Is it me or my tank

[Dkmoo]

It is worth checking, but I've never seen tissue recession and polyp bailout from low pH. A pH of ~7.7 is the generally accepted minimum "safe" pH. Test it in early morning before the lights come on when pH is generally at it's lowest. Some tanks swing as much as 0.4pH throughout the course of the day.

the carbonate concentration (what LPS needs to form their calcium carbonate bones) is approx 50% less in pH of 7.7 vs pH of 8.0. In those conditions, LPS will likely need to use bicarbonate to form calcium carbonate, which it can do, but takes more work. When it uses bicarbonate to make calcium carbonate, extra +H ions remain which causes the pH inside the coral tissue to be actually lower that 7.7 and the corals need to use extra energy to pump them out. the "lower than 7.7 pH" environment inside coral tissues, in turn, make calcium carbonate formation even more difficult. This leads to corals just generally more brittle and more susceptible to other environmental stressors and lessens the long term success rate. When the tanks other params are optimal, 7.7pH is passible but you will have little margin of error. When there are other environmental stressors, as may be the case in OP's tank, a 7.7pH will cause the LPS to be the first to go.

 

[Blumy]

I’m going to go against the grain and say you light is set way too low. I have a 70 gallon with 2 of those lights at 100% blue and 50% white and grow SPS no problem. What do you have for powerheads?

 

[eag]

the carbonate concentration (what LPS needs to form their calcium carbonate bones) is approx 50% less in pH of 7.7 vs pH of 8.0. In those conditions, LPS will likely need to use bicarbonate to form calcium carbonate, which it can do, but takes more work. When it uses bicarbonate to make calcium carbonate, extra +H ions remain which causes the pH inside the coral tissue to be actually lower that 7.7 and the corals need to use extra energy to pump them out. the "lower than 7.7 pH" environment inside coral tissues, in turn, make calcium carbonate formation even more difficult. This leads to corals just generally more brittle and more susceptible to other environmental stressors and lessens the long term success rate. When the tanks other params are optimal, 7.7pH is passible but you will have little margin of error. When there are other environmental stressors, as may be the case in OP's tank, a 7.7pH will cause the LPS to be the first to go.

Sorry, I wasn't intending to contradict you. I think we agree on most of these points, and most importantly that pH 7.7 is not necessarily good.. but OP reports fairly acute coral response. The message I'm trying to send is that pH problem is less likely to cause the specific problems being observed (tissue recession and polyp bailout) and more likely to impact growth and exposed skeleton health.

Most of what I understand about pH and what is "good" or "bad" comes from this thread with Randy: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/w...what-if-anything-should-i-do-about-it.728371/

I’m going to go against the grain and say you light is set way too low.

I wondered about this too! But same as above, was skeptical that it would lead to tissue recession and polyp bailout... Though I'm sure I've seen very little of all the things that can be seen

 

[Dkmoo]

Sorry, I wasn't intending to contradict you. I think we agree on most of these points, and most importantly that pH 7.7 is not necessarily good.. but OP reports fairly acute coral response. The message I'm trying to send is that pH problem is less likely to cause the specific problems being observed (tissue recession and polyp bailout) and more likely to impact growth and exposed skeleton health.

Most of what I understand about pH and what is "good" or "bad" comes from this thread with Randy: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/w...what-if-anything-should-i-do-about-it.728371/

Its all good - i'm a very religious reader of everything Randy mentions too.

my whole point is just that the OP tests it to rule it out as a cause, or at least rule it out as a "co morbidity". its reasonable that another stressor caused the acute bailout response. I'm suggesting that, if the pH was indeed at 7.7, then perhaps had it been kept at 8.1 or 8.2, that this same stressor may not have caused the same bailout response.

 

[eag]

I'm suggesting that, if the pH was indeed at 7.7, then perhaps had it been kept at 8.1 or 8.2, that this same stressor may not have caused the same bailout response.

+1

 

[Streetlamp]

Regarding flow I have two tunze nanostream a 6015 and 6025. They appear to provide adequate flow with no dead spots and plenty of movement.

regarding kh buffer i use baked bicarbonate soda mixed in Rodi. I add 10ml daily which maintains/ slightly increases my kh.

let’s discount sps from this discussion for now as I haven’t tried a new piece in a while bar 2 tiny pieces of green monti. Which like previous sps just die back quickly.

to further describe what happens the lips. The last piece I had was a torch. It would extend well and extension from the rim of the skeleton was visible. Then over time the extension would occur but connection would be within the skeleton eventually detaching and floating away with long happy looking tentacles. Similar with a candy cane before. Nice puffy looking heads which would lose colour around the skeleton and then slowly detach and float off.

I also don’t know whether or not my softies are doing well. They remain as they’re bought. Mushrooms fit example (Rhodactis) extend beautifully but haven’t split once in nearly a year.

I had a major cyano issue at the start of the year which has been eradicated. Also hair algae for a while on my back wall which has cleared nicely in the last week.

I don’t think I’m trying to achieve anything extraordinary or difficult. I don’t have a goal of a super stick tank just a straight forward softie los tank maybe with some easy sps if possible.

 

[eag]

I don’t think I’m trying to achieve anything extraordinary or difficult. I don’t have a goal of a super stick tank just a straight forward softie los tank maybe with some easy sps if possible.

Agreed your goal is reasonable and should be attainable. Check the levels discussed here and post back then we can continue investigating.

Tissue recession and polyp bailout with happy tentacles is not IMO a common failure mode for LPS so if I were in your shoes Id also be looking for things that cause that particular problem. As I mentioned previously, I saw exact same behavior in a frogspawn and it was due to high flow.

I think that @Dkmoo is right too, there could be a combination of things, but we can't know until we get the other levels (e.g. Mg, pH)

 

[Streetlamp]

I got the water tested but the lfs don't test ph because samples don't give accurate results. They also suggested I may have a metal issue . I have also upped my lights and I am seeing an improvement in softie expansion.

 

[Streetlamp]

Just a late update finally got a ph kit. First test is showing 8.15

 

[eag]

8.15 is fine .. try measuring early morning before lights come on, that's when pH is lowest.

 

[Streetlamp]

I did an ICP test here are my results.

any thoughts on these results.

 

[Clown2020]

It is worth checking, but I've never seen tissue recession and polyp bailout from low pH. A pH of ~7.7 is the generally accepted minimum "safe" pH. Test it in early morning before the lights come on when pH is generally at it's lowest. Some tanks swing as much as 0.4pH throughout the course of the day.

Agree PH is good to know but unlikely to be the issue.

My tank swings from 8.3 to 7.7 over the course of 24 hours and lps And sps are growing well.

My first thoughts would be lighting and stability of alk ca and mg not necessarily what the numbers are (within reason of course) but how consistent are they are.

Edit: Whoops must be going blind and missed half the conversation and dates before responding….

 

[Nano sapiens]

My problem is I cannot keep stony coral LPS or SPS. The lps slowly recede (sometimes over months) and bailout while still looking healthy. This has happened duncans, torch, hammer, candy cane. Th only LPS lasting is a single blasto head. However in nearly a year i hasn't grown any new heads.

My softies are big and healthy. However my shrooms are big and moving but don't split. Coraline grows well too.

Lots covered in this thread and nothing from a parameter standpoint stands out as an issue IMO.

If your tank is soft coral dominated, some soft corals can produce an environment that is not conducive to stony coral health via the release of chemicals (allelopathy). 'Leathers' in the Sarcophyton/Sinularia genus are perhaps best known for this and are common aquarium inhabitants. The proper use of GAC (granulated activated carbon) is generally regarded as the most effective way to mitigate this problem, but regular water changes and skimming can also be helpful.

Your filtration diagram shows a chamber for 'carbon'. If you use carbon, is it a good quality GAC, and if so, do you change it out often?

Can you post a full tank picture so we can see the coral community?

The other possibility (as has previously been mentioned) is that your light levels are just too low for long term LPS health. The fact that only the lowest light tolerant LPS of them all, Blastomussa, has survived and not produced additional polyps (while other types haven't survived) may indicate that this is the problem.

 

[Streetlamp]

Here is an image of the tank.

As you can see its not overly stocked. The only things growing are GSP, Green zoas and the green shroom. Everything else is holding or receding. I added cyphstrea approx 6 weeks ago which was covering the frag plug it was on and now i can see it receding from the edges. Same with a duncan added 8-9 weeks ago at first it was open and stretched out now if I'm luck the tips might open up a bit. This behaviour has been constant now for 2 years.

Maybe i should jsut stick to green corals and coraline.

I think its rowa carbon I use.

Here is my light schedule.

 

[Nano sapiens]

Ok, so a couple potential leads here with a leather coral and what looks to be somewhat dim lighting.

How do you think you'd like to proceed?

 

[Streetlamp]

I’ll discount the leather. As this issue was present before the leather entered the system.

I think I’m going to go high on the lighting.

 

[polyppal]

I have a ~39gal AIO tank, Aquanano 80. Its not far off its second birthday. I keep param stable.
Sal - 1.025
KH - 8.2
Cal - 410
Nitrate - 10
Phos - .1

My problem is I cannot keep stony coral LPS or SPS. The lps slowly recede (sometimes over months) and bailout while still looking healthy. This has happened duncans, torch, hammer, candy cane. Th only LPS lasting is a single blasto head. However in nearly a year i hasn't grown any new heads.

My softies are big and healthy. However my shrooms are big and moving but don't split. Coraline grows well too.

I run a read sea 90 at 45% blue 30% white. Tank dims 80*40*45cm deep.

Is this this tank only capable of softies or am I am missing something.

I would have thought easy lps would be possible. I'm not chsing acro's.

This is the filtration setup

b8abc658-563e-42bd-ad48-bf6c96ab412a by https://www.flickr.com/photos/158173144@N02/,

The sponges have been removed with live rock added in there. the cartiridges have been replaced with carbon and phosphate remover media bags.

Using RODI?

 

[Streetlamp]

I use store bought water.

 

[Streetlamp]

Here is an example of what is happening.

this

To this

approx 7 weeks

 

[Miami Reef]

If you see coralline algae growing good…I’d suspect too little light. Coralline algae grows best at lower par.