Kh params

[lilfish717]

Ok, I'm still new to reefing. I'm trying to get the right params. I been using my tap water which is about 17dkh. I realise that's high. Will that effect anything negatively. I think here's where my mistake is. I bought ro water from my lfs tonight lower my nitrates because my tap has high nitrates. I realised some of the stuff in my tank weren't appreciating my changes. After all that I tested a little bit of Rodi water I had left and found out that it is about half of my tap water with a dkh of about 8. That probably drastically changed my kh levels. My questions from here are... Will high kh swings effect coral/fish. Will high nitrate swings effect them. From here on should I continue to use r/o water and get my tanks water down to 8dkh or go back to my tap water and get it back up to 17dkh. I have no good test to measure ph but did this likely effect anything with my ph levels? Thanks for the help. :(

 

[lilfish717]

Some more info to further help. I just checked my tanks kh and it was 12dkh. So I'm other words it words my kh went from 17dkh to 12dkh over the time period of 2 days with a 1gph(?)drip method.

 

[NS Mike D]

in general swings are not good in reef tanks. Corals like stability. There is some consensus that there is a correlation between Alk and NO3/PO4. Tanks seem to be successful at either low ALK and low NO3/PO4 or high ALk and high NO3/PO4.

I often link Red Seas published target parameters for different types of tanks for their coral care algaeprogram as a starting point

here you go
https://www.redseafish.com/reef-care-recipes/

 

[ScottR]

Ok, I'm still new to reefing. I'm trying to get the right params. I been using my tap water which is about 17dkh. I realise that's high. Will that effect anything negatively. I think here's where my mistake is. I bought ro water from my lfs tonight lower my nitrates because my tap has high nitrates. I realised some of the stuff in my tank weren't appreciating my changes. After all that I tested a little bit of Rodi water I had left and found out that it is about half of my tap water with a dkh of about 8. That probably drastically changed my kh levels. My questions from here are... Will high kh swings effect coral/fish. Will high nitrate swings effect them. From here on should I continue to use r/o water and get my tanks water down to 8dkh or go back to my tap water and get it back up to 17dkh. I have no good test to measure ph but did this likely effect anything with my ph levels? Thanks for the help. :(

What test kit are you using?

 

[lilfish717]

in general swings are not good in reef tanks. Corals like stability. There is some consensus that there is a correlation between Alk and NO3/PO4. Tanks seem to be successful at either low ALK and low NO3/PO4 or high ALk and high NO3/PO4.

I often link Red Seas published target parameters for different types of tanks for their coral care algae/mgt program as a starting point

here you go

https://www.redseafish.com/reef-care-program/algae-management-program/

So I definitely had the high nitrate high kh correlation. With about 80 nitrates to 17dkh. I didnt think my chalices were appreciating it and thats one of my favorite corals I plan on a bunch of. 1 was fine the other I received bad and was staying bad. I really don't think they liked this change though. I picked them both up today to look at them because they werent looking good and a whole inch(litterly everything) of tissue literly flew off the one that was bad from the start. And the one that was OK is all gone besides literly only 2 eyes with nothing around them. I don't know what to do with them. Do you suggest I keep my nitrates and kh high then? And never go with my lfs ro water again. I just thought 80 ppm nitrates was really bad. It always seems to be something. :/ Also forgot to add o have super bad (forget the name) algae problem. It's the kind that literly blankets everything. Everything that even starts getting damaged can't recover assuming due to the algae instantly blanketing the damage within 24hours.

 

[lilfish717]

What test kit are you using?

Not the best... Api reef master. And I also have the test strips from api.

 

[ScottR]

Not the best... Api reef master. And I also have the test strips from api.

I have two bits of advice for you: most people here won’t recommend API kits. I’ve read -haven’t tried - that they’re inaccurate for saltwater tanks. Salifert makes reliable kits and are affordable.

Because your water is seemingly low quality, you can get a water filter to put on your tap supply if you can’t get a RO/DI system going. Water filters aren’t perfect but will filter out a lot of unwanted stuff from your tap.

Good luck!

 

[lilfish717]

I have two bits of advice for you: most people here won’t recommend API kits. I’ve read -haven’t tried - that they’re inaccurate for saltwater tanks. Salifert makes reliable kits and are affordable.

Because your water is seemingly low quality, you can get a water filter to put on your tap supply if you can’t get a RO/DI system going. Water filters aren’t perfect but will filter out a lot of unwanted stuff from your tap.

Good luck!

Yea, I don't like them. Super hard to read also. I'm going to drop the extra 25$ for the red sea. I heard that's good. Never heard of this filter. So what all will it take out? I currently use I think it's called Seachem safe and the other stuff with aloe in it for my tap water. Do you recommend to get a Rodi and just get my dkh down to 8 and nitrates to 0? Or keep using my tap and keep nitrates and kh super high. I wish someone could help me with all this stuff. Everything I read seems to be different. My stuff goes OK for some time and then something like this happens. Or like how one of my powerheads just falls into the sand and covers everything up damaging corals.

 

[lilfish717]

in general swings are not good in reef tanks. Corals like stability. There is some consensus that there is a correlation between Alk and NO3/PO4. Tanks seem to be successful at either low ALK and low NO3/PO4 or high ALk and high NO3/PO4.

I often link Red Seas published target parameters for different types of tanks for their coral care algaeprogram as a starting point

here you go
https://www.redseafish.com/reef-care-recipes/

I just red that. It looks good. More stuff like this would be helpful. A few things though. #1 they tell you to dose this and this a day. But how can they determine how much to dose considering everyone has different water and does different types of water changes etc.? #2 theyre trying to get you to buy their products. What if I don't like something of theirs and want to supplement something for a different product.---
Do you use this method? It does seem like a good method.

 

[NS Mike D]

Yea, I don't like them. Super hard to read also. I'm going to drop the extra 25$ for the red sea. I heard that's good. Never heard of this filter. So what all will it take out? I currently use I think it's called Seachem safe and the other stuff with aloe in it for my tap water. Do you recommend to get a Rodi and just get my dkh down to 8 and nitrates to 0? Or keep using my tap and keep nitrates and kh super high. I wish someone could help me with all this stuff. Everything I read seems to be different. My stuff goes OK for some time and then something like this happens. Or like how one of my powerheads just falls into the sand and covers everything up damaging corals.

RODI gets you a good starting point with O (or real close to it) Total Dissolves Solids - things like copper can kill.

Without a full report of your tap water, you'll be guessing, and while possible, tap water tends to lead to more problems. Also, there are two times we use water. One is saltwater for water changes and the second is fresh water to replace what evaporates - aka top off. It's really important to use zero TDS water for topping off, otherwise you'll be concentrating whatever wasn't consumed.

With 0 TDS for making saltwater, you'll end up very close to what the recipe of the salt mix states on their label

I think the high DKH in your tap is going to make it difficult to maintain stable water parameters. Also, Alk should be in a ratio with CA and Mg. Alk and Ca can precipitate out fast if the ratios get unbalanced.

 

[NS Mike D]

I just red that. It looks good. More stuff like this would be helpful. A few things though. #1 they tell you to dose this and this a day. But how can they determine how much to dose considering everyone has different water and does different types of water changes etc.? #2 theyre trying to get you to buy their products. What if I don't like something of theirs and want to supplement something for a different product.---
Do you use this method? It does seem like a good method.

Watch the mixed reef video. The do state the dosing amounts are approximate and to test regularly to dial in to your tank

the only thing you should be concerned with dosing right now is Alk and Ca. But you need a base line with which to work. Basically, after a water change you take a reading. Don't add anything (other than topping off o TDS water) and measure to determine how much ALk and Ca your corals are consuming. That will tell you how much to dose.


The only thing I dose is ALk and Ca using kalkwasser in my top off water. Before using this method I was dosing daily with 2 part (Alk and Ca separately) . Once I was confident I knew my consumption rates I was able to switch to kalk, but only because it was convenient and didn't need to buy dosing pumps. Since my tank uses ALk faster than CA I do supplement with small amounts of manual dosing of ALk if needed between water changes.

I don't dose the other items in their program since I have a nano tank with 2 sumps and no skimmer and 20% weekly water changes so that keeps my NO3 , PO4 and trace elements in check

 

[lilfish717]

RODI gets you a good starting point with O (or real close to it) Total Dissolves Solids - things like copper can kill.

Without a full report of your tap water, you'll be guessing, and while possible, tap water tends to lead to more problems. Also, there are two times we use water. One is saltwater for water changes and the second is fresh water to replace what evaporates - aka top off. It's really important to use zero TDS water for topping off, otherwise you'll be concentrating whatever wasn't consumed.

With 0 TDS for making saltwater, you'll end up very close to what the recipe of the salt mix states on their label

I think the high DKH in your tap is going to make it difficult to maintain stable water parameters. Also, Alk should be in a ratio with CA and Mg. Alk and Ca can precipitate out fast if the ratios get unbalanced.

So I'm supposed to add freshwater for topping off? Wow didn't know that. I guess makes sense since it only evaporated the fresh water. My calcium has been good minus the normal intake from lps. I don't test for mg. Is it important to test for this?

 

[lilfish717]

the only thing you should be concerned with dosing right now is Alk and Ca. But you need a base line with which to work. Basically, after a water change you take a reading. Don't add anything (other than topping off o TDS water) and measure to determine how much ALk and Ca your corals are consuming. That will tell you how much to dose.

So according to that reading a good baseline would be 11.5. Which I would just go for 12 in that case. I have a mixed reef tank. Would you agree with that? That's what I'm currently at now. If I did a water change with the Rodi water that would take my kh down lower since the Rodi is 8dkh. Sorry I'm a little confused with what you're saying. I wouldn't want to dose it to my tanks 12dkh?

 

[NS Mike D]

Randy Holmes-Farley has great articles on the subject of water chemistry and has his own sub forum here

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

 

[ScottR]

Yea, I don't like them. Super hard to read also. I'm going to drop the extra 25$ for the red sea. I heard that's good. Never heard of this filter. So what all will it take out? I currently use I think it's called Seachem safe and the other stuff with aloe in it for my tap water. Do you recommend to get a Rodi and just get my dkh down to 8 and nitrates to 0? Or keep using my tap and keep nitrates and kh super high. I wish someone could help me with all this stuff. Everything I read seems to be different. My stuff goes OK for some time and then something like this happens. Or like how one of my powerheads just falls into the sand and covers everything up damaging corals.

The general consensus is RODI water is the best. It gives you basically pure water. You add a good salt to it and it now contains all the minerals that you need for a reef tank. As far as water filters go, you can buy a water filter to purify your tap for better drinking water. This will help to filter out chlorine, heavy metals, bacteria, etc. but it won’t demineralize your water unless it promises to. Just need to read the instructions.

Sounds like you’re still new to reefing. I recommend reading a bit more. Watching some videos (BRS TV on YouTube is great). And continue to keep asking questions. Generally people on this forum are helpful, won’t criticize you for making mistakes and can give you lots of info to help you along.

 

[NS Mike D]

https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/2/chemistry

article on the different methods to maintain ALk and Ca

 

[NS Mike D]

So according to that reading a good baseline would be 11.5. Which I would just go for 12 in that case. I have a mixed reef tank. Would you agree with that? That's what I'm currently at now. If I did a water change with the Rodi water that would take my kh down lower since the Rodi is 8dkh. Sorry I'm a little confused with what you're saying. I wouldn't want to dose it to my tanks 12dkh?

water change with salt water

RODI has no dkh. That is determined by the salt mix. If you don't use 0 TDS water when making your salt, then your saltwater will be different from what the mix recipe will make. If you are using water with carbonates in it when making saltwater, then you'll end up with higher dkh than intended. One caveat , Alk and Ca can precipitate out of the water of the balance (with Mg) gets out out whack.

I have a tough time maintaining 11.5, My tank likes to settle in at 9 for some reason. But that's ok. My corals do fine and stability, within reason, is more important than specific numbers.

I would recommend starting with RODI water to make your saltwater and to top off the evaporation and let weekly water changes bring you DKH settle in to 11.5. Red Seas salt mic in the video is mixed to 11.5.

 

[NS Mike D]

PS distilled water is a good substitute for RODI. I've used it in a pinch and here is a thread from R2R with the a member confirming it has zero TDS

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/r...or-ro-di-water-when-topping-off-your-t.87654/

 

[NS Mike D]

If you do decide to get a RODI system, get a water report for your tap water. This will be very helpful in deciding what unit to get. I suspect you have hard water and thus will require extra filters in addition to the standard 4 (the additional upfront filters extend the life of the more expensive filters that do the polishing). I also suggest you get a unit with a TDS meter to let you know when it's time to change the filters. I recommend the BRS units because they are affordable ($100 and up) , can use standard filters and are easy to change. I'm going to go that route soon since its time for me to replace the RO unit if due for replacement and that is not a DIY on my unit, so instead of sending it in for service, I prefer to get a BRS RODI.

 

[lilfish717]

water change with salt water

RODI has no dkh. That is determined by the salt mix. If you don't use 0 TDS water when making your salt, then your saltwater will be different from what the mix recipe will make. If you are using water with carbonates in it when making saltwater, then you'll end up with higher dkh than intended. One caveat , Alk and Ca can precipitate out of the water of the balance (with Mg) gets out out whack.

I have a tough time maintaining 11.5, My tank likes to settle in at 9 for some reason. But that's ok. My corals do fine and stability, within reason, is more important than specific numbers.

I would recommend starting with RODI water to make your saltwater and to top off the evaporation and let weekly water changes bring you DKH settle in to 11.5. Red Seas salt mic in the video is mixed to 11.5.

Do you have mixed reef?