I'm using Vibrant, where do I go from here......?

[rmorris_14]

Hey everyone,

I know of the ongoing research about the actual contents of Vibrant. I have been lurking on the thread and reading each post as they come in for days.....

Understanding Vibrant: Algaefix, Polixetonium Chloride / Busan 77

Other issues aside, what do you believe would constitute peer review? Not that peer review can always be trusted, depending on the reviewer, heck they don't even have to be from the same field of study. There have been tons of peer review that have been debunked over the years or retracted

www.reef2reef.com

I didn't want ask on that thread and Hijack the post so I started my own.

I have been battling GHA since I acquired the issue from someone else. BRS convinced me Vibrant was the best and most natural course to take "because its just bacteria and not a chemical". Starting in November, I dosed the recommended amount 1x a week for 7 weeks and then up to to 2x a week since because some of the algae was very stubborn. I still have algae trying to grow between weekly manual removal and water changes. Im so over it. I feel like if I let up a little, it will take over again.
I am working on dialing in my feeding levels and researching adding chaeto refugium to my tank which is biocube (which I know I cant do at the same time as vibrant), increasing my CUC once they get out of Quarantine etc. So I am making efforts to get to the root of the problem.

Here are my two concerns:

1. I'd like to stop dosing the vibrant but I am nervous the GHA will come back with vengeance. Can I just stop the Vibrant all at once or should I try to phase it out slowly? my plan was to cut back after I add my CUC next month.

2. I am also nervous that the vibrant may have ill effected the microfauna in my tank and I would like the best way to start trying to boost that. Is that a valid concern? I have no background in chemistry and or science, so trying to read about the implications of using a broad scope algicide in my tank is foreign to me. Any proactive suggestions on how to do that, if warranted, would be really appreciated.

*** there have been no issues with the livestock or coral (all soft) in my tank since dosing.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Some things that will help.

Full shot pic of tank showing algae: just to make sure it is gha
Tank Age:
Tank Volume: (I know you said biocube, but which one)
Full list of parameters from last time you tested.
Was it a dry rock start, LFS live rock start or Actual live rock start?
Live stock list: (fish and corals)
Lighting you are using
Is tank using RODI for top off and new SW mixing?
Do you have a clean up crew? If so, what are they?

If you list these, we can nail down root causes, proper ways to resolve, etc.

 

[MnFish1]

Hey everyone,

I know of the ongoing research about the actual contents of Vibrant. I have been lurking on the thread and reading each post as they come in for days.....

Understanding Vibrant: Algaefix, Polixetonium Chloride / Busan 77

Other issues aside, what do you believe would constitute peer review? Not that peer review can always be trusted, depending on the reviewer, heck they don't even have to be from the same field of study. There have been tons of peer review that have been debunked over the years or retracted

www.reef2reef.com

I didn't want ask on that thread and Hijack the post so I started my own.

I have been battling GHA since I acquired the issue from someone else. BRS convinced me Vibrant was the best and most natural course to take "because its just bacteria and not a chemical". Starting in November, I dosed the recommended amount 1x a week for 7 weeks and then up to to 2x a week since because some of the algae was very stubborn. I still have algae trying to grow between weekly manual removal and water changes. Im so over it. I feel like if I let up a little, it will take over again.
I am working on dialing in my feeding levels and researching adding chaeto refugium to my tank which is biocube (which I know I cant do at the same time as vibrant), increasing my CUC once they get out of Quarantine etc. So I am making efforts to get to the root of the problem.

Here are my two concerns:

1. I'd like to stop dosing the vibrant but I am nervous the GHA will come back with vengeance. Can I just stop the Vibrant all at once or should I try to phase it out slowly? my plan was to cut back after I add my CUC next month.

2. I am also nervous that the vibrant may have ill effected the microfauna in my tank and I would like the best way to start trying to boost that. Is that a valid concern? I have no background in chemistry and or science, so trying to read about the implications of using a broad scope algicide in my tank is foreign to me. Any proactive suggestions on how to do that, if warranted, would be really appreciated.

*** there have been no issues with the livestock or coral (all soft) in my tank since dosing.

There is no way anyone can answer ''what will happen" - BUT - I used vibrant for a while - and stopped it. It did take care of some nuisance algae. In a large freshwater tank - it did a better job - removed all the algae - and it did not come back. (its a year later) - so I would say - if you want to stop it - go ahead.

It might be nice to know your parameters/lighting, etc to try to get to the rest of it

 

[rmorris_14]

Some things that will help.

Full shot pic of tank showing algae: just to make sure it is gha
Tank Age:
Tank Volume: (I know you said biocube, but which one)
Full list of parameters from last time you tested.
Was it a dry rock start, LFS live rock start or Actual live rock start?
Live stock list: (fish and corals)
Lighting you are using
Is tank using RODI for top off and new SW mixing?
Do you have a clean up crew? If so, what are they?

If you list these, we can nail down root causes, proper ways to resolve, etc.

Thanks! I would appreciate that. Here is a a full tank picture and then pictures of the algae
I am dealing with. This is after weeks of manual removal and dosing. It's not the most current picture, but it will give an idea of the kind I am battling.

Tank Age: I dont know 100% Previous owner who sold me everything in November said it was about a year old
Tank Volume: (I know you said biocube, but which one) Biocube 32
Full list of parameters from last time you tested.
Ammonia 0 (API)
Nitrite 0 (API)
PH around 8 (API its hard to tell. I have ordered a Salifert to see if I can get a better idea)
NItrate- (Salifert) usually around 25 to 30 before I do a 10 gallon water change EVERY friday
Phosphate (Fluval) 0 **I know I need to invest in a hanna ULR for this. I haven't been able to do this yet. Which is why I dont want to make any drastic changes because I feel like I would be doing it blind
Was it a dry rock start, LFS live rock start or Actual live rock start? I do not know 100% but i am pretty sure it was Dry life rock
Live stock list: (fish and corals):
Two clowns
royal gamma
cardinal
YWG Goby
Lawn mower Blenny* I am looking to re-home home in the furture. He was sold to me as a "this will fix your algae problems" However, He eats more meat than algae and I think he tips my bioload over the edge. Plus he is kind of a jerk
invertebrates listed below
coral: GSP and two leathers. I have been waiting to add corals until I can get the algae issue more stable.
Lighting you are using- Stock lighting
Is tank using RODI for top off and new SW mixing? I use RO water TDS is 17. I know this could be contributing and I need to get RODI water. Purchasing RODI water is over an hour away and the last time I purchased it from a LFS, it had a higher TDS than my RO water. My husband made me promise to wait to purchase a RODI system, only if the added CUC dont fix the issue. I mix my own saltwater with Instant Ocean REEF
Do you have a clean up crew? If so, what are they? In DT I have 1 nassarius snail, 1 huge zebra turbo, two small zebra turbos, two regular hermits, one scarlet leg hermit , an emerald crab, cleaner shrimp, I think there are a couple trochus or Astrea snails as well.
In QT waiting to go in,-- I have more mexican turbo snails, Nassarius and blue leg hermits. The store didnt have an Ceriths , which I plan on adding when I can as well.

 

[rmorris_14]

There is no way anyone can answer ''what will happen" - BUT - I used vibrant for a while - and stopped it. It did take care of some nuisance algae. In a large freshwater tank - it did a better job - removed all the algae - and it did not come back. (its a year later) - so I would say - if you want to stop it - go ahead.

It might be nice to know your parameters/lighting, etc to try to get to the rest of it

How long did you use it for?
Parameters from what I have are posted above

 

[G Santana]

My experience with Vibrant:
I had a huge issue with GHA, makes yours look like a patch of grass in between a sidewalk crack.

I dosed weekly for 7 weeks along with 10ml hydrogen peroxide daily until I saw the GHA start to gray out. Then I started to vaccum the rock daily until huge chunks of dying GHA came off the rocks.

After 7 weeks I stopped dosing Vibrant and Hydrogen peroxide. I have been problem free for months.

Vibrant works, if you have an ATS or Chaeto ball, pull them from your fuge, Vibrant will kill them or greatly impact upon them.

Vibrant works.

 

[rmorris_14]

My experience with Vibrant:
I had a huge issue with GHA, makes yours look like a patch of grass in between a sidewalk crack.

I dosed weekly for 7 weeks along with 10ml hydrogen peroxide daily until I saw the GHA start to gray out. Then I started to vaccum the rock daily until huge chunks of dying GHA came off the rocks.

After 7 weeks I stopped dosing Vibrant and Hydrogen peroxide. I have been problem free for months.

Vibrant works, if you have an ATS or Chaeto ball, pull them from your fuge, Vibrant will kill them or greatly impact upon them.

Vibrant works.

"I had a huge issue with GHA, makes yours look like a patch of grass in between a sidewalk crack."
HAHAHAHAHA- It was much worse in the beginning. I have been at this since I got the tank in November

Thanks for the other advice

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Thanks! I would appreciate that. Here is a a full tank picture and then pictures of the algae
I am dealing with. This is after weeks of manual removal and dosing. It's not the most current picture, but it will give an idea of the kind I am battling.

Tank Age: I dont know 100% Previous owner who sold me everything in November said it was about a year old
Tank Volume: (I know you said biocube, but which one) Biocube 32
Full list of parameters from last time you tested.
Ammonia 0 (API)
Nitrite 0 (API)
PH around 8 (API its hard to tell. I have ordered a Salifert to see if I can get a better idea)
NItrate- (Salifert) usually around 25 to 30 before I do a 10 gallon water change EVERY friday
Phosphate (Fluval) 0 **I know I need to invest in a hanna ULR for this. I haven't been able to do this yet. Which is why I dont want to make any drastic changes because I feel like I would be doing it blind
Was it a dry rock start, LFS live rock start or Actual live rock start? I do not know 100% but i am pretty sure it was Dry life rock
Live stock list: (fish and corals):
Two clowns
royal gamma
cardinal
YWG Goby
Lawn mower Blenny* I am looking to re-home home in the furture. He was sold to me as a "this will fix your algae problems" However, He eats more meat than algae and I think he tips my bioload over the edge. Plus he is kind of a jerk
invertebrates listed below
coral: GSP and two leathers. I have been waiting to add corals until I can get the algae issue more stable.
Lighting you are using- Stock lighting
Is tank using RODI for top off and new SW mixing? I use RO water TDS is 17. I know this could be contributing and I need to get RODI water. Purchasing RODI water is over an hour away and the last time I purchased it from a LFS, it had a higher TDS than my RO water. My husband made me promise to wait to purchase a RODI system, only if the added CUC dont fix the issue. I mix my own saltwater with Instant Ocean REEF
Do you have a clean up crew? If so, what are they? In DT I have 1 nassarius snail, 1 huge zebra turbo, two small zebra turbos, two regular hermits, one scarlet leg hermit , an emerald crab, cleaner shrimp, I think there are a couple trochus or Astrea snails as well.
In QT waiting to go in,-- I have more mexican turbo snails, Nassarius and blue leg hermits. The store didnt have an Ceriths , which I plan on adding when I can as well.

Ok.

Not using RODI is a partial contributor, along with the NO3. The move may have stirred up some locked up nutrients, etc.

With what you have and how the tank is setup, manual removal with a little h2o2 application to the area the algae is at is best, IMO. I am not a fan of "additives" and such, as once a balance is found, algae control is very easy.

To do the h2o2 along with manual removal:

- Save water from a water change in a bucket and make sure it matches tank temp when doing the below.

- Remove a piece of rock from the water (be sure to wear gloves and eye protection)
- Remove algae from rock out of tank. Use dental pics and tweezers to remove it. best not to scrub with a brush, as that can shove it in pores of the rock.
- Use a small makeup brush, cotton ball or similar to apply a light coating of h2o2 to the area just cleaned.
- Let rock sit for 3-4 minutes out of the water (this will not hurt a thing with the rock.
- Rinse rock in bucket of old water from a water change
- Place rock back in the tank.

With the bioload you have and the amount of rock, I would suggest doing a rock a day. The old SW from a water change can be used for a bit. Just split it up to where any water used to rinse is not going back into the bucket. A simple bubbler to agitate the old water is fine. Just want to keep it from going stagnant.

Once you get an RODI, you will be able to manage the addition of nutrients and other things better. From there, you need to aim to keep a clean up crew that keeps up with alage growth, but doesnt die. You will also need to either feed accordingly to manage nutrients or have some other form of export (skimmer, fuge, etc)

Once you can get nutrients in check and keep things stable, you will see the algae reduce in size and the tank will find a balance.

 

[rmorris_14]

Ok.

Not using RODI is a partial contributor, along with the NO3. The move may have stirred up some locked up nutrients, etc.

With what you have and how the tank is setup, manual removal with a little h2o2 application to the area the algae is at is best, IMO. I am not a fan of "additives" and such, as once a balance is found, algae control is very easy.

To do the h2o2 along with manual removal:

- Save water from a water change in a bucket and make sure it matches tank temp when doing the below.

- Remove a piece of rock from the water (be sure to wear gloves and eye protection)
- Remove algae from rock out of tank. Use dental pics and tweezers to remove it. best not to scrub with a brush, as that can shove it in pores of the rock.
- Use a small makeup brush, cotton ball or similar to apply a light coating of h2o2 to the area just cleaned.
- Let rock sit for 3-4 minutes out of the water (this will not hurt a thing with the rock.
- Rinse rock in bucket of old water from a water change
- Place rock back in the tank.

With the bioload you have and the amount of rock, I would suggest doing a rock a day. The old SW from a water change can be used for a bit. Just split it up to where any water used to rinse is not going back into the bucket. A simple bubbler to agitate the old water is fine. Just want to keep it from going stagnant.

Once you get an RODI, you will be able to manage the addition of nutrients and other things better. From there, you need to aim to keep a clean up crew that keeps up with alage growth, but doesnt die. You will also need to either feed accordingly to manage nutrients or have some other form of export (skimmer, fuge, etc)

Once you can get nutrients in check and keep things stable, you will see the algae reduce in size and the tank will find a balance.

thank you for this detailed response. I have been leaning towards tackling this H202 approach soon, but havent pulled the trigger on it. This is helpful. couple of questions.
1.would any hydrogen peroxide work?
2. would it be helpful to use a product like phosphate X (which I know goes against your no additive approach, but just to starve the algae and get it extra week before I try removing it from the rocks...NOT as a long term fix)

 

[G Santana]

"I had a huge issue with GHA, makes yours look like a patch of grass in between a sidewalk crack."
HAHAHAHAHA- It was much worse in the beginning. I have been at this since I got the tank in November

Thanks for the other advice

Lol this was my Punk Rocker Urchin during my GHA ri

de

 

[Jekyl]

Not using RoDi and nitrate are your causes most likely. Get those 2 fixed and maybe start dosing live phyto instead. It's beneficial for everything.

 

[rmorris_14]

Lol this was my Punk Rocker Urchin during my GHA ri

de

HAHAHA thank for sharing that. It definitely brought a huge smile to my face. So funny

 

[Eagle_Steve]

thank you for this detailed response. I have been leaning towards tackling this H202 approach soon, but havent pulled the trigger on it. This is helpful. couple of questions.
1.would any hydrogen peroxide work?
2. would it be helpful to use a product like phosphate X (which I know goes against your no additive approach, but just to starve the algae and get it extra week before I try removing it from the rocks...NOT as a long term fix)

3% from any retailer (DG, Walmart, Publix, Etc.) is fine and all you need.

Phosphate X is LC, I believe. If it is, you would need lower micron filter socks and a skimmer to ensure the precipitate is collected, so it can be exported out of the tank. Also, being as you are using the Fluval test kit, your PO4 could be anywhere from 0 to .25 before it indicates any present. I would steer away from dosing LC until you can get an actual reading.

In regards to the fluval test kit, I wonder if you could reduce the amount of sample water to half, do the test and then divide by 2 to get a reading. Or at least see if any amount is actually present. I know you can do this with other test kits, but not sure on that.

In regards to the reduce sample water amount, I would have to ask @Randy Holmes-Farley if this is even possible.

Here are the directions, so maybe this will help to answer that.

https://fluvalaquatics.com/manuals/A7872_Manual_Map.pdf

 

[rmorris_14]

Not using RoDi and nitrate are your causes most likely. Get those 2 fixed and maybe start dosing live phyto instead. It's beneficial for everything.

thank you! Im working on it. When I got the tank. the Nitrate were off the charts. The solution turned bright red instantly. I take pride in my 25 to 30 range . But I do know it needs improvement.

 

[Jekyl]

thank you! Im working on it. When I got the tank. the Nitrate were off the charts. The solution turned bright red instantly. I take pride in my 25 to 30 range . But I do know it needs improvement.

2 30% water changes a week will help with it. Live phyto will also.

 

[rmorris_14]

3% from any retailer (DG, Walmart, Publix, Etc.) is fine and all you need.

Phosphate X is LC, I believe. If it is, you would need lower micron filter socks and a skimmer to ensure the precipitate is collected, so it can be exported out of the tank. Also, being as you are using the Fluval test kit, your PO4 could be anywhere from 0 to .25 before it indicates any present. I would steer away from dosing LC until you can get an actual reading.

In regards to the fluval test kit, I wonder if you could reduce the amount of sample water to half, do the test and then divide by 2 to get a reading. Or at least see if any amount is actually present. I know you can do this with other test kits, but not sure on that.

In regards to the reduce sample water amount, I would have to ask @Randy Holmes-Farley if this is even possible.

Here are the directions, so maybe this will help to answer that.

https://fluvalaquatics.com/manuals/A7872_Manual_Map.pdf

SUPER THANKS! I hadn't thought about the reduction on the fluval test

 

[rmorris_14]

2 30% water changes a week will help with it. Live phyto will also.

Any particular recommendation for live phyto source?

And do you want any of my GSP? JK!!!!!!!!! HAHA

 

[G Santana]

thank you! Im working on it. When I got the tank. the Nitrate were off the charts. The solution turned bright red instantly. I take pride in my 25 to 30 range . But I do know it needs improvement.

I also had a Nitrate problem, over the last 12/13 weeks I dosed Vodka and I brought the nitrates down from 47/48 to 13.9 as of Monday.

I followed this table.

 

[Jekyl]

Any particular recommendation for live phyto source?

And do you want any of my GSP? JK!!!!!!!!! HAHA

You can either culture your own or I just use the stuff from algae barn.

 

[G Santana]

This is the phyto I use, I bought a double bottle off of Amazon along with the fertilizer and have been splitting the cultures for 8 months or so.