It is exciting to see you guys have great success on immune tank. Recently I introduced velvet into the dt, and 5 of 11 fishes survived. I have been trying to feed diy frozen and fresh seafood(mussel, salmon, krill, selecon) I am seeing the remain fish start building their immunity. Any tips on when can I add new fish to my DT?
It's all @Paul B's fault... my journey to an immune reef (hopefully!)
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Greenstreet.1
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I would say this when I first got into the hobby I did not qt anything and all my fishes did great still always feed frozen mix with Selcon and some garlic I would chop up and mix in.
I lost more fish in qt now that I did then [emoji848][emoji848][emoji848]
I lost more fish in qt now that I did then [emoji848][emoji848][emoji848]
QT is really stressful on fish but it does get the parasites out if the fish can stay alive. What’s your thought on immune tank? Will frozen fresh mussel, fresh smelt fish, frozen krill, and fresh wild salmon do the trick?
Greenstreet.1
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I feed that mix now along with some other raw seafoods blended in I also add fish oil, whale oil, vita chem and brightwell omega 3 and went back to and adding fresh chopped garlic to the daily feeds.
I can’t say if they are immune but all is well and looking great added some yellow glider anthias a few weeks back after a few weeks of qt with GC only and they are fine and eating like hogs.
Greenstreet.1
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As you ask that I’m feeding them right now [emoji23]they get the same mix my Dt get at the same time everyday oh sorry I feed both tanks ROE first thing in the am before lights on also just remembered. They go straight to my DY. I must say all has been well since the change back. I have 4 diamond tail wrasse, bluestar wrasse and a sunburst goby in qt now all doing great no meds added yet got them last Sunday. Just setup my other 20g qt have some more fish coming this sunday.
I add spirulina also to they food twice a month also I feed them so much I forget[emoji23]
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Greenstreet.1
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Never seen the need to. If I do heavy meds after treatment i do 2 25% water change watch them for about a week then in they go.
Paul B
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Kevin, if you feed those foods there is no need to add Selcon. Selcon will just wash of wet food and will be lost in your tank supplying no benefit. If you feel the need to add Selcon, you can put a little on dry food like a few pellets, freeze dried something or flakes. I do not recommend any of those foods but they are a medium to add Selcon.
The fish will get all they need from the shellfish you are feeding.
Those foods will do the trick as long as you buy them fresh and freeze them yourself, that way they will maintain some of the living bacteria which is what fish need.
To answer Mns question as to how bacteria from northern waters survive in a reef tank. The tide pools where I collect go from a temp in the high 80s in the summer to about 35 degrees in the winter. I take the bacteria as mud there and I am sure it is full of living bacteria. I can even collect amphipods under the ice or in the 85 degree tide pool water in the summer. The bacteria don't seem to care much about temperature.
I collect most of it here in the summer at low tide. At high tide the water rises 8' here.
In the winter, that water looks like this.
How often do you refill the oxidator? Are they reliable for say a 2 week vacation? Would one of the larger units be sufficient for 150l? I have had success with UV for algae control, ive never used one for pest reduction, cant say its reduced parasites or not, also only used on fw, and there the only pest i ever really deal with is anchor worm on that system. which anecdotally i havent seen since ive installed 6 years ago, but ill take that with a grain of sand. I have one on a planted tank too, which i cant say does anything at all. Is part of my canister filter, i actually have that part turned off now.
Thank you, Paul! I hope I won’t lose anymore fish to disease by adapting this method.Kevin, if you feed those foods there is no need to add Selcon. Selcon will just wash of wet food and will be lost in your tank supplying no benefit. If you feel the need to add Selcon, you can put a little on dry food like a few pellets, freeze dried something or flakes. I do not recommend any of those foods but they are a medium to add Selcon.
The fish will get all they need from the shellfish you are feeding.
Those foods will do the trick as long as you buy them fresh and freeze them yourself, that way they will maintain some of the living bacteria which is what fish need.
To answer Mns question as to how bacteria from northern waters survive in a reef tank. The tide pools where I collect go from a temp in the high 80s in the summer to about 35 degrees in the winter. I take the bacteria as mud there and I am sure it is full of living bacteria. I can even collect amphipods under the ice or in the 85 degree tide pool water in the summer. The bacteria don't seem to care much about temperature.
I collect most of it here in the summer at low tide. At high tide the water rises 8' here.
In the winter, that water looks like this.
Paul B
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Kevin, remember the fish also need to be exposed to parasites in order to be immune to them. Fish from the sea will already be immune but in their weakened, stressful state in a store, they will need some time in a healthy envirnment for that immunity to repel parasites.
I believe my tank has both velvet and ich. Do you mean I should put the new fish into non med tank and feed them up a week before moving them into the DT? What’s your thought on tank raised clown as they might not been exposed to parasites before?
I have 2 of the Oxydator A models and I use 9% peroxide but if you use 6% they will last 2 approximately 2 weeks before they need refilling depending on temperature
Not sure what you mean re larger model as there are 5 in the range, you may mean the A or the larger W model. A model W would last longer but it's a fair bit bigger than the A. An A with 6% peroxide and 2 catalysts might stretch to 2 weeks with one catalyst it will most certainly last 2 weeks but will be underpowered but better than nothing. Personally, if you can't get the W or it is too large to fit then I would use 2 x model As with 6% peroxide and 1 catalyst each to last the 2 weeks,
Paul B
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If your tank already has ich and velvet, that is good. No need to add any. I do not use any separate tanks for anything. All fish go straight from the bag into the tank (with some acclimation for half an hour or so)
Fish in a healthy tank should act like a healthy fish in the sea and come out to eat and play with the other fish in a day or so. Some species will hide for a few days especially if they see something swimming around that will chase it like a closely related male.
Many people feel the fish they buy are shy or timid. That is mostly from the stress of capture and holding in a dealer tank with few hiding places and unrelated species with them. Fish have a short memory and very shortly will forget that if they are fed the correct foods and are not bullied. Keeping them in an "observation" tank or quarantine tank first will only add to their stress.
Just be sure your DT has plenty of hiding places and target fed that fish where he is hiding if he is.
I can't comment on tank raised clownfish because I never had any, except the ones I raised and in my tank, they would be immune. But clownfish are probably the most hardy fish and if a clownfish dies from disease, something is really wrong.
Good luck
Because I have been in this hobby a long time, in fact, longer than I care to remember... come to think of it it's just as well as I am an old codger and can't remember much passed last night, I often get asked for advice on various disease. Why they think I should know much about such irritating things I don't really know apart from the fact old codgers should know just about everything there is to know about anything at all. I only know everything about everything to my grandchildren but then as the eldest of 6 (another was due last Tuesday but is staging a sit in against a war in Syria these kids start their protests earlier and earlier these days) is only 5 I, of course, do indeed.
Anyway I digress, I am not sure if I should be embarrassed or pleased to inform them I have very little knowledge of such things and that there are far more experienced people of forums who know all about medicating fish with the various poisons and stress inducing treatments etc. When I tell them I have not had a serious outbreak of disease in any of my aquariums for around 25 years (could be more as 25 is just a number I wish I was again) and am not the best to advise them they look at me rather strangely even though I can't see them through my laptop. They say OK thanks and I think they go off in the search of somebody who regularly loses fish through itch etc. They are better informed in how to advise on the various potions, snake oils and stress inducing treatment of their fish.
Maybe I should simply check out all those posts on so many forums asking about this or that disease note the answers and copy and paste them back to them. I would seem really smart to the enquirer and he/she may even save a fish or two from whatever he/she was trying to poison or even cure. Am not smart as I don't have an ology, I do have sons and daughters that have pieces of paper that say they are smart as they have ologies but when it comes to many things especially if it regards DIY then its a call to dad. My 2 sons hardly know which end of a hammer to hold (Hammer a tool you use to bang things with apart from Pauls supermodels you can't bang them with a hammer or they will cry).
I once told both my sons that when I die you will inherit so many tools you will probably sell them to a scrap metal merchant as you will have no need for them as you won't have a clue what most are. I don't think you can cure diseases with a hammer, I think you need a socket set for that. You can remove an itch cyst with a socket set or spanner but it has to be very small so probably not worth it.
Anyway I digress, I am not sure if I should be embarrassed or pleased to inform them I have very little knowledge of such things and that there are far more experienced people of forums who know all about medicating fish with the various poisons and stress inducing treatments etc. When I tell them I have not had a serious outbreak of disease in any of my aquariums for around 25 years (could be more as 25 is just a number I wish I was again) and am not the best to advise them they look at me rather strangely even though I can't see them through my laptop. They say OK thanks and I think they go off in the search of somebody who regularly loses fish through itch etc. They are better informed in how to advise on the various potions, snake oils and stress inducing treatment of their fish.
Maybe I should simply check out all those posts on so many forums asking about this or that disease note the answers and copy and paste them back to them. I would seem really smart to the enquirer and he/she may even save a fish or two from whatever he/she was trying to poison or even cure. Am not smart as I don't have an ology, I do have sons and daughters that have pieces of paper that say they are smart as they have ologies but when it comes to many things especially if it regards DIY then its a call to dad. My 2 sons hardly know which end of a hammer to hold (Hammer a tool you use to bang things with apart from Pauls supermodels you can't bang them with a hammer or they will cry).
I once told both my sons that when I die you will inherit so many tools you will probably sell them to a scrap metal merchant as you will have no need for them as you won't have a clue what most are. I don't think you can cure diseases with a hammer, I think you need a socket set for that. You can remove an itch cyst with a socket set or spanner but it has to be very small so probably not worth it.
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This isn't true. Cancer is a 'disease', toxins in the tank cause 'disease'. When your fish starve that is a 'disease'. If you're trying to suggest that your fish never die of infectious disease (parasites or bacteria) - I apologetically don't believe you can document that. You may be able to say they dont die of cryptocaryon, but statistically, every living thing is susceptible to a pathogen if it is present in a high enough condition. Even with a perfect immune system.
Scientific proof of what? That is anecdote. There is a reason that scientific institutions use quarantine methods in their aquaria. Thats because its been proven to work. (Think the Seattle aquarium, zoos, etc.) - https://www.vin.com/apputil/content/defaultadv1.aspx?id=3976325&pid=11285&print=1
Most large aquaria in the world quarantine their fish/corals in some manner - again - since you dont clearly define exactly what you mean by quarantine its hard to know exactly what you're talking about.
I agree with you that a lot of the 'stuff' people use is probably not worth the effort or trouble. I never have had to use a medication prior to placing a fish in a display tank. The reason most fish don't die of 'old age' is that most people don't keep aquaria as long as you do. They get tired of the hobby, they get tired of the fish and get new ones, they have some disaster, etc, etc. I would suggest to you that most of the 'problems' with certain types of quarantine result from people not doing it correctly.
I have a goniopora in my tank that started the size of a ping pong ball. it is now the size of a soft ball. Should I post that my method somehow means that the other 90 percent of people that try to raise these coral fail? I would suggest that I'm lucky.
I had 5 Bartletts anthias - and though people say its impossible to keep a school they did quite well for months. Then as luck would have it, within a week 3 jumped out of the tank. There are now 2 left. Now everyone would say its impossible to keep one male and one female anther together in a tank. Should I post that they are wrong? I suggest that Im just lucky that they 'get along'.
I have 2 adult Gold flake angels. They are 'best friends'. Does that mean that I should suggest that everyone should keep 2 adult angels together in the same tank? Or am I lucky.
I have a huge piece of green star polyp that I've had for years - I happen to like it - it does quite will with my hard corals - and it hasn't spread. Does that mean that all the people that avoid GSP as if it is a plague are 'wrong' - or am I just lucky?
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I was going to say 'no offense' before answering this - but - I think what you did is 'cruel' and unethical. It is one thing to accidentally have an infection develop in a tank, its another thing to introduce an unknown amount of a pathogen into a tank on purpose without knowing the concentration you're adding, etc. It has been well studied and there is lots of literature that shows that for example with cryptocaryon that there is a certain 'LD50' (a concentration of parasite that when added to the tank will kill approximately 50 percent of the inhabitants). This concentration is then used to see whether an intervention (like a vaccine, or a treatment) is effective. Btw, the use of this method is actively debated as to whether its ethical to do these types of experiments (even in fish). So lets say you added 10 times the 'LD50', you would probably kill all of the fish every time. If you added 1/10 of the 'LD 50' less than 50% will die. Part of it is immunity, part of it is statistics and dosage
Hopefully, you wouldn't take a litter of 10 puppies and expose them to distemper to try to make them immune...
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