The world is flat or we wouldn't have oceans. You try and figure out how to get ocean water to stick on the side of a ball and get back to me.The Pope excommunicated Galaliao because he built this telescope and saw that the Earth wasn't flat. The Pope could have looked through the telescope and saw for himself, but he was afraid he would find out he was wrong and couldn't understand that so the world remained flat for many years.
The world is flat or we wouldn't have oceans. You try and figure out how to get ocean water to stick on the side of a ball and get back to me.
If I buy a new fish and it is not obviously dying which I got for free, In all the years I have been keeping new fish I don't remember ever losing a fish to a disease that it got from anything in my tank. Like never. They should have, but they don't and I am not sure of the exact mechanism as to why that happens. Remember I am not talking about 10 or 15 years here as that wouldn't prove anything. Maybe it's the food I supply or something to do with my water chemistry. I would be guessing if I posted something. But if none of them have gotten sick in 40 years, it must be something. I have a large, old copperband butterfly that I got as a baby and added him right in. I probably got him right from the shipping bag at the dealer because I get a lot of my fish that way, but not all of them. He was tiny and copperbands seem to be, by many accounts a delicate fish. No problem. All my bleenies and gobies are also a delicate species, no problem and they all die of old age as do most of my pipefish and all of my bluestripe pipefish. You can go back in my many years old thread and see when I got all my fish and when they died. None from disease. I posted many times stories with pictures of me adding fish with obvious parasites all over them. You may not understand how I could do that, but that doesn't change the fact that I can and do do it all the time. Disease is a non event for me and I feel it is a shame more people let their fish get sick, then try to cure them rather than just make it so they don't get sick. I don't understand that at all.
As for that Russian Roulette thing, I think we can rule that out because the gun they use for that game has 6 shots in it so it is a one in six way to lose (or win) I have added dozens of fish with no problems.
I do know how my existing fish do not get sick from any new additions. They seem to be immune from "everything" . You will say, that it is impossible for that to be true, and yet it is. People have been saying things are impossible for centuries and here we are. The world isn't flat, we went to the moon and Myley Cyrus became a star. But eventually many of those impossible things come to pass. They pass even to the people who don't believe it or understand it.
The Pope excommunicated Galaliao because he built this telescope and saw that the Earth wasn't flat. The Pope could have looked through the telescope and saw for himself, but he was afraid he would find out he was wrong and couldn't understand that so the world remained flat for many years.
Just because we can't or won't believe something even if it is proven doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I have many times shown pictures of my fish spawning but have still yet to see even one fish except clowns that spawn and the fry grew in a fully quarantined tank. Healthy fish always spawn, it's just what they do. Healthy fish also always only die of old age or jumping out, thats what they do. Immune fish "never" get sick, never. Thats just life. It even happens if we don't understand it.
I can say something like Humans can't live longer than 125 years. It' may not be a scientific fact because it is hard to prove a negative, but if in three million years the oldest Human (recorded) only lived to 122 years, I will consider that a fact. (Not counting Moses as I wasn't there)
Here is my method, fish eating healthy food with living bacteria in it. Mostly clams that I bought live. This is a very hard system.
(that red fireclown is maybe 27 years old and his mate is maybe 20, they spawn every few days but I don't consider that anything because they are clowns and will spawn in wet cardboard)
In alkaline environments h2o2 rapidly degrades. The other formulation may be a stabilized version but h2o2 does not take 48 hours to degrade. The experiments I read show that they exposed the fish to only 30 minutes of an h2o2 bath. The highest concentration killed all the fish. The other two lower seemed to help. Lots of things a kill free swimming parasites. The problem is when it kills the rest of the things on the tank as well
It’s well known that a certain percentage of fish will develope partial or even complete immunity to ich. The more well fed they are probably the better. But it would be surprising that changing to feeding mysis shrimp has anything to do with their survovalI'll start with a disclaimer. As far as fish immune system goes or reef tank environment goes, I am a noob compared to either Paul or Lasse or some of you more knowledgeable reefers. All my experience is based on listening (well reading) to you guys talk, decipher and analyze reef and fish issues. With that being said, few months ago, I started a thread here about Ich. I saw my firefish and gramma were scratching, flashing and the whole nine yards. I didn't see the ich marking but I knew it was matter of days. I knew I was going to have to start a treatment regiment very soon. I didn't have the time or energy to catch these fish. Plus, I'd have to take out everything if I wanted to treat them in a QT tank. Good luck catching a firefish in a reef tank with rock all over the place.
I lurk on R2R pretty much everyday and most of the time reading what people have to say. I've been following this thread for a while, so I decided to try my hand on feeding nothing but mysis shrimp to my fish. I was feeding only NLS pallet before then. I don't know what happened after I started feeding only mysis but I no longer see any of the fish scratching or doing the ich dance. If anything my fish are more active. Do I believe my fish are immune? Absolutely not! My experience is totally anecdotal. But I think the method Paul, Lasse and Gweeds use has merit to it. This method may not be for everyone, but I am not going to knock it. For me just feeding raw food instead of processed pallet made the big difference. I don't think my tank is immune, but I do believe my fish has better immunity. Because I think I still have Ich in my tank. Just that the feeding has helped my fish fight it.
But the quality of food is part of the key and I would be surprised if feeding mysis didn't at least add to the fishes ability to fed of disease and help with their survival. Whether mysis on it's own could do that is another matter but I what I can tell you is that I feed frozen mysis regular amongst other foods some of which I make myself as I have reported before and IMO mysis is a mighty fine food to feed your fish
The only major fish lose I have ever had was when I went away on holiday and the temperature went through the roof. I was using HQI lights back then and my neighbour was supposed to be looking after my tank. Other than that which had nothing to do with disease, of course, I have not had a fish die of itch velvet etc in 25 years maybe longer. What I do with my tank is in many ways is similar to Paul, I buy fresh seafood and process it myself, I grow pods outside in the summer an now and again hatch brine shrimp. I also add fish oils etc etc most of which has been well documented here on R2R a number of times in different posts. BTW I have used Oxydators which utilises H2O2 again the use of them I have well documented on here.
If you are saying you have never had a newly introduced fish die in your tank in 40 years I’m sorry I don’t believe it.[/QUOTE
I did not say that. I said this:
I have of course lost new fish, the majority of them jumped out, were bullied or starved. But not from disease they got from something in my tank. If you want to quote me, please quote me correctly because a misplaced word makes a big difference.
The sponges stick all the water in place.The world is flat or we wouldn't have oceans. You try and figure out how to get ocean water to stick on the side of a ball and get back to me.
As the member here with probably more years of experience than anyone else here, (but not the smartest or best looking) I think I know exactly if a fish has a disease or not. A fish acts different if it has parasites and every fish that dies in my tank or jumps out, I autopsy. None of the fish that died in or under my tank ever had even one paraiste. Fish I buy I am sure have parasites, but I rarely autopsy living fish.
(Once a lawyer asked a coroner in court, how many autopsies he performed on dead people? He answered "All the people I autopsied were dead!)
Parasites are very easy to spot and there are no other terminal diseases a new fish would get from my fish because they are still not dying. As I mentioned, the fact that you don't believe it doesn't mean it isn't true in my tank or Atolls. We just saw the light after many years and we know our fish won't die from disease and we don't have to care if it is believed. Our fish believe it and they are living proof that it works.
Rockstar, thank you for responding. Feeding mysis will almost always be better than feeding pellets. But you would do better using clams. Mysis have good "meat" in them but most of a mysis is shell which is indigestible and just wasted. It is not even calcium which would be beneficial. The shells fill up the gut of the fish while not providing any nutrition. But the roughage probably prevents constipation.
Ditto.
Atoll is a very accomplished reefer and his tank is awesome. His fish are immune because he uses many of the same methods I use and fish treated like that can't help being immune. Quarantining and foregoing food with live bacteria in it and keeping parasites away from fish is counterproductive and sure way to kill your fish. (I am still waiting for anyone on here with a fully quarantined fish that spawned and the fry grew. No clowns)
I also don't remember ever losing a tank to a disease but if I did it was in the early 70s when me or anyone else didn't know what the heck we were doing. But in those days I used copper like everyone else in the form of pennies. I was here keeping fish when the salt water hobby started. I think it was on a Tuesday
Atoll, I and many other successful reefers have nothing to prove. Everyone else don't believe it because it goes against what most people have been taught for decades. Doctors now are giving much less antibiotics so their patients can use their immune system to heal themselves rather than trying to short circuit the process which leads to more illness. The disease forum is filled with fish that died in quarantine. Look at when people try to quarantine copperband butterflies or moorish Idols. It usually doesn't go well for the fish.
Fish should almost never get sick. If they do, it is almost always our fault, not the fish or the dealer. They rarely get internal problems like swim bladder disorders, kidney or something else just as we do, but very rarely.
I can probably count on one hand how many fish I lost in 60 years from some internal problem.
In this very thread is the story of my heniochus... the pics I posted up clearly show velvet... he was hiding from the light, swimming into flow, the whole 9 yards.
