Is red silicone reef safe?

[CC13]

You really like posting links. Lol

All these people?? You mean all these newbies.

Here’s a link for you. This is from people that build tanks for a living bro. People that work and have worked for large tank manufacturing companies. I still know most of the guys today. The ones that are still alive anyway.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2289883&page=2

The only thing you are correct on is, to the best of my knowledge, there have been no scientific study performed on mold inhibitor silicon on a reef tank. Which is EXACTLY why you have no scientific proof that mold inhibitors don't result in negative long term affects. You being in the hobby for 20 years and have suffered no 'ill effects' is about as impirical as you can get.

Again, when faced with the mountain of silicon selection at Home Depot, I'm choosing the one that gives me the highest probability for long-term success.

 

[Reefahholic]

https://www.google.ca/search?safe=o...1..gws-wiz.......0j0i7i30j0i22i30.0wM6VUNcezA

LOL All these people are wrong. You are right.

Miracles Aquarium is 30 minutes from me. I have purchased all my tanks from them and I can 100% assure you, they don't use silicon with mold inhibitors in it. That is a fact.

I’ve very familiar with what adhesive is being used for tank building friend. Most large companies like Miracles use one of 4 adhesives. Momentive RTV 108, Momentive RTV 103, SCS 1200, or ASI.

There’s not that many adhesives that have the Peel, Tear, Shear, and Tensile strength for tank building.

You believe what you like. I’ve got more important things to do. You laugh at my reply and got educated.

 

[CC13]

You laugh at my reply and got educated.

LOLLLLL Ya you definitely taught us all a thing or two in this thread.

 

[Reefahholic]

The only thing you are correct on is, to the best of my knowledge, there have been no scientific study performed on mold inhibitor silicon on a reef tank. Which is EXACTLY why you have no scientific proof that mold inhibitors don't result in negative long term affects. You being in the hobby for 20 years and have suffered no 'ill effects' is about as impirical as you can get.

Again, when faced with the mountain of silicon selection at Home Depot, I'm choosing the one that gives me the highest probability for long-term success.

Before I go,

Don’t take it from me...take it form Uncle! One of the best adhesive experts in the game. Maybe I’ll PM him and have him and the boys at RC come visit.

Maybe you should read again:

uncleof6
Registered Member



Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: AWOL
Posts: 12,013

Quote:
Originally Posted by john08007
I think I know the answer but just want to put it out here to check. As far as a reef safe silicone I can use any 100% silicone that does not mention any kind of fights bacteria, antimicrobial or anything like that, correct??
You can use any silicone you care too, as there is no such thing as "anti-mildew" additives. Silicone is naturally mildew resistant, and neutral cure silicone is more mildew resistant. (Silicone II is a neutral cure silicone same as the much recommended Dow Corning 795.) After pouring over hundreds of MSDS and product data sheets, I have yet to find any component of a silicone product by any manufacturer that would be considered as anti-anything.

What kills tanks is insufficient cure time. Silicone (whether Silicone I or Silicone II, need to cure a minimum of a week, and considering the globs used by hobbyists, 2 weeks and sometimes longer.

In short, all silicones (except those containing co-polymers e.g. not 100% silicone) are reef safe. It is the end user that is not reef safe.

This leaves the appropriate question: What silicone is best suited for my purpose. Silicone I and silicone II, despite widespread usage, are not suitable for marine system use, nor are any other consumer grade sealants on the market.


__________

 

[CC13]

Before I go,

Don’t take it from me...take it form Uncle! One of the best adhesive experts in the game. Maybe I’ll PM him and have him and the boys at RC come visit.

Maybe you should read again:

uncleof6
Registered Member



Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: AWOL
Posts: 12,013

Quote:
Originally Posted by john08007
I think I know the answer but just want to put it out here to check. As far as a reef safe silicone I can use any 100% silicone that does not mention any kind of fights bacteria, antimicrobial or anything like that, correct??
You can use any silicone you care too, as there is no such thing as "anti-mildew" additives. Silicone is naturally mildew resistant, and neutral cure silicone is more mildew resistant. (Silicone II is a neutral cure silicone same as the much recommended Dow Corning 795.) After pouring over hundreds of MSDS and product data sheets, I have yet to find any component of a silicone product by any manufacturer that would be considered as anti-anything.

What kills tanks is insufficient cure time. Silicone (whether Silicone I or Silicone II, need to cure a minimum of a week, and considering the globs used by hobbyists, 2 weeks and sometimes longer.

In short, all silicones (except those containing co-polymers e.g. not 100% silicone) are reef safe. It is the end user that is not reef safe.

This leaves the appropriate question: What silicone is best suited for my purpose. Silicone I and silicone II, despite widespread usage, are not suitable for marine system use, nor are any other consumer grade sealants on the market.


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I thought you were busy?

Again, this isn't scientific. You ranted and raved about having scientific proof and then post one thread from a fellow member who has the same viewpoint as you. There are hundreds of threads, if you cared to look, that state the exact opposite.

You most definitely educated us all here today.

 

[Reefahholic]

I thought you were busy?

Again, this isn't scientific. You ranted and raved about having scientific proof and then post one thread from a fellow member who has the same viewpoint as you. There are hundreds of threads, if you cared to look, that state the exact opposite.

You most definitely educated us all here today.

Quote where I ranted about “scientific proof.”

Bah hahah...now your just flat lying.

Good luck man. Go buy some GE 1 window and door.

It’s reef safe!!!

 

[CC13]

Yeah, like I said...documented study. I know all the threads as I’ve read about every single one over the last 20 years. Not one of them has strong evidence that cured silicone has ever crashed a tank. I’ve built several sumps with both GE I window and door and also....wait for it....GE II with....mold inhibitors!

Tanks ran for years with it.

Keep your anecdotal links coming bro. That’s how rumors are started.

I think you are tired from all the educating you have done here today, your forgetting your posts from not even 45 minutes ago.

Documented study = scientific evidence.

You have been in this hobby for 20+ years (your claim not mine), you should at the very least know that documented study and scientific study are one and the same.

 

[Swingline77]

I'm sort of reluctant to get back into the discussion considering the tone, but here it goes.

First, I appreciate the contributions of all that have posted in this thread. Let's remember that we are discussing these things because all of us here love aquatic environments. Most people in society couldn't care less about these topics. All of us here have quite a bit in common with each other. I hope we can discuss these things in a friendly way.

The MSDS for GE Silicone II mentions the presence of organic tin (http://www1.mscdirect.com/MSDS/MSDS00016/06904908-20150704.PDF). The degree to which this might be an issue isn't really my concern. The last thing I'm going to do is choose a silicone that has the slightest chance of having any sort of toxicity just to save a few dollars.

Something further to keep in mind is that a crash might not be the best standard by which to judge the health of a tank. A crash implies that parameters are so out of spec as to cause death. One could engage in a profoundly unhealthy lifestyle for years and not die. If a tank seems fine for two years, and then just one fish starts to be unwell, it's thought that that's "just how things go." Aquarium inhabitants often die for unknown reasons, yet as long as the tank remains alive, we assume all is well. If we were to look closer, we might see that a particular fish died of cancer, a renal problem, a stroke, etc. that was precipitated by years of exposure to toxins. Of course, no one performs necropsies on blue tangs, so we'd never know.

Nearly ALL scientific research pertaining to reef tanks has been done for other purposes, and is simply adapted to our hobby by us. There is very little chance someone is going to get a four year degree, do a PhD in organic chemistry, and then be funded by the National Science Foundation to study the effects of ANYTHING related to fish tanks. If such studies do happen, they certainly wouldn't exhaustively look at the health impact of all that can go into a tank on the health of scores of different organisms. A few years back, someone (if might have even been Randy) requested donations to simply analyze the content of aquarium salt. This is about as basic as research gets, yet it hadn't been done up until recently. Almost nothing specifically related to the aquarium hobby has been addressed with a peer reviewed study. Most people think of aquariums as interesting furniture that is kept around for six months before being broken down and sold for $40 on Craigslist.

All this being said, can anyone recommend a neutral cure silicone?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don’t have any specific silicone I recommend, but I would not recommend any product that listed tin as an ingredient because there’s no easy way to know without trying if it will be an issue in a reef.

 

[Swingline77]

thanks Randy, I'll just go with the santoprene (as I discussed in the other thread).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

thanks Randy, I'll just go with the santoprene (as I discussed in the other thread).

Sounds good.

Happy Reefing. :)