LED’s- No UV? Do corals need UV for longterm health?

[Reefahholic]

I lived on the "reef" for three years. You could not snorkel or dive year round in fact you would be luck if you could do it 6 months out of the year. The silt and all of the crap in the water would drop visibility to near zero. This would also impact light penetration.

One thing that you can do with Radions is to set up cloud cover. This can give you a more natural lighting and also drop your average PAR.

My 2 cents.

100% agree. The turbidity changes a lot unlike our reefs are always crystal clear with strong light, heavy filtration, no clouds, no rainy days, no volcanic ash, etc.

When you see monti’s plating out…and not up, you can tell the light is lower. There’s many other indicators as you already know.

Then I see videos like this one below and I’m not sure what to think. One thing that seems to be true is corals grow longer with lower light. The growth in higher light is always short bushy shrub like growth, but with intense coloration.

 

[Reefahholic]

It should be pretty obvious that this guy is wrong.

He might be...I just don’t know enough about lighting to say if he is or isn’t. It wasn’t his data from what I heard on the video. For me it’s not a matter of who’s right or wrong, but just listening to all view points and discussing everything to see if somebody may have a valid point that maybe hasn’t been considered before. Maybe the equipment was not calibrated properly and he truly thought that LED’s were measuring zero UV. I’m sure some do. I need to get a UV card and check out my Radions with UV at 100% and see if I get a positive response on the card. Unless somebody wants to let me barrow a 5K meter.

 

[hart24601]

He might be...I just don’t know enough about lighting to say if he is or isn’t. It wasn’t his data from what I heard on the video. For me it’s not a matter of who’s right or wrong, but just listening to all view points and discussing everything to see if somebody may have a valid point that maybe hasn’t been considered before. Maybe the equipment was not calibrated properly and he truly thought that LED’s were measuring zero UV. I’m sure some do. I need to get a UV card and check out my Radions with UV at 100% and see if I get a positive response on the card. Unless somebody wants to let me barrow a 5K meter.

You can look up @Dana Riddle lighting tests to see as well. He has examined a lot of lights. Keep in mind a 400nm led will have a range with 400 being the most but half the spectrum drift is below 400. Kessil has 380nm I think and the old orphek had 380 but they changed to 400s in the new icon.

 

[Reefahholic]

You can look up @Dana Riddle lighting tests to see as well. He has examined a lot of lights. Keep in mind a 400nm led will have a range with 400 being the most but half the spectrum drift is below 400. Kessil has 380nm I think and the old orphek had 380 but they changed to 400s in the new icon.

Ok, I’ll look that up. The only light I’ve be impressed with at max intensity and higher PAR is Metal Halides. I think it’s because the quality of light out of those is just very close to the sun.

 

[hart24601]

Ok, I’ll look that up. The only light I’ve be impressed with at max intensity and higher PAR is Metal Halides. I think it’s because the quality of light out of those is just very close to the sun.

I have had the opposite experience. You saw my tort and pc rainbow at 800+ par and I ran nearly that high with hydras too on my old 120. Funny how experiences can vary so.

 

[HuduVudu]

100% agree. The turbidity changes a lot unlike our reefs are always crystal clear with strong light, heavy filtration, no clouds, no rainy days, no volcanic ash, etc.

When you see monti’s plating out…and not up, you can tell the light is lower. There’s many other indicators as you already know.

Then I see videos like this one below and I’m not sure what to think. One thing that seems to be true is corals grow longer with lower light. The growth in higher light is always short bushy shrub like growth, but with intense coloration.

Here is right before a hurricane rolled in (it got much worse but was to dark to get pictures).

It is in this area I would find little acros. They were really brightly colored. I think though that the wave action would end them because you never saw them large.

There was another area that I would go near here but further out and deeper that had coral more akin to what we would expect.

 

[Yodeling]

He might be...I just don’t know enough about lighting to say if he is or isn’t. It wasn’t his data from what I heard on the video. For me it’s not a matter of who’s right or wrong, but just listening to all view points and discussing everything to see if somebody may have a valid point that maybe hasn’t been considered before. Maybe the equipment was not calibrated properly and he truly thought that LED’s were measuring zero UV. I’m sure some do. I need to get a UV card and check out my Radions with UV at 100% and see if I get a positive response on the card. Unless somebody wants to let me barrow a 5K meter.

He is implying that your acros will die (or do very poorly) if they don’t receive UV light. So….

 

[hart24601]

He is implying that your acros will die (or do very poorly) if they don’t receive UV light. So….

That is funny. One of the nicest acro systems in the world imo is here on r2r and used just medium quality level leds, reefbreeders. The lowest they have is 420 so his corals probably don’t see any UVA at all but look literally world class.

therman's 12 year old SPS system...top down shot, starting to enjoy this tank again

Wow!!! That was a huge clam indeed!! Sorry to hear about the loss ... Thanks for sharing

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Reefahholic]

I have had the opposite experience. You saw my tort and pc rainbow at 800+ par and I ran nearly that high with hydras too on my old 120. Funny how experiences can vary so.

It really is. I think it just depends on so many factors. I know my tanks typically run very clean even when dosing NO3 and feeding heavily. So maybe that is why I didn’t experience the growth I expected when I had the ATI Powermodule maxed out. I got better growth from the Sunpower fixture.

 

[Reefahholic]

That is funny. One of the nicest acro systems in the world imo is here on r2r and used just medium quality level leds, reefbreeders. The lowest they have is 420 so his corals probably don’t see any UVA at all but look literally world class.

therman's 12 year old SPS system...top down shot, starting to enjoy this tank again

Wow!!! That was a huge clam indeed!! Sorry to hear about the loss ... Thanks for sharing

www.reef2reef.com

Yeah, Therman runs basically all Reefbreeders and probably has more coral than most LFS. Definitely has some high end pieces. He runs higher PAR, but has higher nutrients. Just like Sanjay.

 

[Spare time]

Just wondering how important UV is for longterm coral health, specifically Acropora.

Somebody measured some LED fixtures and the conclusion was they lack UV.

Personally I’ve never seen a tank with LED’s struggle that much. I’ve been watching closely over the last several years and from what I can tell they seem to be growing coral quite well. Maybe the spectrum isn’t perfect on some fixtures, but most seem to be doing fairly well. The quality of light may not be equal to Metal Halides, but LED’s have arrived from what I’ve seen. There are thousands of tanks with “only” LED’s growing coral quite well. I’ve seen several tanks with “only” Radion G4’s grow some massive colonies.

Has anybody here experienced any issues after a few years of good growth where the corals stated to decline or have some STN/RTN issues for no reason?

If LED’s do lack UV or the UV is very low…could this create a problem longterm? I hope not, because most of us have switched over to LED’s.

Also, has anybody here actually measured UV from their LED’s with quality equipment, and if so what where the findings? Does it measure higher above the water and quickly dissipate as you go beneath the surface and read 0?

I don't think any (or most) of the coral photopigments go below 380nm so no.

 

[Reefahholic]

Here’s a prime example of what I consider a lot of light. Initially you think wow, that is an amazing tank and it is, but when you start to look at the corals and then see how much light she has over the tank you quickly understand the reason why all her corals or so compacted or compressed if you will. I’m more of a fan of Viking’s Reef type look. You can see his monti’s are plating out and down instead of up. It’s pretty obvious that the bottom is getting low light.


Too much light on her green slimer IMO

 

[Reefahholic]

Then you have places like WWC that are probably some of the most successful in the business running lower light.

 

[Reefahholic]

Check out Rico’s old tank…I know for a fact he kept that tank 100 on the sandbed. I talked to him about it a few times. Plus it was a MarineLand 300 DD I believe with a 27.25” depth. He had some cheap Ocean Revive’s up there with maybe 4 T5’s. That was it. PAR was low I can promise you that. Look at the corals on the bottom grow more vertical and branch.

 

[hart24601]

Yeah, Therman runs basically all Reefbreeders and probably has more coral than most LFS. Definitely has some high end pieces. He runs higher PAR, but has higher nutrients. Just like Sanjay.

I don’t remember off the top of my head what he runs nutrients at but my comment with his system is more about the OP and UV. If you look at the quality and age of those corals and think, “I want better” then consider adding UV, but his system is an amazing example of what relatively inexpensive definitely not top end lights, leds at that, can produce. To me it is a demonstration of how too many people obsess over their lighting when it’s the chemistry they should focus on.

 

[Reefahholic]

He is implying that your acros will die (or do very poorly) if they don’t receive UV light. So….

That’s what it sounded like.

 

[Reefahholic]

I don’t remember off the top of my head what he runs nutrients at but my comment with his system is more about the OP and UV. If you look at the quality and age of those corals and think, “I want better” then consider adding UV, but his system is an amazing example of what relatively inexpensive definitely not top end lights, leds at that, can produce. To me it is a demonstration of how too many people obsess over their lighting when it’s the chemistry they should focus on.

Do the ReefBreeders have a lot of UV?

 

[Reefahholic]

WWC has to have figured out the same thing that I’ve observed when their average PAR from 12pm to 7pm is only 201.

When everybody else says Acropora need 300-800 PAR! Why in the world would their average PAR be 201???

 

[Reefahholic]

 

[Reefahholic]

This stag was in high light and grew slow for a stag…when I turned down the light it started to take off. I think it just depends on the coral and everything in the tank as a whole.

daylight pic

Same thing with these two. The Anacropora came from a friend who had it under intense light. I put it in about 250 and you can see the difference in growth pattern. The Red Planet came from a high light LED tank and I put it in about 275ish and it started to take off almost instantly.