I'm not sure what to expect...

[jgvergo]

I'm a newb (though I think I may have to shed that label soon :) The good news is that my tanks has been up and running for ~ 1.5 months and generally things are looking very good. I added these corals 3 weeks ago: Frogspawn, Chalice, Zoa, Gonipora, Ricordia. They are all small frags except the Gonipora, which is a nice domed colony about 2 inches in diameter and 1.5 inches high.

Clean up crew: 2 cleaner shrimp, 1 Blood red shrimp, 1 Peppermint shrimp, 10 Mexican Turbo snails and 10 Hermit crabs

Fish and inverts (added last Friday): Coral beauty dwarf angel, Powder Blue Tang, 2 Hawaiian feather dusters, 2 Kaudens Cardinalfish, 1 bicolor Dotyback, 1 Long Tentacle Anemone (Purple).

The corals all look very healthy so far, with the minor exception of the Gonipora colony. It has a tiny bit of white (bleaching?) along the lower edge of the colony. The fish seem to be thriving. My only issue is with the anemone, which has not anchored itself yet. Other than that, the nem seems perfectly healthy.

All my water parameters are good and steady. I'm target feeding the corals with reef roids.

I know I was a little aggressive in adding the specimens and I'm planning to take a breather for a while. How long should I wait before adding more specimens to the tank and what should I look for that indicates it's okay to add more? Also, what can I expect as far as coral growth is concerned?

 

[CodyRVA]

What size tank is this? Are you dosing?

 

[jgvergo]

What size tank is this? Are you dosing?

85 gallon DT and a 30 gallon sump. Dosing Alk (9dKH) and Ca(430).

 

[CodyRVA]

Gotcha. I would tread carefully, 6 weeks with that large of volume with that much livestock scares me. I wouldn't add any more for several weeks of close inspection. Make sure your system can handle the bio load of the fish. Make sure your parameters are stable enough to support the nem & goni. The nem moving could just be a flow issue, but it could be worse. If it keeps inflating and deflating without improving in a week or so, i'd say your system isn't ready yet. Not sure on the goni, those are supposedly harder to keep than most and I haven't ever tried. The quality of your system will depend upon your growth. If the system is in fact stable and thriving, you'll get good growth, if its not, the corals will stall or die off entirely.

 

[Oceansize]

With all that added biology, your parameters are going to be in flux for several weeks. Your rate of nitrate production is going to increase rapidly, and your consumption of Alk and Ca is going to increase rapidly as well, so daily testing is in order while you wait for things to settle. At 1.5 months, I'd say your tank is too new for most coral and anemones, but I guess we'll see. :) Not trying to criticize, just trying to prepare you for what may come. ;)

 

[happyhourhero]

That was a pretty big bioload increase. I would wait at least a month to see what all makes it and then go much more slowly from there. I would also watch it with the reef roids on top off everything and I would not even bother with it until everything stabilizes. A 1.5 month old tank doesnt even know what stable means yet so I would have a good amount of water on hand for water changes.

Not trying to be a negative Nancy. Your build is awesome and I would hate to see you super frustrated with algae and or livestock die offs from going too quickly. Also, set up a QT or you will almost certainly introduce disease if that many fish are added at once.

 

[briancarterkc]

You can probably only afford to add 1-2 more fish total. 85 is really small for a powder blue tang. Those bad boys grow to larger than a big person's hand. Are you planning to trade him when he gets big, or get a bigger tank?

The corals you have don't really need much, if any, feeding if you have good light so, I second the suggestion to cut the roids for now. Goniopora are pretty hard to keep so, it's not surprising that it's not thriving in a new tank.

To your last question; I'd wait at least a month and if your parameters (alk, calc, nitrates, phosphates, specifically) are stable you can add more coral. I'd honestly not add any more fish. I only have a clown, a Kole tang, and a tiny clown goby in my 65 and feel that's enough.

 

[jgvergo]

OK, the consensus seems to be:

1) Don't add anything else for a least a month
2) Measure tank parameters daily and make adjustments as necessary (dosing, water changes, etc.)
3) Reef roids is not recommended for the corals I have

I will hold off adding anything until Reef-a-palooza in NYC on 6/25 :)

BTW, I noticed one of my Goni polyps extending nicely last night. Keeping my fingers crossed for more to do the same!

 

[Oceansize]

OK, the consensus seems to be:

1) Don't add anything else for a least a month
2) Measure tank parameters daily and make adjustments as necessary (dosing, water changes, etc.)
3) Reef roids is not recommended for the corals I have

I will hold off adding anything until Reef-a-palooza in NYC on 6/25 :)

BTW, I noticed one of my Goni polyps extending nicely last night. Keeping my fingers crossed for more to do the same!

Yep, you got it! :)

One of the main reasons these things take so long is because it takes a long time for bacteria to reproduce enough to meet the new heavier ammonia/nitrite workload. That's basically what you're waiting for. In the meantime, algae blooms and nitrate spikes are likely. Avoid dosing additives during this phase as it encourages the chasing of parameters (which never ends well), just do water changes if the tank doesn't look good. Any by 'avoid dosing additives' I am NOT referring to dosing Calcium and Alkalinity...you should always dose those as necessary until you get around to a more automated solution such as dosing pumps or a calcium reactor.

 

[jgvergo]

Yep, you got it! :)

One of the main reasons these things take so long is because it takes a long time for bacteria to reproduce enough to meet the new heavier ammonia/nitrite workload. That's basically what you're waiting for. In the meantime, algae blooms and nitrate spikes are likely. Avoid dosing additives during this phase as it encourages the chasing of parameters (which never ends well), just do water changes if the tank doesn't look good. Any by 'avoid dosing additives' I am NOT referring to dosing Calcium and Alkalinity...you should always dose those as necessary until you get around to a more automated solution such as dosing pumps or a calcium reactor.

Oceansize, I check Alk daily and Ca weekly. I have a Neptune DOS in operation too. At present I maintain 9 dKH and 420 ppt for Calcium by dosing BRS 2 part, 70ml/day. All my corals, with the exception of the Gonipora, are small frags so they should not cause a big jump in Alk and Ca consumption. Similarly, the total bioload from the new fish is relatively small (I bought "small" versions of all the fish), so I don't expect a big jump in ammonia production, Nitrites or Nitrates. Nevertheless, I will heed the advice of the voices of experience!!!

 

[Oceansize]

Whether a change is considered big or not is completely dependent on the pre-existing conditions. For example, putting even one fish into an uncycled tank devoid of any bacteria will most likely kill it. That one tiny little fish produces more than enough ammonia to kill it if there is not enough bacteria to eat that ammonia.

So on an absolute basis, your nitrate production rate and your ca/alk consumption rate are indeed low compared to mature tanks. But on a relative basis, your current rates are now 100% greater than they were 1.5 months ago when the tank had no inhabitants and your water had no bacteria. That's a big jump as far as your bacteria are concerned. ;)

 

[jgvergo]

Whether a change is considered big or not is completely dependent on the pre-existing conditions. For example, putting even one fish into an uncycled tank devoid of any bacteria will most likely kill it. That one tiny little fish produces more than enough ammonia to kill it if there is not enough bacteria to eat that ammonia.

So on an absolute basis, your nitrate production rate and your ca/alk consumption rate are indeed low compared to mature tanks. But on a relative basis, your current rates are now 100% greater than they were 1.5 months ago when the tank had no inhabitants and your water had no bacteria. That's a big jump as far as your bacteria are concerned. ;)

Ah, I reread my posts in this thread and realized i did not accurately paint the full picture. I started by adding Biospira which, in theory, added a substantial biological filter to the tank. I then introduced my current crop of specimens slowly over the 1.5 month period. I started with two clowns. Then the clean up crew, etc. All along the way I tested daily to make sure all my parameters were pegged (Ammonia and Nitrites 0, Nitrates ranged from 2-5, Alk and Ca at 9 and 420 respectively). From what I could see from my testing, the Biospira worked very well and I have a solid colony of bacteria.

 

[brandon429]

Also post tank pics if poss

We can tell much just by seeing the type of rock you have

 

[jgvergo]

Also post tank pics if poss

We can tell much just by seeing the type of rock you have

This is my display tank. I know it's only 85 gallons, but I'm hoping that there is enough space for the PBT to be happy. If not, I'll find a good home for him when he grows up. The rocks are a combination of Pukani and Tonga shelf. It was dry rock. I gave it a thorough bath in muriatic acid before it went into the tank.

I also have some left over Pukani in my sump:

 

[CodyRVA]

Yea man i would definitely proceed with caution. Judging by those pics, i'm sure your chemistry is swinging like crazy. Even with dosing, absorption rates are not consistent, you're essentially dosing towards a moving target. I'd monitor your ALK every day to ensure it remains in check.

 

[jgvergo]

OK, I am proceeding with extreme caution. I just tested: Alk 9, Ca 430, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrites, 0.0, Nitrates, 0.0 (Red Sea test kits). The params have been pretty steady, but I'm done adding anything for a while.

 

[brandon429]

Nice

Your tank will be fine the reason to hold is just to make sure all is good a few weeks, not everything we buy lives for every tank...my own reef won't keep simple soft coral clavularia, no particular reason known, most else do fine. Kenya caps also don't like my tank

By waiting you see where the natural fits are, then buy more of those.

The algae growths you have set the stage for the rest of your reefing and investment here's my take...I think it will change your reefing and make you immune to all tank invasions.

Never permit any algae anywhere in the tank at any time in any location seen or unseen.


That's pretty much it. Not really any other rules to being algae free

We build two hundred pages of tank correction threads merely implementing that exact action to scores of tanks that purposefully grew algae without knowing you can simply opt out via hard work and a water change.


The way you prevent algae does not matter:
Algae turf scrubbers
Refugiums
Reactors for GFO and bio beads
Carbon dosing via liquid
Uv filters
Clean up crews
Chemical cheats.
Thorough quarantine of all additions (prevents all known tank invasions with the exception of cyano and various green algae that cross tanks constantly)
There is no correct choice, they all work. Pick one. In 2019 change to another and down talk the first method, we all do this.

How often you are hand removing algae, in compliance with the golden rule, does not matter. Whether you clean daily or per quarter varies but in the end we are either farming algae or not. When you see a picture of any algae invasion on the web, try to envision that invasion as the first tiny spot, that was left in, while the keeper sought an ID and some water tweak as first go (then the spot grew)

Your first cleaning is due, tank made spotless in all areas within 24 hours, golden rule adhered tank reset in time. In places you shine a lower kelvin rating light, you may get more growth, and that area requires more export hand guiding work.

When in balance, you'll hardly work on the tank and can take up other hobbies

Hope that helps, it's what I wish someone would have told me in 2000.

Do not see mild, controllable algae growth as water problems, algae are adapted to many conditions. Just hand remove growths... the more creative you get the less work you do. Anyone who has a tank target wrecking their tank, and you can see it in pics as they do things to the water to try and kill it, is breaking the golden rule. Following the rule, the tank could have never got that way. We certainly wouldn't remedy a problem with its very cause (leaving an early growth in place, on purpose, to eventually take over)

im brandon and am against algae, nice to meet you heh

 

[jgvergo]

Nice

Your tank will be fine the reason to hold is just to make sure all is good a few weeks, not everything we buy lives for every tank...my own reef won't keep simple soft coral clavularia, no particular reason known, most else do fine. Kenya caps also don't like my tank

By waiting you see where the natural fits are, then buy more of those.

The algae growths you have set the stage for the rest of your reefing and investment here's my take...I think it will change your reefing and make you immune to all tank invasions.

Never permit any algae anywhere in the tank at any time in any location seen or unseen.


That's pretty much it. Not really any other rules to being algae free

We build two hundred pages of tank correction threads merely implementing that exact action to scores of tanks that purposefully grew algae without knowing you can simply opt out via hard work and a water change.


The way you prevent algae does not matter:
Algae turf scrubbers
Refugiums
Reactors for GFO and bio beads
Carbon dosing via liquid
Uv filters
Clean up crews
Chemical cheats.
Thorough quarantine of all additions (prevents all known tank invasions with the exception of cyano and various green algae that cross tanks constantly)
There is no correct choice, they all work. Pick one. In 2019 change to another and down talk the first method, we all do this.

How often you are hand removing algae, in compliance with the golden rule, does not matter. Whether you clean daily or per quarter varies but in the end we are either farming algae or not. When you see a picture of any algae invasion on the web, try to envision that invasion as the first tiny spot, that was left in, while the keeper sought an ID and some water tweak as first go (then the spot grew)

Your first cleaning is due, tank made spotless in all areas within 24 hours, golden rule adhered tank reset in time. In places you shine a lower kelvin rating light, you may get more growth, and that area requires more export hand guiding work.

When in balance, you'll hardly work on the tank and can take up other hobbies

Hope that helps, it's what I wish someone would have told me in 2000.

Do not see mild, controllable algae growth as water problems, algae are adapted to many conditions. Just hand remove growths... the more creative you get the less work you do. Anyone who has a tank target wrecking their tank, and you can see it in pics as they do things to the water to try and kill it, is breaking the golden rule. Following the rule, the tank could have never got that way. We certainly wouldn't remedy a problem with its very cause (leaving an early growth in place, on purpose, to eventually take over)

im brandon and am against algae, nice to meet you heh

Brandon, I have a fuge and I'm using Carbon and GFO. The light on the fuge runs opposite the DT lights. I have a clean up crew. I guess I should be removing algae by hand too, is that correct?

 

[brandon429]

For sure. It means you are doing what's required for good water, and all else is algae being algae no matter what the invader is don't try and detail your nutrients to control algae. Attain the ideal measures you want, hand remove the ones that still make the gauntlet, and I give you my word your reef cannot be invaded. I have an immune reef following the same method... merely offering the option on down the line.

When your CUC is working, and in balance, you'll have no wall wiping to do. As of now, they are milling about oooo lol

That light growth in the sump, and on top of the rocks is no big deal which is why we are compelled to act right now per the rule. We would lift out the rocks and rinse off outside tank, or siphon it out while in tank.

The sump is a wipe up with paper towels exporting all growths. Any area that does not have algae excluding coralline and coral flesh will grow algae on the real reef, with perfect waters around. Our tanks are the same...if we expect algae but always forbid it, you take massive control over the outcome of your tank in five yrs doing such a basic task. I use chemical cheats while cleaning, because they amplify my work time ROI

Others would never have it, and only employ algae scrubbers or natural animal methods to control algae. In the end the technique does not matter, if we hand guide early on until substrates mature we are free to use any prevention method we want to try.

The swing vote is the simple force clean, and what triggers the mode is when we visually see an invader. In my reef, that's a single strand :)


All forms of preventatives are never the removers of those that still slip through the prevention. Hand wiping or cheat kill/cleaning is the remover, and we make improvements to preventatives only after a tank is forced clean. Am sending you three threads and a thousand tanks to see as a test of the notion

 

[brandon429]

Post three of this thread has so many examples of purposeful farming, and then force cleaning, going back seven years, that any purposeful farmer of an invader in the display tank should think twice :)

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/reef2reef-pest-algae-challenge-thread-hydrogen-peroxide.187042/


The point of those threads is not what chemical cheat to add to a tank in times of distress. It's to show that any number of valid counter options were tried, on invaders left in tanks on purpose, and we were considered last mostly. All those fixes are simply refusing that which was grown literally on purpose. The golden rule doesn't care how you make algae gone, just that it's made gone. Before someone showed me peroxide I was fire burning algae off my rocks, still fulfills the rule.


When you asked what to expect about your tank, the critical part isn't what you've added. It's what are you going to do when your tank gets an invader, on day one? How many in those threads want a do-over day one? Expect your algae test soon, get mean. I won't hijack your thread now lol but I thought just once, why not let someone see they can simply guarantee themselves to be invader free the whole time. Seeing plenty challenge tanks makes us opt out as respect for the invaders ability, even with GFO myriad posts in those threads show.