Lionfish help

[jbeasley]

Hey all I have a volitan lionfish pushing close to a foot long. Guy is a beast and has always slammed any frozen thrawed I throw at him. Last 2 days he has been trying to eat but unable to swallow any size piece of food I’ve offered. All other tanks mates are as normal as ever. Will try and check for a blockage soon but I don’t like that’s what it is. He is protruding his gills (kinda like stretching them) while trying to swallow and ends up spitting it out. Any thoughts?

 

[Reefer Matt]

Hey all I have a volitan lionfish pushing close to a foot long. Guy is a beast and has always slammed any frozen thrawed I throw at him. Last 2 days he has been trying to eat but unable to swallow any size piece of food I’ve offered. All other tanks mates are as normal as ever. Will try and check for a blockage soon but I don’t like that’s what it is. He is protruding his gills (kinda like stretching them) while trying to swallow and ends up spitting it out. Any thoughts?

Mine does this sometimes, and has even gone a week without eating before. The only thing I can think of is smaller pieces of food.

 

[jbeasley]

Hey all I have a volitan lionfish pushing close to a foot long. Guy is a beast and has always slammed any frozen thrawed I throw at him. Last 2 days he has been trying to eat but unable to swallow any size piece of food I’ve offered. All other tanks mates are as normal as ever. Will try and check for a blockage soon but I don’t like that’s what it is. He is protruding his gills (kinda like stretching them) while trying to swallow and ends up spitting it out. Any thoughts?

Mine does this sometimes, and has even gone a week without eating before. The only thing I can think of is smaller pieces of food.

I’ve tried frozen thawed pieces of shrimp and squid the size of a fingernail and still no luck.

 

[Macropharyngodon]

I’ve tried frozen thawed pieces of shrimp and squid the size of a fingernail and still no luck.

If smaller portions are not impacting success. It may be an issue regarding water quality, internal parasites, or disease.

Can we get a picture under white light. And a list of all tank mates and parameters?

 

[jbeasley]

Sal 1.022
Nitrites or nitrates (I never remember which one it is) -40
Ammonia 0
It is a fowlr these are the only Param’s I keep up with
Tank mates:
Snowflake eel
Niger trigger
Blue tang
Blue angelfish
Coral catshark
Halleri ray .

Don’t think it’s water quality everyone else does is acting normal as could be. I will say it very possible the tang angel or trigger could’ve pecked him. regardless I’m mixing salt when I get home and will do 90gal water change. I run carbon 24/7. Oversized skimmer and a refugium.
Will try and get a video when I try to feed again tonight. He still is aggressively trying to eat just can’t seem to swallow it

 

[jbeasley]

Sal 1.022
Nitrites or nitrates (I never remember which one it is) -40
Ammonia 0
It is a fowlr these are the only Param’s I keep up with
Tank mates:
Snowflake eel
Niger trigger
Blue tang
Blue angelfish
Coral catshark
Halleri ray .

Don’t think it’s water quality everyone else does is acting normal as could be. I will say it very possible the tang angel or trigger could’ve pecked him. regardless I’m mixing salt when I get home and will do 90gal water change. I run carbon 24/7. Oversized skimmer and a refugium.
Will try and get a video when I try to feed again tonight. He still is aggressively trying to eat just can’t seem to swallow it

No signs of flashing from anyone. I guess still could be possible parasite with how large his gills are compared to the others. I also run UV 24/7

 

[jbeasley]

View attachment 20251119_185620_A4DDC4C1-1B38-46BF-A3F0-CCBF20F21054.mov

 

[jbeasley]

I’ve tried frozen thawed pieces of shrimp and squid the size of a fingernail and still no luck.

If smaller portions are not impacting success. It may be an issue regarding water quality, internal parasites, or disease.

Can we get a picture under white light. And a list of all tank mates and parameters?

Vid uploaded

 

[jbeasley]

Hey all I have a volitan lionfish pushing close to a foot long. Guy is a beast and has always slammed any frozen thrawed I throw at him. Last 2 days he has been trying to eat but unable to swallow any size piece of food I’ve offered. All other tanks mates are as normal as ever. Will try and check for a blockage soon but I don’t like that’s what it is. He is protruding his gills (kinda like stretching them) while trying to swallow and ends up spitting it out. Any thoughts?

Mine does this sometimes, and has even gone a week without eating before. The only thing I can think of is smaller pieces of food.

Vid uploaded

 

[jbeasley]

View attachment 20251119_185620_A4DDC4C1-1B38-46BF-A3F0-CCBF20F21054.mov

He seems to have fully swallowed the food after about 5 min of struggling

 

[jbeasley]

Hey all I have a volitan lionfish pushing close to a foot long. Guy is a beast and has always slammed any frozen thrawed I throw at him. Last 2 days he has been trying to eat but unable to swallow any size piece of food I’ve offered. All other tanks mates are as normal as ever. Will try and check for a blockage soon but I don’t like that’s what it is. He is protruding his gills (kinda like stretching them) while trying to swallow and ends up spitting it out. Any thoughts?

@Jay Hemdal any thoughts please

 

[Reefer Matt]

I’d give it time, but the #fishmedics may have other thoughts.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal any thoughts please

Goiter (enlargement of the thyroid) can cause a fish to have difficult swallowing food, so can other tumors in that area. Can you try to get a look from the front, down its throat while it is trying to swallow? Look for a white or tan colored mass at the bottom on the throat behind the gills.

Here is some text I wrote about that:

Goiter​

Goiter, also called thyroid hyperplasia, develops in fishes when the thyroid tissue begins to grow outside of its normal location underneath the gills of the fish, forming a bulging protrusion.

Cause
Goiter can be caused by a lack of iodine in the food or water, or by substances called goitrogens, which are toxic and cause goiters to form in fish exposed to them.

With sharks and rays, high nitrate levels (greater than 30 mg/l NO3-N) inhibit the ability of the thyroid gland to utilize available iodine. This, in turn, disrupts the thyroid gland, causing a goiter in those fish.

Treatment
Potassium iodide additions to the water will rarely resolve goiter in fishes. Aquarists have also tried adding elemental iodine (Lugol’s solution) as well as L-thyroxine to the water, but this rarely cures the problem either.

Administering oral doses of potassium iodide (KI) directly in the animal’s diet is the best way to reduce goiter in fishes. The trouble is that the dose is very small: 2.5 mg of KI per pound of animal weight, placed into a favorite food item. Potassium iodide is very bitter, so it must be placed inside an empty gelatin capsule, or the fish may taste it and reject the food.

This treatment may need to be repeated every 18 months or whenever symptoms of goiter return. Fish that have had a large goiter for a long period may be permanently affected. Also, goiters in such fish can become malignant, generally transforming into a carcinoma, which is untreatable.

 

[jbeasley]

@Jay Hemdal any thoughts please

Goiter (enlargement of the thyroid) can cause a fish to have difficult swallowing food, so can other tumors in that area. Can you try to get a look from the front, down its throat while it is trying to swallow? Look for a white or tan colored mass at the bottom on the throat behind the gills.

Here is some text I wrote about that:

Goiter​

Goiter, also called thyroid hyperplasia, develops in fishes when the thyroid tissue begins to grow outside of its normal location underneath the gills of the fish, forming a bulging protrusion.

Cause
Goiter can be caused by a lack of iodine in the food or water, or by substances called goitrogens, which are toxic and cause goiters to form in fish exposed to them.

With sharks and rays, high nitrate levels (greater than 30 mg/l NO3-N) inhibit the ability of the thyroid gland to utilize available iodine. This, in turn, disrupts the thyroid gland, causing a goiter in those fish.

Treatment
Potassium iodide additions to the water will rarely resolve goiter in fishes. Aquarists have also tried adding elemental iodine (Lugol’s solution) as well as L-thyroxine to the water, but this rarely cures the problem either.

Administering oral doses of potassium iodide (KI) directly in the animal’s diet is the best way to reduce goiter in fishes. The trouble is that the dose is very small: 2.5 mg of KI per pound of animal weight, placed into a favorite food item. Potassium iodide is very bitter, so it must be placed inside an empty gelatin capsule, or the fish may taste it and reject the food.

This treatment may need to be repeated every 18 months or whenever symptoms of goiter return. Fish that have had a large goiter for a long period may be permanently affected. Also, goiters in such fish can become malignant, generally transforming into a carcinoma, which is untreatable.

Yes I will try and get a pic of his throat tonight. Would you recommend a RO dip? Going to have to pull him out to look and figured it wouldn’t hurt much. He ate 2 pieces of shrimp last night. Each took a while to get down. Shark and ray doing very well. I do have some Mazzuri shark feed gelatin on hand, I just haven’t used it yet. Would you recommended feeding that? Supposed to help with goiter.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Yes I will try and get a pic of his throat tonight. Would you recommend a RO dip? Going to have to pull him out to look and figured it wouldn’t hurt much. He ate 2 pieces of shrimp last night. Each took a while to get down. Shark and ray doing very well. I do have some Mazzuri shark feed gelatin on hand, I just haven’t used it yet. Would you recommended feeding that? Supposed to help with goiter.

I don't see any need for a FW dip in this case.

Mazuri also makes shark vitamins that have iodine in them. You can try the gel, but I suspect with will just break down as it tries to swallow it.

Captive lionfish have two other nutritional issues; fatty liver and thiamin deficiency. I've not seen either of those two issues cause difficulty swallowing in lionfish, but they are main reasons why lionfish often do not survive longer than 3 years in captivity.

 

[jbeasley]

Update @Jay Hemdal
View attachment 20251120_191205_D239BB7A-EA0F-4825-A26F-A71BDB5EE3C9.mov

View attachment 20251120_191219_2002CAB2-B9FD-47F5-9E86-D88C90C5D344.mov

View attachment 20251120_191231_200A6DFA-0BD5-4D95-9BC1-2666E66A882A.mov

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Update @Jay Hemdal

There seems to be something at the roof of the fish's mouth, but goiter are always at the floor of the mouth, and I don't see any swelling there, so you can rule out goiter.

I'm not sure what's going on - could be a tumor?

 

[jbeasley]

Update @Jay Hemdal

There seems to be something at the roof of the fish's mouth, but goiter are always at the floor of the mouth, and I don't see any swelling there, so you can rule out goiter.

I'm not sure what's going on - could be a tumor?

Dang I hope not :(. He does quite often hit the tongs when he eats. I have to hold it tight because the angel, tang and trigger are like a little wolf pack and run away with any pieces they get. I hope it’s just that. I was not aware lions only live about 3 years in captivity. This was one of the first fish I’ve added to this build. Are they especially susceptible to tumors?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Dang I hope not :(. He does quite often hit the tongs when he eats. I have to hold it tight because the angel, tang and trigger are like a little wolf pack and run away with any pieces they get. I hope it’s just that. I was not aware lions only live about 3 years in captivity. This was one of the first fish I’ve added to this build. Are they especially susceptible to tumors?

No, tumors aren't super common in these, but I have seen a few cases.