Insurance Implications for Aquarists

[MnFish1]

yes, you can file a complaint with the state’s department of insurance. but like i said, not a battle you want to be in.

Well - no one wants to be in any battle. - Its about protecting oneself before a problem. Instead of telling everyone what they 'shouldn't do' - maybe you should suggest what people should do - since you (and I respect you as such) are an expert....

 

[MnFish1]

having it in “writing” from an agent means little to claims investigators. that’s not a battle customers want to be in. trust me.

You need to explain yourself. If an agent represents something to you - and is not right. its his fault. Not the insurance company nor the customer's. Just because you have some opinion that everyone should deal directly with the company doesnt make common sense wrong. If I ask an agent point blank whether the policy covers an aquarium breaking and leaking all over and the policy says something different may mean that the insurance company isnt responsible - it doesnt release the agent.

Maybe (and I agree with you if you are) - you are recommending confiriming with the insurance company whether such damage is covered - If so I would do it in Email - not on the phone - which was the main point starting out...

 

[cromag27]

You need to explain yourself. If an agent represents something to you - and is not right. its his fault. Not the insurance company nor the customer's. Just because you have some opinion that everyone should deal directly with the company doesnt make common sense wrong. If I ask an agent point blank whether the policy covers an aquarium breaking and leaking all over and the policy says something different may mean that the insurance company isnt responsible - it doesnt release the agent.

Maybe (and I agree with you if you are) - you are recommending confiriming with the insurance company whether such damage is covered - If so I would do it in Email - not on the phone - which was the main point starting out...

not necessarily. remember when i said i’m a licensed insurance agent. yeah there are tons of clauses to release liability from an insurance company.

 

[MnFish1]

not necessarily. remember when i said i’m a licensed insurance agent. yeah there are tons of clauses to release liability from an insurance company.

So - All I was saying is that communicating by phone is a 'he said-she(or he) said situation'. If I communicate it by email - its much more clear. No more no less.

 

[cromag27]

So - All I was saying is that communicating by phone is a 'he said-she(or he) said situation'. If I communicate it by email - its much more clear. No more no less.

but is that enough for an insurance to pay on a claim? mostly not.

 

[MnFish1]

but is that enough for an insurance to pay on a claim? mostly not.

No - but its enough for you to sue the agent. And whether you win or lose - its far better evidence than having said 'I called my agent and asked some date - what happens if my aquarium breaks - and he said you're covered. I mean come on - its common sense.

 

[cromag27]

No - but its enough for you to sue the agent. And whether you win or lose - its far better evidence than having said 'I called my agent and asked some date - what happens if my aquarium breaks - and he said you're covered. I mean come on - its common sense.

i also have a background in law. so good luck with that theory.

 

[Dancingmad]

this is how some of my calls go. no joke.

Haaahahahahaha! One of the oldest scams ever - I heard home/fire insurance scams date all the way back to roman times(fact or fiction?).

Would it change anything if they produced a body of the animal they hit? If you're going all in w/ this stance you gotta at least produce a bass or trout to make it believable...

 

[MnFish1]

i also have a background in law. so good luck with that theory.

UM - I didn't disagree with you - I said - having a written trail of what is covered/not covered is better than a phone call.. again - no more no less.

 

[cromag27]

UM - I didn't disagree with you - I said - having a written trail of what is covered/not covered is better than a phone call.. again - no more no less.

actually that’s not what you said at all.

No - but its enough for you to sue the agent. And whether you win or lose - its far better evidence than having said 'I called my agent and asked some date - what happens if my aquarium breaks - and he said you're covered. I mean come on - its common sense.

 

[Burrito]

Why the arguing. I read this thread in hopes of learning about insurance and tanks. I did research in this from prior threads.

Be happy everyone.

That said. I had progressive up until last month because I asked about my reef tank and was told not covered and can’t be covered. I switched to farmers after many lengthy conversations. I will confirm in an email one more time...you know. For “paper” trail

 

[cromag27]

Why the arguing. I read this thread in hopes of learning about insurance and tanks. I did research in this from prior threads.

Be happy everyone.

That said. I had progressive up until last month because I asked about my reef tank and was told not covered and can’t be covered. I switched to farmers after many lengthy conversations. I will confirm in an email one more time...you know. For “paper” trail

no arguing. just correcting misinformation.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Any suggestions on companies who DO have good insurance for damage/loss ?

 

[garbled]

I use American Family. When my R/O system blew the fitting off a solenoid on the high pressure side (see my build for details), they paid out on the damages fully. This wasn't technically an aquarium failure though, it was on a plumbing system-ish... so.. YMMV.

 

[ca1ore]

Man, I just dont want to think about how much of a mess 400 gallons of water would make. I’ve spent a lot of time and effort making sure there’s not even a mm of floor deflection, that the stand is bomb proof and there’s nothing of great value in the basement under the tank (including moving my over priced stereo system lol).

It’s unclear to me if any of the companies will cover damage from a tank rupture, so I try to do all I can to ensure it doesn’t.

 

[Burrito]

i moved away, as stated above, from progressive because they said, a pump failure would be covered, which in my case a failure would be of little damage (to the house). or if one of the 7 perils were involved to cause the tank to break/leak. things like fire, hurricanes, burglary, etc. very unlikely that if any of them happened my tank would be priority. farmers, explicitly said i was covered in the event any water damage occurred from the presence of a fish tank, they like many others though would not cover the livestock.

 

[West1]

This is interesting to have our aquarium stuff insured.

On a side note, anyone that files a claim should consider hiring a public adjuster. The broker will do minimal or just enough to put a bandaid on the true repair costs.
I had to file a claim 4 yrs ago in my house and my insurance gave me a check... one frustrated client followed by a phone call to an adjuster later, my insurance cut me another whopping check!
A few months later, all was repairs were completed by myself.

The biggest problem is having proper coverage PRE-damage, then you can fight for the money owed.

 

[cromag27]

Any suggestions on companies who DO have good insurance for damage/loss ?

lloyd’s of london.

 

[Nathan33]

I’ve just experienced a wake up call myself. I’m in Alaska where we just experienced a major 7.0 earthquake. My apartment in Anchorage had insurance and I made sure that my tank was covered. I did not confirm what was actually covered. I did not loose my tank in the quake but the shaking caused a small wave to go over my radion lights. My lights were the only loss I had but I immediately had to start moving corals to new homes.

It turns out my aquarium it’s inhabitants and equipment were not covered but any damages caused by the aquarium were.

 

[ESH]

I’ve just experienced a wake up call myself. I’m in Alaska where we just experienced a major 7.0 earthquake. My apartment in Anchorage had insurance and I made sure that my tank was covered. I did not confirm what was actually covered. I did not loose my tank in the quake but the shaking caused a small wave to go over my radion lights. My lights were the only loss I had but I immediately had to start moving corals to new homes.

It turns out my aquarium it’s inhabitants and equipment were not covered but any damages caused by the aquarium were.

Glad you are ok! Sorry to hear about the damages!

This is actually a pretty good article that provides a great general overview on what to consider when looking for insurance. I'll chime in too and happy to help answer peoples questions. My background; I currently work in personal insurance sales managing an office for a larger company. I am licensed in personal insurance sales, and I am no longer licensed as an adjuster, however, in the past I've also managed property claims teams. My by the book advice is that if you think you have a claim, contact your insurance company. Even if you are not covered, they often can get you in contact with licensed contractors who can help you with your repairs.

In insurance, like most things in life, you do get what you pay for and it's all about how you are going to manage risk in your life. Inexpensive insurance isn't necessarily bad, its just not suitable for what one person to the next has to protect. When it comes to risk management, you often have to find a balance between the value you need for coverages and what you can afford. In a perfect world we'd all have significant savings set aside and not even need insurance, but even then, insurance is still an affordable way to recover from a catastrophic loss.

Remember that insurance is designed to get you back to your pre loss conditions, it is not meant to make you better off than before and each state has differences because it is regulated at the state level. Your insurance policy is a contract, full of legal verbiage, which adjusters utilize to determine if based off of the cause of loss if you have coverage or not. My best piece of advice is that I highly recommend those interested in learning more about what they are or are not covered for download a PDF of their homeowners or renters policy, and start doing a keyword search using the "control f" search function. Having a better understanding of your coverages will help out when you are talking with your agent - be it with someone in person, through an agent or broker, online or through a call center. Every avenue is going to have different people with different experience levels. I work in a local sales office, and have a bias to say we are going to be more knowledgeable than the 1-800 call center or if you purchased something online without ever talking to someone, but I do know that there are a significant amount of great sales people who work in call centers and make a good living doing so. To each their own, most of us on this forum get advice from one another and don't always talk to anyone in person when building their tanks, so something to consider.

So if you have a loss, now what? If you ever have a submit a claim for a loss, contact your carrier, they will assign an adjuster, the adjuster is going to gather details of the loss, review your policy and determine if you have coverage for your loss. The insurance adjuster will (and should) provide you a letter explaining why you are or are not covered. If the letter isn't written properly, details can be vague and even if properly written, will likely be full of legal jargon. So if you do not understand, and your adjuster isn't doing a good job, I would personally ask to escalate to a manager for a better explanation. I have, at times, reviewed coverages in further detail, and had to go back to the adjuster and point out where they had coverages, and would often have our legal team get involved to determine if something was unclear to verify if there was or wasn't coverages. Some companies even have an executive team designed to provide a more detailed written explanation of this. Depending on the severity of the loss, you may be dealing with an adjuster over the phone or in person. If that doesn't get you anywhere, and really at any time, you can get a legal representation, just know that once you do, your attorney is now the one the company will talk with so if you call in yourself you might not get any answers.

Its challenging to go through what if claims situations. Every person's claim is usually unique and has a different reasoning towards it. However, I'm happy to give one example a shot. So lets say my new red sea reefer, 160 gallon bursts randomly in my living room, and I come home seeing the disaster. Searching through my homeowners policy, nothing is specifically stated about an aquarium. So where to begin in determining your coverage? So the next thing I looked up using control F to key word search was "water", as well as "overflow". When searching, I found the verbiage the adjuster would provide me with, which was that the loss has to be "sudden and accidental", and cannot be from a long term issue (like seepage.. most companies don't cover if its been over 14 days and will deny your claim) and then I found what was excluded. Exclusions usually provide more details on if you have coverage or not. Reading through the exclusions section, I came across this part which reads:
"2. If items 1.f. through 1.p. above cause water damage which is not otherwise excluded, we cover the resulting water damage, including the cost of tearing out and replacing any part of a building necessary to repair a plumbing, heating, air conditioning or automatic fire protective sprinkler system or household appliance. We do not cover loss to the system or property that causes it to damage or appliance from which this water escaped." there are also different areas discussing water losses which also state something similar, without mentioning items 1f-1p (no need to list them, just using this as an example)

This is essentially saying, if my tank bursts, the resulting water damage and the cost to repair my house is covered. Coverage limits and the deductible apply. My tank and all its inhabitants, having suddenly and accidently burst at the seams, are not covered. Cost of the dry out, floor replacement, and likely any personal items around the tank will likely be covered. The tank, equipment, stand... will most likely not be covered. With that said, every claim situation is unique, their could be specific circumstances why something is or is not covered.

Also, in some situations, your insurance company may or may not be able to try and build a case against a manufacture defect, and if they win, can help you get your deductible back, and some companies will then note that your claim was "subrogated" . Essentially, in this case of a burst tank, subrogated means the insurance company sued the manufacture for the defect, won its case, got the money it paid to you for your repairs back. This can take a pretty long time, though this is important, as some companies factor this in determining your future rates and may be able to remove subrogated claims. This is not always the case, and is really up to the insurance company on how they underwrite their policies.

Hope some of this info helps others here trying to navigate the insurance world. One last thing, when looking through your policy, don't forget to look through your endorsements at the end! these can change coverages for you. Sometimes this is good, sometimes its not good. Don't overlook this!
-Eric