Lasses Dream Build

[Lasse]

6-12-25

17-01-02

17-01-09

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17-01-15

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White spot coral ?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Alfrareef]

Hi Lasse,
Why don't you use a calcium reactor?
TIA

 

[Lasse]

Hi Alfareef

A good question.

One of my goal with this construction has been to investigate if the DSB itself can act as a slow calcium reactor. My ideas is that the bacterial activity in the DSB should produce a lot of CO2 an therefor slowly dissolve the bed. It will take some time and during that lag period I mainly use Balling.

Calcium reactors has the disadvantage that pH may go down a bit under 8

I think the pH between 8.1 - 8.2 is optimal. Then I construct my DSB – I made a possibility to ad CO2 below the DSB if the CO2 production in the bed should not be high enough.

I´m sorry to say that my construction with the solenoid valves was no success. They reduced the air flow to the skimmer too much. Back to the drawing board. New order on E-Bay. For the moment I´m back to only run my skimmer when pH is over 8.20 and use a CO2 scrubber for the air inlet.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[revhtree]

Looks good Lasse!

 

[Lasse]

Thanks

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Aleks]

Hello. But a large number of bacteria also lead to a decrease in pH of the water. What will cause the fall of carbonate ..... it's not a very good ....... correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Lasse]

Hi Aleks

Large anaerobic bacteria colonies affect the pH along two pathways – release of carbon dioxide (CO2) and release of hydrogen ions (H+). Both processes lower the pH. I will have the bacteria in my DSB. My DSB consist of coral gravel (limestone) With start around 7.8 (in the gravel – not in the open water) –the lime will dissolve itself into two parts - Ca and CO3. The pH will adjust itself and the excess CO2 produced by the bacteria will be free to be used of the macro algae, zooxanthellae or aired out. I have a slow flow through the DSB and it will work like a slow calcium reactor – and I hope that it sooner or later will be enough lowering of the pH by natural processes – so I do not need to put in CO2 like in a normal calcium reactors. The lowering of the pH – that’s the effect I want in the DSB!

It is no coincidence that macro algae are above the DSB. They can use the excess carbon dioxide, released nutrients and minerals from the DSB

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Aleks]

Hi Aleks

Large anaerobic bacteria colonies affect the pH along two pathways – release of carbon dioxide (CO2) and release of hydrogen ions (H+). Both processes lower the pH. I will have the bacteria in my DSB. My DSB consist of coral gravel (limestone) With start around 7.8 (in the gravel – not in the open water) –the lime will dissolve itself into two parts - Ca and CO3. The pH will adjust itself and the excess CO2 produced by the bacteria will be free to be used of the macro algae, zooxanthellae or aired out. I have a slow flow through the DSB and it will work like a slow calcium reactor – and I hope that it sooner or later will be enough lowering of the pH by natural processes – so I do not need to put in CO2 like in a normal calcium reactors. The lowering of the pH – that’s the effect I want in the DSB!

It is no coincidence that macro algae are above the DSB. They can use the excess carbon dioxide, released nutrients and minerals from the DSB

Sincerely Lasse

Thanks for the detailed answer. As I understand it the system does not bude Calcium Reactor, ..... but I think that we should still add carbonates, calcium and the other at least at first or regular water changes will allow it to do?
I'm sorry if the stupid ....

 

[Lasse]

This is a test - I have no idea if it works or not For the moment I´m adding HCO3 and Ca on a regular basis otherwise the levels will drop.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Aleks]

This is a test - I have no idea if it works or not For the moment I´m adding HCO3 and Ca on a regular basis otherwise the levels will drop.

Sincerely Lasse

Thank you. It is very interesting. I'll watch the process, please let us know about it.

 

[Lasse]

Got some stuff today. I have a media reactor for my phosphate remover. I use Alu remover from Triton – very effective but the media should not tumble – the water should go slowly through the media. Original – there is a 230 V pump and I try to take away all of these (this was the last) of safety reasons.

I found a small 24 VDC – adjustable and with max 650 l/h - return pump

The pictures show how I did

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Sincerely Lasse

 

[Rick.45cal]

Instead of trying to use solenoids to control which air your skimmer breathes, couldn't you take a (for example 4" diameter) pipe, fill it full of bioballs, add a small pump in the sump so when your controller kicks the skimmer off for the pH being too high, it can flick on a small pump to trickle water over the bio balls disolving CO2 from the sump cabinet. (Like a rudimentary CO2 reactor crossed with a trickle filter) You could even add a small airpump in the sump to keep the CO2 rich air moving through the column. Once it became colonized with aerobic bacteria it might help feed the system nitrates for you too.

 

[Lasse]

Its a good idea - I have been thinking of that too. But first I will go all the way with respect to alternating intake and try another idea.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

FTS

Soon a father

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Sincerely Lasse

 

[jsker]

filling in nicely

 

[Lasse]

Still anyone with a reef aquarium that dubt that the CO2 level in the air impact the pH level in sea water? Look at these two graphs. During week - two grownups in the flat – around 10 o´clock Saturday morning – two grand children arrived. My skimmer runs if pH is below 8.15 and the airintake is through a CO2 scrubber. During normal days – the CO2 scrubber maintain a pH around 8.15 – but then the CO2 level rises – it does not manage to hold the pH at that level.

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The grandchildren leave Sunday evening and now everything is normal again.

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Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

The calcification process need a stable and high pH in order to lower the energy input for the calcifying organism. In pH lower than app. 7.8 – the physical laws works against the calcification.

High pH – lower content of CO2 -> lower pH – more CO2 is a chemical and physical law

The energy normally takes from the input of food but many organisms like some corals use algae in order to produce energy that will help in the calcification process. These algae (in corals) is named zooxanthella. To produce high energy levels – the zooxanthella need light, organic nutrients and carbon dioxide. Light and inorganic nutrients is easy to manage – The CO2 question is another task. Corals Zooxanthella I able to take CO2 from the hosts metabolism but it does not look likes its enough of carbon dioxide produced from the host to maintain a high photosynthesis (high energy production). Many corals is also able to convert bicarbonates/carbonate to carbon dioxide – but this cost extra energy. Its clear that free carbon dioxide in the water will be the most energy effective carbon source for the zooxanthella. But high amount of dissolved carbon dioxide will lower the pH – counteracting the calcification process – and low amount of carbon dioxide (higher pH) will lower the photosynthesis and the energy production. The photosynthesis itself will also tend to lower the free carbon dioxide concentration (and therefor rise the pH)

Its also clear that it must be a “sweet pH point” there these two counteracting processes allow an optimal growth (calcification and photosynthesis). Its also clear – that if it will be found – its good to maintain that point (read pH) during the whole photosynthesis and therefore add CO2 in one or another way for have a stable pH.


My idea (in the first hand) is that this “Sweet pH-point” is around 8.1 to 8.2 and that I can maintain this (during night time with no or low CO2 consumption) with help of a CO2 scrubber at the air intake to the skimmer. I have done this for a couple of weeks – but the skimmer has been off if the pH value is over 8.15. My idea is to switch between air from the CO2 scrubber (low in CO2) and air from my cabinet (higher CO2 content) to the skimmers air intake. My goal is to see if the higher content of CO2 from the air in the cabinet will be enough to maintain a pH around 8.15 during the photosynthesis period and/or hinder the pH to rise.

With two adults in the flat (CO2 vary between 400 ppm – to 1000 ppm) – I think that it will not be enough – but we will see

Below is my construction with a motorized 3 way ball valve – its connected to my profilux and will allow cabinet air to the skimmer if pH is over 8.15 (at the moment) and swich to air from the CO2 scrubber if pH is below 8.15. I chose this construction in order not to lower the amount of air to the skimmer intake.

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Sincerely Lasse

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Sincerely Lasse

 

[jsker]

This just amazes me. I would not began to figure out were to find the parts, with out a list. Also just knowing what to use or look for. I think you should name the over all system "The Frankenstein Reef Project"

 

[Lowell Lemon]

Always fun to drop by here and get a science and technology lesson. Thanks again for this thread Lasse.

 

[LN21]

Informative as always Lasse.