Is there two different Dino’s here?

[Zack19919853]

I’m not sure if there are two types or not. I’ve been dosing silicates for two weeks now and as I seem them my tank is look even worse then it was without doing anything.

My nitrates were almost bottomed out.. now are at 20 ppm
Phosphates were also bottomed out and now are at .10 ppm

I posted a picture of the before (last picture)of dosing silicates from after (first picture)


Here is a video as well of Dino’s under microscope.

 

[KrisReef]

I'm too blind, but I think there is help

Chrysophytes, AKA "Golden Algae" - How to identify, treat and remove it from your tank!

A wikipedia image for chrysophytes. For some time, I've been dealing with a mystery ailment in my aquarium. A wispy, slimy mass grew on almost every exposed area of my tank - no matter what I had tried, it kept coming back and stubbornly stuck with me for months. I started my current tank in...

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[EnterName]

The quality is quite bad... based on the movement and the images there could be two dinoflagellate species (and some diatoms, which makes sense if you are adding silicates). The movement for some of those things looks similar to Ostreopsis sp., while the top right one in your first image looks like Prorocentrum sp.

I would need sharper images to identify them. You can find images for identification in the dinoflagellate identification guide or in my microscopy thread.

The tank looks very new, I wouldn't worry about it and not mess with the tank to let the microbiology establish in peace. After the ugly phase is over (6 - 12 months in depending on how the tank was started), you can think about non-invasive treatment methods (no chemicals).

It's also understandable that your nutrients bottomed out when adding silicates. Diatoms also require nutrients to grow and are really good in consuming nutrients even if they are very very low.

 

[Zack19919853]

The quality is quite bad... based on the movement and the images there could be two dinoflagellate species (and some diatoms, which makes sense if you are adding silicates). The movement for some of those things looks similar to Ostreopsis sp., while the top right one in your first image looks like Prorocentrum sp.

I would need sharper images to identify them. You can find images for identification in the dinoflagellate identification guide or in my microscopy thread.

The tank looks very new, I wouldn't worry about it and not mess with the tank to let the microbiology establish in peace. After the ugly phase is over (6 - 12 months in depending on how the tank was started), you can think about non-invasive treatment methods (no chemicals).

It's also understandable that your nutrients bottomed out when adding silicates. Diatoms also require nutrients to grow and are really good in consuming nutrients even if they are very very low.

Tanks is around 1 1/2 years old give or take

 

[EnterName]

The quality is quite bad... based on the movement and the images there could be two dinoflagellate species (and some diatoms, which makes sense if you are adding silicates). The movement for some of those things looks similar to Ostreopsis sp., while the top right one in your first image looks like Prorocentrum sp.

I would need sharper images to identify them. You can find images for identification in the dinoflagellate identification guide or in my microscopy thread.

The tank looks very new, I wouldn't worry about it and not mess with the tank to let the microbiology establish in peace. After the ugly phase is over (6 - 12 months in depending on how the tank was started), you can think about non-invasive treatment methods (no chemicals).

It's also understandable that your nutrients bottomed out when adding silicates. Diatoms also require nutrients to grow and are really good in consuming nutrients even if they are very very low.

Tanks is around 1 1/2 years old give or take

Hmm... Okay in that case the ugly phase is usually over.

How did you get the nutrient back to 20ppm NO3 and 0.1ppm PO4 if they nearly bottomed out? Ammonia/Nitrate and Phosphate dosing with stock solutions, or did you manage to achieve that with overfeeding?

Did you use live rock/sand when starting the tank or all dry/dead?

 

[Zack19919853]

Hmm... Okay in that case the ugly phase is usually over.

How did you get the nutrient back to 20ppm NO3 and 0.1ppm PO4 if they nearly bottomed out? Ammonia/Nitrate and Phosphate dosing with stock solutions, or did you manage to achieve that with overfeeding?

Did you use live rock/sand when starting the tank or all dry/dead?

I I have been dosing bright wells neonitro and neophos. I have also used reef roids which I heard was safe. And a tiny bit of over feeding. I used dry rock and live sand.

 

[Zack19919853]

I I have been dosing bright wells neonitro and neophos. I have also used reef roids which I heard was safe. And a tiny bit of over feeding. I used dry rock and live sand. Phosphate was harder to get up so that’s why I used the reef roids

 

[EnterName]

Just out of curiosity: which sand did you use (and which grain size)?

Together with your other thread and the fact that I saw one of those things turn and it was flat instead of spherical, I lean more towards Prorocentrum.

I don't think it matters too much. Besides Amphidinium they all migrate into the water at night more or less willingly.

 

[Zack19919853]

Just out of curiosity: which sand did you use (and which grain size)?

Together with your other thread and the fact that I saw one of those things turn and it was flat instead of spherical, I lean more towards Prorocentrum.

I don't think it matters too much. Besides Amphidinium they all migrate into the water at night more or less willingly.

Pink Fiji sand from caribsea and about .5 to 1.0 mm in size is what is specified. Should I get a uv light and is there one that is fairly priced? 400 dollars is a little steep for me. Also what size pump should I run on a uv light?

 

[EnterName]

Just out of curiosity: which sand did you use (and which grain size)?

Together with your other thread and the fact that I saw one of those things turn and it was flat instead of spherical, I lean more towards Prorocentrum.

I don't think it matters too much. Besides Amphidinium they all migrate into the water at night more or less willingly.

Pink Fiji sand from caribsea and about .5 to 1.0 mm in size is what is specified. Should I get a uv light and is there one that is fairly priced? 400 dollars is a little steep for me. Also what size pump should I run on a uv light?

Hmm... Okay there is this current theory that coarse sand (especially special grade) is very beneficial to dinoflagellates. But Fiji Pink was tested and considered safe as it is much finer.

UV sterilizers can help but it's not a given. To be honest, I don't know if there are any especially good or affordable products. You will need one that is appropriately sized for your tank and it should specify how much flow you need to push through. I'm currently using an appropriately sized Eheim ReeflexUV, but without comparison to the effectiveness of other products I'm not comfortable recommending something just because it didn't cause trouble yet :D

Note that running a UV sterilizer doesn't guarantee success. Instead of sterilizing the open water column you can also try targeted UV sterilization if you don't have an acrylic tank (https://3dreefing.com/products/sand-bed-uv-sweeper). I'm always a bit concerned about the residual microbiology that's living on the substrate but some people report great success.
@Moe K might be able to say if your case can be treated properly with the UV sweeper.

 

[Moe K]

It does look like prorocentrum to me also but a little blurry. Those dinos are benthic and go deeper into the sand at night. A UV sterilizer plumbed in will most likely not help and could potentially not help in recovery since it will also sterilize beneficial bacteria in the water column.

If you are already dosing silicates and have a bloom of diatoms then I would continue with that method for as long as you can until you see no more dinos on a slide. I think the trick with silicate dosing for diatoms is to get the diatoms very thick to block out the light to the dinos on the sand. Others argue that it works because it promotes biodiversity. Either way I dont think anyone is 100% sure lol.

Fiji pink is the better sand IMO and I think you can beat it relatively easy as apposed to having more course sand like special grade. The UV Sweeper can be your plan B but I don't think you need it quite yet. I also don't recommend using the UV Sweeper while dosing silicates as it will also eliminate your diatoms. It is either or on the methods and should not be both at the same time.

Dosing some bottled bacteria like microbelift special blend or Hydrospace Probio seems to help a lot. If you can not handle the smell of those then microbacter7 seems to be the next most beneficial. I have been testing Waste-away but that seems that it can be too aggressive.

 

[EnterName]

It does look like prorocentrum to me also but a little blurry. Those dinos are benthic and go deeper into the sand at night.

I think it depends on the species. They may be less willing to migrate into the open water, but they do it. That's probably one of the few examples where short blackouts can make sense. I wouldn't rely on it though.

I think the trick with silicate dosing for diatoms is to get the diatoms very thick to block out the light to the dinos on the sand. Others argue that it works because it promotes biodiversity. Either way I dont think anyone is 100% sure lol.

Many dinoflagellates seem to do fine even with pretty dense diatom populations. I see it regularly:

(I know these are Ostreopsis but I've seen the same phenomenon with Prorocentrum)​

That's why I think you are right that a lot of silicate is required to actually get rid of some dinoflagellates.

Dosing some bottled bacteria like microbelift special blend or Hydrospace Probio seems to help a lot. If you can not handle the smell of those then microbacter7 seems to be the next most beneficial. I have been testing Waste-away but that seems that it can be too aggressive.

We are currently looking into the bacteria composition of some bottled bacteria products. Would be interesting to see if certain bacteria families are what makes the difference.


By the way props to you for not just instantly selling your product and instead suggesting it as Plan B/alternative.

 

[Moe K]

I think it depends on the species. They may be less willing to migrate into the open water, but they do it. That's probably one of the few examples where short blackouts can make sense. I wouldn't rely on it though.

Many dinoflagellates seem to do fine even with pretty dense diatom populations. I see it regularly:

(I know these are Ostreopsis but I've seen the same phenomenon with Prorocentrum)​

That's why I think you are right that a lot of silicate is required to actually get rid of some dinoflagellates.

We are currently looking into the bacteria composition of some bottled bacteria products. Would be interesting to see if certain bacteria families are what makes the difference.


By the way props to you for not just instantly selling your product and instead suggesting it as Plan B/alternative.

Thanks! I checked out that other thread. Nice work. It is extremely difficult testing bottle bacteria to know beyond just anecdotally how much each one is helping over the other. I am working on it and trying to share what I observe as best I can.

 

[Zack19919853]

Hmm... Okay there is this current theory that coarse sand (especially special grade) is very beneficial to dinoflagellates. But Fiji Pink was tested and considered safe as it is much finer.

UV sterilizers can help but it's not a given. To be honest, I don't know if there are any especially good or affordable products. You will need one that is appropriately sized for your tank and it should specify how much flow you need to push through. I'm currently using an appropriately sized Eheim ReeflexUV, but without comparison to the effectiveness of other products I'm not comfortable recommending something just because it didn't cause trouble yet :D

Note that running a UV sterilizer doesn't guarantee success. Instead of sterilizing the open water column you can also try targeted UV sterilization if you don't have an acrylic tank (https://3dreefing.com/products/sand-bed-uv-sweeper). I'm always a bit concerned about the residual microbiology that's living on the substrate but some people report great success.
@Moe K might be able to say if your case can be treated properly with the UV sweeper.

I thought about a uv sweepe. Just wanted to see if I can tackle it using silicates first am hoping that to be a last resort option. I really appreciate every piece of advice yall are giving me definitely helps

 

[Zack19919853]

It does look like prorocentrum to me also but a little blurry. Those dinos are benthic and go deeper into the sand at night. A UV sterilizer plumbed in will most likely not help and could potentially not help in recovery since it will also sterilize beneficial bacteria in the water column.

If you are already dosing silicates and have a bloom of diatoms then I would continue with that method for as long as you can until you see no more dinos on a slide. I think the trick with silicate dosing for diatoms is to get the diatoms very thick to block out the light to the dinos on the sand. Others argue that it works because it promotes biodiversity. Either way I dont think anyone is 100% sure lol.

Fiji pink is the better sand IMO and I think you can beat it relatively easy as apposed to having more course sand like special grade. The UV Sweeper can be your plan B but I don't think you need it quite yet. I also don't recommend using the UV Sweeper while dosing silicates as it will also eliminate your diatoms. It is either or on the methods and should not be both at the same time.

Dosing some bottled bacteria like microbelift special blend or Hydrospace Probio seems to help a lot. If you can not handle the smell of those then microbacter7 seems to be the next most beneficial. I have been testing Waste-away but that seems that it can be too aggressive.

I have been dosing microbactor 7 but I may try a different brand you mentioned thanks man. Do you think I should run lights at a shorter rate. Instead of 8 hours run for 4 to 6 hours. I tried the blue spectrum but it seemed like it fueled the Dino population. Although I’ll say white lights seems to help keep them at bay or at least slow them down some.

 

[Moe K]

I have been dosing microbactor 7 but I may try a different brand you mentioned thanks man. Do you think I should run lights at a shorter rate. Instead of 8 hours run for 4 to 6 hours. I tried the blue spectrum but it seemed like it fueled the Dino population. Although I’ll say white lights seems to help keep them at bay or at least slow them down some.

I recommend running them on the whiter spectrum. I am not sure how much lowering the intensity will help as you will also not grow as much diatoms. Worth a try though. Just keep watch on your corals and if they look like they are struggling increase intensity and duration back to normal while keeping it on the whiter spectrum. Whiter spectrum seems to help since it can grow more algae to compete. That's the theory.