Lionfish Care and Diet

Fish man

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I recently acquired a Dwarf Zebra Lionfish. I'm embarrassed to say this is my third one. The first went blind and eventually quit eating after about a year. The second just stopped eating and died, also at about one year. Both I believe due to thiaminase poisioning. Both were fed a totally dead diet. The first one I didn’t know any better and was feeding a lot of Krill and Silversides. After losing the first one I did more research on diet and thought I had it figured out. Obviously not. I consulted Wet Web Media and they recommended adding vitamin B1 to the water once a week. I was adding 300mg to my 90g display, a total guess. I fed a more varied diet including Salmon and Cod but still dead only. This was all before I discovered R2R. After reading everything I could find here, particularly from lionfish guru Lion King, I’ve deduced that a good hybrid diet of live and quality dead, low thiaminase offerings is apparently the key. Am I correct? My current specimen is less than 2 inches right now. It’s eating ghosties that I’m gut loading with pellets and flake. It’s too small for mollies so I’ve tried guppies but so far it’s shown no interest. I consider myself relatively experienced. I’ve been maintaining a mixed reef for about 7 years and my fish mortality rate is pretty low. I keep what is considered more difficult specimens like a Copperband I’ve had for over 2 years now. I feel my rock work is good for lionfish habitat with plenty of large dark overhangs and perches as well as open swimming space. I’ve set up a 5g to accommodate live feeders. Lions are my favorite fish and my tank show piece. I don’t want to blow it again because first I feel guilty and second, dwarfs seem to be getting harder to come by. What I’d like to see here is feedback from long term success stories with lionfish, particularly dwarfs. Specifics on what to feed, how often, and any tips on maintaining a feeder population. How do I get past this first stage and on to a long term successful regimen of good diet and care?
 
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lion king

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If you have read my post, I don't need to add anything, other than I would also like input from others that have successfully kept the dwarf lions long term.

The live gut flora in fish may also be a key. I have seen lions not getting a live diet fall victim to bacterial infections after an injury, while ones on a live diet tend to fight off injuries easily. Live ghosties are good but I would continue to try guppies or appropriate sized mollies if you can find them. They may be timid at 1st but it's in their nature. Mollies are better because they can also easily live in sw, so it gives them the chance to eat at their leisure. Guppies are also a brackish fish and some may live a while in full salt.

Supplementing with dead food is good if it's good for you. The proper dead foods are sometimes expensive and to be the best need to be fresh, so maybe also a pita. Getting them to take dead foods is a plus because sometimes you need a back up in case you loose access to live foods. Hikari silversides are good to have in the freezer as well as the salmon you mentioned.

It is also easy to breed mollies for youngsters, I find it unreasonable when you have to grow them up for larger lions. i guess I did have something to add.

Loosing the lions after several months to a year or so can also be to organ damage suffered from exposure to chemicals, And yes I include medications as chemicals and poisonings. You'll likely have seen some of threads on meds and even necropsies showing liver damage. So you must know your source is not running copper in their systems or treating with copper or antibiotics, not to speak of cyanide which is making a comeback. You'll see the cyanide poisoning much quicker though.
 
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Thanks LK. As I continue to find more threads I realize this is pretty redundant. I'll continue offering guppies and will try to get some mollies breeding. Sounds like ghost shrimp are a main stay in the diet. I've read that they aren't very nutritious. Do you think that's true? Anything you recommend I feed them to get them up in that regard?
 

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Three lions with eating , not eating and cloudy eyes points to water.
Are you using RODI or tap water from faucet>?
What test kits are you using and what is current ammonia and nitrate level ?

temp 77-79
salinity 1.024-1.025
ph 8.1 - 8.3
ammonia 0.02
nitrate 0.03
 

lion king

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Thanks LK. As I continue to find more threads I realize this is pretty redundant. I'll continue offering guppies and will try to get some mollies breeding. Sounds like ghost shrimp are a main stay in the diet. I've read that they aren't very nutritious. Do you think that's true? Anything you recommend I feed them to get them up in that regard?

You are what you eat. I feed my ghosties Omega One micro pellets, you can see them in their guts when you offer them, so the lions are also getting the pellets. The shells of the ghosties are concentrated minerals including ca and mg as well as concentrated protein and amino acids. Although their digestive system is simple, there is still some flora that is also beneficial. So I would say they are very nutritious.
 
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Three lions with eating , not eating and cloudy eyes points to water.
Are you using RODI or tap water from faucet>?
What test kits are you using and what is current ammonia and nitrate level ?

temp 77-79
salinity 1.024-1.025
ph 8.1 - 8.3
ammonia 0.02
nitrate 0.03
Never had cloudy eye problems. I use RODI. I don't think it's water. This is a mixed reef that I've been keeping for about 7 years so I have a pretty good handle on chems. I keep my water good all the time. Corals are doing great. 0 amonia, nitrates under 5. I tend to think it's been diet related.
 
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Update. My dwarf zebra has more then doubled in size since 1st introduced. He is now taking guppies but they are hard to come by at the lfs. Gobbles down ghosties which have been the primary diet. He recently started taking Hikari Silversides but won't even consider fresh salmon or Atlantic Cod that I've offered. (Bad attitude). I think he even flipped me off once when I offered some salmon. I need to get more variation but as I said guppies are hard to get. They always have rosy red minnows but I know they are high in Thiaminase. I've set up a 5g feeder tank but have a high mortality rate with ghosties. I need to get better with their longevity cause it's a pita going to the lfs all the time. Get this. One of the lfs' near me said avoid live feeding cause that triggers their hunting instinct and they are impossible to convert. The main goal is to get them on pellets. Thanks for the input! :)
 

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You know my stance on this, ask your lfs to introduce you to one of their customers that are keeping dwarf lions on a dead only diet for more than a couple of years. I'm being generous with the couple of years, it will be much less. It can be done, but it is very difficult to provide the necessary nutrients and limit thiaminese.

Try stuffed silversides, stuff some pellets in a chunk of silverside. Be aware pellets expand in the gut, so don't overfeed. If you can find appropriate sized mollies, that is a very good, completely nutritionally balanced food. Please don't feed rosies, not only because of the thiaminese, but I've also seen a number of lions die to bloat after eating rosies. Something happens where the lion can't digest it, it binds somehow, and causes bloat, which kills them.

How are you introducing the salmon, the same way as you introduce the silversides? Do you use a feeding stick, or just drop it in? Try blending it into your other foods that he is taking, make sure it's not too large a piece, a sliver seems to be more enticing than a chunk. Try to move it through the water to elicit a natural feeding response, with a feeding stick or by dropping it in his view in current.

While some lions have been known to eat pellets, after a while waiting for them to dropped into the water column. This activity is almost, if not always, short lived.
 

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Mine are doing great but eat nothing but live food. Feeder guppies and shrimp can be bought on ebay and other places in large numbers.
 
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You know my stance on this, ask your lfs to introduce you to one of their customers that are keeping dwarf lions on a dead only diet for more than a couple of years. I'm being generous with the couple of years, it will be much less. It can be done, but it is very difficult to provide the necessary nutrients and limit thiaminese.

Try stuffed silversides, stuff some pellets in a chunk of silverside. Be aware pellets expand in the gut, so don't overfeed. If you can find appropriate sized mollies, that is a very good, completely nutritionally balanced food. Please don't feed rosies, not only because of the thiaminese, but I've also seen a number of lions die to bloat after eating rosies. Something happens where the lion can't digest it, it binds somehow, and causes bloat, which kills them.

How are you introducing the salmon, the same way as you introduce the silversides? Do you use a feeding stick, or just drop it in? Try blending it into your other foods that he is taking, make sure it's not too large a piece, a sliver seems to be more enticing than a chunk. Try to move it through the water to elicit a natural feeding response, with a feeding stick or by dropping it in his view in current.

While some lions have been known to eat pellets, after a while waiting for them to dropped into the water column. This activity is almost, if not always, short lived.
I thought the lfs suggesting pellets only was silly. You've got me convinced on the live diet. Mostly ghosties right now, feeder mollies and guppies have been hard to come by lately near me but I keep checking back. I know to stay away from rosies. He just this week started taking silversides. I'm cutting them into pieces he can manage offered on feeding stick or tongs. The salmon and cod I've been cutting into slivers about the size of a ghost shrimp and wiggling them around to try and ellicit a response but no luck so far. I'll keep trying. Thanks for the feedback.
 

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Thanks. I'll check out ebay

I bit the bullet and have a 75 gallon tank just for feeder fish and shrimp. I did have a 20L for it which was okay when I only had one lion.
https://yourfishstore.com/products/feeder-guppy-quarter-box-180-225-count
https://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Live-Freshwater-Ghost-Shrimp-Glass-Shrimp-Grass-Shrimp
https://www.ebay.com/itm/250-Live-F...319006?hash=item4697e8ad1e:g:-roAAOSwjC9ZhnOE
I keep the saltwater shrimp in my fuge.
Sometimes you can get ghost shrimp at Petco. They are as cheep as anywhere else once you pay shipping.
 
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Update. Lionfish stopped eating about a week ago. He was doing great. Grown to almost 3" in size. I feed every other day or 3rd day. Almost all live Ghosties, guppies and mollies when I can get them, occasional Hikari silversides. No physical symptoms. Eyes are clear. Fin rays are all in tack, color and respiration are good. Weight was good and growth rate good. Water parameters are good. He would normally cruise the tank looking to be fed but has been very lethargic the last several days showing little or no movement. Any input? lion king?
 

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First rule out water quality. Digestion issues which could be addressed by raising mg to 1400ppm. Be careful of overfeeding, ghosties and guppies wouldn't usually cause a binding; but too large of a molly could. Mg helps with this as well. Have you introduced other fish that could have introduced parasites, have you feed saltwater fare. Is there someone in the tank that could be bullying. If the water quality is good and the mg is reef level, and the other answers are no, then.

Yes sadly I have seen this scenario dozens of times. While causes may never be known, it usually points to internal organ failure, many times the liver. I base this statement on the number of lions I've dissected after this scenario. I usually see the liver in some sort of damage. I attribute this to a few causes that I consider, it is always some type of poisoning, which is why it effects the liver. Possible causes, cyanide or other chemicals used in collection. Exposure to copper or antibiotics, either treatment or suppliers running copper or med cocktail. Exposure to tank cleaners or other chemical additives. This is usually not recoverable.
 
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He's the last fish introduced, don't think it's parasites. Nothing is bullying. Could be binding from molly, that's the last time it ate. I'll try the mg. Thanks for the input lion king. Always appreciated.
 

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