Let's meet Elvis

[lion king]

No really I don't name my preds, I usually just call trhem nicknames from their species, like blackie(blackfoot lion), fu-bee(fu manchu), clowny(clown trigger); but Elvis would be a really cool name for him.

So I started this new tank a while ago https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/lion-kings-nps-predators-reef.503294/ , and had a bit of a challenge choosing a predator. I lose one like this in qt due to internal parasites several weeks ago. It was an expensive pill to swallow. This guy came into the lfs I get my live food from a few weeks ago, I had been keeping a close eye on him. I feel pretty good about him, he's cruising and eating, and seems to be happy.

 

[ZipAdeeZoa]

Looking good! Just don't add any Peanut butter, banana bacon Gorgonians...;Hilarious

 

[Musovski]

woah. im actually amazed by this thing

 

[lion king]

Fascinating

 

[Han]

Hi lion king, I’m sorry to be bothering you but as far as I know you’re the only active member with experience with rhinopias. I got home from a 2 week vacation tuesday night and my rhino hasn’t been acting right, very lethargic and wouldn’t eat. At one point last night I thought he died so I tried gently poking him with the handle of my glass scraper, no response. Eventually he hopped around a little. About 30 minutes ago I came to check on him and he was on his side laboring to breathe. He’s flitted around a few times and always floats back down to the bottom where he falls on his side again. Have you seen this behavior in any scorps you’ve lost? I just tested the water and everything is normal.
Again sorry to bother you but please let me know if you have any thoughts.

 

[lion king]

Hi lion king, I’m sorry to be bothering you but as far as I know you’re the only active member with experience with rhinopias. I got home from a 2 week vacation tuesday night and my rhino hasn’t been acting right, very lethargic and wouldn’t eat. At one point last night I thought he died so I tried gently poking him with the handle of my glass scraper, no response. Eventually he hopped around a little. About 30 minutes ago I came to check on him and he was on his side laboring to breathe. He’s flitted around a few times and always floats back down to the bottom where he falls on his side again. Have you seen this behavior in any scorps you’ve lost? I just tested the water and everything is normal.
Again sorry to bother you but please let me know if you have any thoughts.

Yes, I have seen it and these are my thoughts on the 3 possible contributors. Let's hope you just may have overfed him, because of their sedentary lifestyle, their metabolism is pretty slow, and food can take a while to digest. My rhino is actually quite active, but feeding is still a fine tuning experiment. What happens is the food may actually start to rots in his gut, form gases that make him a bit unbalanced. They can go a while without eating, so not feeding for a few days to a week to see if he starts to come around, would not hurt. Dosing the tank with magnesium up to 1400 wouldn't hurt either, mg may aid in digestion.

By the way: what are you feeding him, how much, and how often. If you have been feeding krill or silversides in the form of rainbow smelt without supplementation of vit B1, it could be a vit B1 deficiency. If you are feeding krill, stop; if you are feeding silversides, get the Hikari brand and soak with a vit supplement with added vit B1; and feed something live, preferably mollies. Have you seen any signs of internal parasites, look around the tank for what appears to be white string.

The 3rd is terminal, my personal theory, but I have seen it countless times with a number of lions and scorps. Organ failure due to some sort of chemical exposure, these guys are likely some of the most delicate fish when it comes to any sort of chemical exposure, and that mean any meds as well. I have never been able to successfully treat any scorp with any medication, and the ones I know from others that have used meds from prazi pro, general cure, cp, have not lived long afterwards. Feeding fish from a copper system may even eventually take it's toll, that's how sensitive these guys are to any med or chemical.

 

[Han]

Yes, I have seen it and these are my thoughts on the 3 possible contributors. Let's hope you just may have overfed him, because of their sedentary lifestyle, their metabolism is pretty slow, and food can take a while to digest. My rhino is actually quite active, but feeding is still a fine tuning experiment. What happens is the food may actually start to rots in his gut, form gases that make him a bit unbalanced. They can go a while without eating, so not feeding for a few days to a week to see if he starts to come around, would not hurt. Dosing the tank with magnesium up to 1400 wouldn't hurt either, mg may aid in digestion.

By the way: what are you feeding him, how much, and how often. If you have been feeding krill or silversides in the form of rainbow smelt without supplementation of vit B1, it could be a vit B1 deficiency. If you are feeding krill, stop; if you are feeding silversides, get the Hikari brand and soak with a vit supplement with added vit B1; and feed something live, preferably mollies. Have you seen any signs of internal parasites, look around the tank for what appears to be white string.

The 3rd is terminal, my personal theory, but I have seen it countless times with a number of lions and scorps. Organ failure due to some sort of chemical exposure, these guys are likely some of the most delicate fish when it comes to any sort of chemical exposure, and that mean any meds as well. I have never been able to successfully treat any scorp with any medication, and the ones I know from others that have used meds from prazi pro, general cure, cp, have not lived long afterwards. Feeding fish from a copper system may even eventually take it's toll, that's how sensitive these guys are to any med or chemical.

i was away for the last 2 weeks and prepackaged food for my maintenance guy, so I don’t think overfeeding is the issue. I feed him mostly iqf brand silversides and small clam meat chunks with krill occasionally. All food gets soaked in either selcon or vita-chem. He gets fed twice a week, typically 1 silverside and a small clam chunk per feeding.

this fish was in my lfs‘s invert system for about 6 months so unless he was exposed to copper or meds prior to that I don’t think that’s the issue either. I have not treated him with anything.

He has righted himself in the past hour or so and is now sitting still breathing more normally. I know its very unlikely but when my betta got stung by my lion he was acting the same as the rhino has been.

 

[lion king]

i was away for the last 2 weeks and prepackaged food for my maintenance guy, so I don’t think overfeeding is the issue. I feed him mostly iqf brand silversides and small clam meat chunks with krill occasionally. All food gets soaked in either selcon or vita-chem. He gets fed twice a week, typically 1 silverside and a small clam chunk per feeding.

this fish was in my lfs‘s invert system for about 6 months so unless he was exposed to copper or meds prior to that I don’t think that’s the issue either. I have not treated him with anything.

He has righted himself in the past hour or so and is now sitting still breathing ore normally. I know its very unlikely but when my betta got stung by my lion he was acting the same as the rhino has been.

I really don't think the lion stung him, if so I am not sure they would even react to it. So are you feeding any live at all. I just don't know why but they guys just don;t seem to do well long term on a dead only diet. There may be a need for the nutrients found in the guts of live fish, or the stimulus they get from the hunt. Clams and krill both contain thiaminese which binds vit B1, does the silversides you feed list the species used. You will never know what he was exposed to prior to when you got him, do you know what they were feeding him. Are you running carbon or any other media, could there possibly be a source of contamination, as I said earlier, these guys are sensitive to everything.

 

[Han]

I really don't think the lion stung him, if so I am not sure they would even react to it. So are you feeding any live at all. I just don't know why but they guys just don;t seem to do well long term on a dead only diet. There may be a need for the nutrients found in the guts of live fish, or the stimulus they get from the hunt. Clams and krill both contain thiaminese which binds vit B1, does the silversides you feed list the species used. You will never know what he was exposed to prior to when you got him, do you know what they were feeding him. Are you running carbon or any other media, could there possibly be a source of contamination, as I said earlier, these guys are sensitive to everything.

I feed him live ghost shrimp occasionally which I gut load with pellets. The lfs fed him exclusively silversides, the same brand I use. I’m not sure what the species is. I don’t run any chemical filtration in his tank and only use rodi water for changes.
This was him at 4 pm today:

This is him now:

 

[lion king]

I feed him live ghost shrimp occasionally which I gut load with pellets. The lfs fed him exclusively silversides, the same brand I use. I’m not sure what the species is. I don’t run any chemical filtration in his tank and only use rodi water for changes.
This was him at 4 pm today:

This is him now:

If it were me, i would feed him 1 live molly a week and find out what species of fish are used for the silversides you are feeding him, or switch silversides brand to Hikari. This type of sign is never a fluke, something will need to be figured out and changed, or it likely doesn;t end well.

 

[Han]

If it were me, i would feed him 1 live molly a week and find out what species of fish are used for the silversides you are feeding him, or switch silversides brand to Hikari. This type of sign is never a fluke, something will need to be figured out and changed, or it likely doesn;t end well.

I’ll start doing that, I’m in the process of setting up a 10g for breeding feeders as well. I’m going to try breeding ghost shrimp first, if that doesn’t work out I’ll try mollies or guppies.

 

[Han]

He’s still alive today, on his side again laboring. Do you know if these fish have lifespans similar to a lionfish, or if they’re short lived? I’ve been doing some reading and some suggest that rhinos only live a few years. Not sure I believe that but perhaps age could be a factor, I’m at a loss honestly.

 

[lion king]

He’s still alive today, on his side again laboring. Do you know if these fish have lifespans similar to a lionfish, or if they’re short lived? I’ve been doing some reading and some suggest that rhinos only live a few years. Not sure I believe that but perhaps age could be a factor, I’m at a loss honestly.

Their lifespan in the wild is the same of most lions, 10-15 years, so in theory we should be able to keep them alive that long in captivity. The problem is people cant, for one reason or another, I've tracked and shared several reasons why that doesn't happen. By all my research people barely keep dwarf or medium bodied lions much more than a year, year and a half. Most rhinos perish pretty quickly, usually within several months at most. While I've had my lions several years and have kept a fuzzy more than 10. My rhino for 14 months so far and I have high hopes he'll live a long time. 1st you need to get a specimen that hasnt been exposed to any chemical poisoning(that includes meds), fed dying and diseased fish along the way, saltwater fish that spread disease or poisoned by treatment, and fed a live diet. If they haven't been poisoned one way or another or diseased in any way, the biggest mistake people make, it that they are just dead set on feeeding a dead diet

 

[Han]

I’m coming up on one year with my radiata, and I’ve fed the rhino the same as him. Live ghost shrimp twice a month, the rest dead food. I guess I’ll give up on keeping scorps and just let my lion live by himself, I hate killing fish.

 

[lion king]

My rhino never took to ghost shrimp, I also think live mollies is a good addition. My fu doesnt eat alot of ghosties either, and I give her mollies regularly. Many of my lions are full grown 6-7", so they all get mollies as well. The larger they get, ghosties just might not be enough.

 

[Han]

Looks like it’s too late for my guy. When my lion gets bigger I’ll start feeding him mollies in addition to ghosties

 

[lion king]

Looks like it’s too late for my guy. When my lion gets bigger I’ll start feeding him mollies in addition to ghosties

Sorry to hear that, obviously if it were due to some type of poisoning it was out of hands. If it wasnt poison or parasites it was likely some sort of nutriotional defiency. I still see the advice about training lions/scorps/anglers to dead food although no one can provide any evidence to them living long at all after they start eating a dead only diet. Keeping small lions is notvany easier than keeping a scorp, but getting a poison/parasite free one may be next to impossible these days. Unless I find an independent diver who hand captures and does not medicate, Ill never buy another fish.

 

[Han]

I saw kp aquatics offers plumieris and carribbaeus, they may be a good source.

 

[lion king]

I saw kp aquatics offers plumieris and carribbaeus, they may be a good source.

Both of those are neat scorps, pretty hardy and will easily eat dead food. It you plan their diet well with an occasional live and thiaminese free dead food, they are a nice scorp. They walk around and have a nitrous oxide boost of speed when wanted, very comical.

 

[Han]

Easier than rhinos?