over the summer (if the aluminum is present as fine particles, then one should be able to separate it from dissolved aluminum by high-speed centrifugation or filtration through a 0.3 uM filter). The other common source of aluminum is the water supply. For example the Washington DC water supply (perhaps near your location, Potomac river) has aluminum at an average of 40 ug/L (ppb), but as high as 106 ug/L (ppb) (https://dcwater.com/sites/default/files/documents/2020_dcwater_water_quality_report_0.pdf). Aluminum is removed efficiently by ion-exchange, so if you're using a RO/DI unit, then you're probably removing most of the dissolved aluminum.

Cool experiment! Looking forward to reading about it.

The blocks have been moved about 3 times and there is definitely fine dust particles from them.

I'm on well and septic and use only RODI water.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The aluminum probably came from your Marine Blocks and I suspect is likely present in the water column as fine inert aluminosilicate dust. These blocks are so brittle and easily break up). I think once a nice bacterial biofilm coats them, the leaching of dust is probably minimal, so long as you don't touch them. This is definitely on my list of planned experiments over the summer (if the aluminum is present as fine particles, then one should be able to separate it from dissolved aluminum by high-speed centrifugation or filtration through a 0.3 uM filter).

One complexity to that interpretation is the variable amount of "filtration" that ICP companies do, or have customers do, prior to analysis.

The procedures may change over time, but some (e.g., Marinlabs) claim to do none:

Tips for a reliable icp test

Theres also over saturation of the elements of interest when the concentration is too high, etc.

www.reef2reef.com

Triton claimed in this forum (at least as I translated their statement about a cyclone) that they they centrifuged.

Oceamo claims to provide a 0.2 micron filter to customers to use:

Tips for a reliable icp test

Theres also over saturation of the elements of interest when the concentration is too high, etc.

www.reef2reef.com

In my tests with Phosguard, fine filtration (0.45 micron) removed some, but not all of the aluminum that was released. Was it soluble aluminum or even finer particles? I do not know.

Chemistry And The Aquarium: Aluminum In The Reef Aquarium

In this article I will give some details of aluminum in natural seawater, and will discuss the sparse literature on the toxicity of aluminum ions to marine organisms.

reefs.com

 

[Courtney Aldrich]

One complexity to that interpretation is the variable amount of "filtration" that ICP companies do, or have customers do, prior to analysis.

The procedures may change over time, but some (e.g., Marinlabs) claim to do none:

Tips for a reliable icp test

Theres also over saturation of the elements of interest when the concentration is too high, etc.

www.reef2reef.com

Triton claimed in this forum (at least as I translated their statement about a cyclone) that they they centrifuged.

Oceamo claims to provide a 0.2 micron filter to customers to use:

Tips for a reliable icp test

Theres also over saturation of the elements of interest when the concentration is too high, etc.

www.reef2reef.com

In my tests with Phosguard, fine filtration (0.45 micron) removed some, but not all of the aluminum that was released. Was it soluble aluminum or even finer particles? I do not know.

Chemistry And The Aquarium: Aluminum In The Reef Aquarium

In this article I will give some details of aluminum in natural seawater, and will discuss the sparse literature on the toxicity of aluminum ions to marine organisms.

reefs.com

Thanks for pointing this out and I will be sure to go through all of the ICP methods used by companies testing saltwater samples. I just found a nice method that can measure free Al3+ from total aluminum (paper attached). I will try this over the summer if I can track down the equipment at our University. I definitely want to try to distinguish between the different types of aluminum since I think most hobbyist areconcerned about their ICP results, when there likely very little free aluminum.