ICP testing - are the labs accredited?

[TastyScrants]

Hello,

Does anybody happen to know if the likes of Triton, ATI, or FaunaMarin have laboratories accredited against any international standards carrying out their ICP testing?

I want to start getting a 6 monthly ICP on my tank, but for me, as someone working in the healthcare IVD device industry, laboratory test data from an unaccredited method/lab is just as valuable as me trying to read my Salifert PO4 kit in a dimly lit room!

Im sure they’d have some sort of quality mark, as it’s great marketing.

I’d be interested to hear more.

If this doesn’t garner much information I’ll try reaching out directly to these companies.

 

[elcapitan1993]

Wha

@BLineDisaster, I sent ICP tests to both ATI and ICP-Analysis a couple of weeks ago. I checked my water with Mastertonic, Hanna and RedSea at the same time.
To my surprise, I got the display tank results from both on the same day. Still waiting for the RODI results for one of them.
There are some interesting discrepancies in some of the elements, some of them so contradicting that if I took one report I'd think everything is OK, if I consider the other report I would be in the need to take action range.
When I have purchased directly from ICP Analysis, the address says Great White Bottling, Inc. I'm thinking they might also be in the business of selling bottled water, maybe there is more regulation in that business and they might have some info on their accreditation/certification/validation/calibration.
If you haven't tried yet, I'd like to reach out and see what they say.

What were the discrepancies?

 

[TastyScrants]

Just because a lot of people use it, doesnt mean they keep up with calibration and maintenance. When you test your Alk, and it comes up 8dkh, do you re-check it? Or do you just recheck when your dKh comes up 2? If you assume the 2 was wrong, which you will recheck, how do you know the 8 was correct? They should provide certification of their lab equipment if they want me to believe values that i can not verify as accurate. The gas pump you go to gets certified that when it says a gallon, you get a gallon. Why shouldn't they do the same?

Absolutely this! These are the same reasons I asked this question in the first place. I am simply trying to find out if it’s worth paying £30-50 to get my water tested without blindly assuming the data is correct just because I paid so much money and sent it away to a testing site.

 

[TastyScrants]

@BLineDisaster, I sent ICP tests to both ATI and ICP-Analysis a couple of weeks ago. I checked my water with Mastertonic, Hanna and RedSea at the same time.
To my surprise, I got the display tank results from both on the same day. Still waiting for the RODI results for one of them.
There are some interesting discrepancies in some of the elements, some of them so contradicting that if I took one report I'd think everything is OK, if I consider the other report I would be in the need to take action range.
When I have purchased directly from ICP Analysis, the address says Great White Bottling, Inc. I'm thinking they might also be in the business of selling bottled water, maybe there is more regulation in that business and they might have some info on their accreditation/certification/validation/calibration.
If you haven't tried yet, I'd like to reach out and see what they say.

That’s interesting. What discrepancies do you have?

Did you collect your samples for Triton and ATI at the same time?

 

[Smite]

A lot of people use ATI yes, the reason is the consistent results. Others do not seem nearly as consistent from the posts I see.

If there were major errors where people had catastrophic events based of a correction you can bet you'd be hearing about it, constantly. ICP are expensive enough, added costs would get passed onto the consumer so I'm fine with thousands of test ran and happy customers with the biggest complaint being shipping related issues.

Humans are involved with the testing, so there will be errors regardless. If you test regularly and are in tune with your system chances are you will spot a very odd result that would end it a catastrophe and choose to wait to act until confirmed.

 

[TastyScrants]

Here is what I emailed then and what they said as a few have asked. WVNed has annoyed me a little with his assumptions so here it is.

If I’m wrong I’m feeling they went on a defensive to a fair and reasonable request then I’ll hold my hands up to that.

 

[ReefRxSWFL]

If you called your local gas station and asked if their pumps are certified by the state weights and measures groups they would say yes they are.
If you called and asked if they were accredited to sell gas I wonder what they would say.

I have been an accredited technician. That meant I met a set of standards in a particular industry and field.
There was an entity that handled the standards, testing and certifications that awarded me the accreditation.

If no such entity exists how do you become accredited.

I’m simply asking if they have accreditation against their ICP-OES method. You get accreditation by demonstraithing full method validation studies have been performed to ensure the results you are generating are actually what you say they are.

It reduces error rates, and improves quality.

What if you were given a trace element result that was incorrect and you decided to adjust on that based on that data then ended up crashing your tank and losing thousands spent on coral over years?

I agree with what you initially said, who would accredit them? There may be a body out there. The research labs performing testing on actual sea water for research and pollution study purposes will be accredited. Surely that could be extended to aquaculture and hobbyist.

I guess it depends on state , federal and local governing. But there is lab credentialing everywhere. Even independent confirmation of procedures and equipment, which most well equipped universities will do.

 

[AydenLincoln]

Its one of the reasons I’ve e never done it. Just because you bought the machine, if it doesn't get independently teated and certified, how do you know the results are accurate? You can look up certification from LabCorp, Quest Diagnostics, and every hospital with onside lab services. Heck, every gas pump you go to has a dated certification on it. Just because a lot of people use it, doesn't mean it’s accurate. You can buy a brand new Perkin-Elmer Mass Spectrometer, and if you don't calibrate it, and certify it at recommended intervals, its a 6 figure machine that you can use to set your coffee on. When i see how they maintain /certify their machines, and their QA process, i wont be doing it. After all, if you havnt run into snake oil or crappy gear in this hobby, you havnt been doing it long enough.

This is absolutely true! As someone who covers the maintenance and billing on these instruments. They should absolutely be getting preventative maintenance done at least once a year.

 

[AydenLincoln]

Here is what I emailed then and what they said as a few have asked. WVNed has annoyed me a little with his assumptions so here it is.

If I’m wrong I’m feeling they went on a defensive to a fair and reasonable request then I’ll hold my hands up to that.

Well this isn’t reassuring.