Losses during shipping

[skraj011]

I’ve had 3 separate orders from 2 different well respected online shops that have been terrible recently. Holes in bags and room temp water. How common is this?? It’s very frustrating. I’ve never had this expertience with either of these companies on the past…

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I’ve had 3 separate orders from 2 different well respected online shops that have been terrible recently. Holes in bags and room temp water. How common is this?? It’s very frustrating. I’ve never had this expertience with either of these companies on the past…

Aside from packing issues with the shippers, back when I was receiving large numbers of fish, I would expect a background, "normal" shipping mortality rate of about 3% and up to 10% of the overnight carrier shipments would have some issue (damaged boxes or delays). I stopped using overnight carriers and went back to air cargo. Less expensive, and the fish arrive in MUCH better shape, but more of a hassle for me to pick up.

 

[VintageReefer]

I’ve had 3 separate orders from 2 different well respected online shops that have been terrible recently. Holes in bags and room temp water. How common is this?? It’s very frustrating. I’ve never had this expertience with either of these companies on the past…

It’s winter and the shipping Companies are doing terrible. I had two separate orders, two vendors, due to arrive this week, both ups overnight. Different days too for arrival, one due Tuesday, the other due thursday. Both arrived a day late. The Thursday one didn’t arrive until 7:30 pm Friday.

Room temp water…you’re lucky

Temp acclimating my way back up to 78

That said, this delay and issue is the fault of the shipping company

If your bags have holes in them and leaks, that’s poor packing and the fault of the vendor

My torch after temp acclimation and first put in the tank

Cleaned it up and a few hours later

Will it survive ? Who knows for sure

 

[Magic031707]

Same here. Had order with snails and starfish delivered Wednesday, came in below 60 degrees and all dead. They sent out the exact same order after I notified them and the next day came in again dead and cold. Different vendor with fish and they came in super cold and dead. $400 combined gone. I didn't have the insurance on the order, guess some is my fault. I don't have the effort to keep going back and forth. But they claim their packing is great, it wasn't.

 

[VintageReefer]

Same here. Had order with snails and starfish delivered Wednesday, came in below 60 degrees and all dead. They sent out the exact same order after I notified them and the next day came in again dead and cold. Different vendor with fish and they came in super cold and dead. $400 combined gone. I didn't have the insurance on the order, guess some is my fault. I don't have the effort to keep going back and forth. But they claim their packing is great, it wasn't.

That’s horrible. it arrived on time and the vendor still won’t help?

 

[skraj011]

Aside from packing issues with the shippers, back when I was receiving large numbers of fish, I would expect a background, "normal" shipping mortality rate of about 3% and up to 10% of the overnight carrier shipments would have some issue (damaged boxes or delays). I stopped using overnight carriers and went back to air cargo. Less expensive, and the fish arrive in MUCH better shape, but more of a hassle for me to pick up.

Do you ask the vendor to ship via air cargo? I don’t think I’ve seen that as an option.

Maybe I’ll stop ordering fish online until the summer, or maybe just order from California where I live. Of 4 boxes of fish and coral the only thing that survived was a firefish from LA.

 

[Doctorgori]

I stopped using overnight carriers and went back to air cargo. Less expensive, and the fish arrive in MUCH better shape, but more of a hassle for me to pick up.

I'm noticing more vendors are now offering "pick up at carrier facility" as a option

t’s winter and the shipping Companies are doing terrible.

I had a vendor try to justify adding heat packs in June, hopefully a few are left so they can add them in December...but so far a few of my orders have arrived as cold mush

Do you ask the vendor to ship via air cargo? I don’t think I’ve seen that as an option.

See above... best option For some vendors you can select to pickup at the hub...
otherwise only winner is the carrier getting fat off of non-refundable shipping charges

 

[Largeangels]

Not all vendors will do Air Cargo. Another option if you can is to hold at local FedEx or UPS hub and you pick it up as soon as its ready in the morning.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I'm noticing more vendors are now offering "pick up at carrier facility" as a option

I had a vendor try to justify adding heat packs in June, hopefully a few are left so they can add them in December...but so far a few of my orders have arrived as cold mush



See above... best option For some vendors you can select to pickup at the hub...
otherwise only winner is the carrier getting fat off of non-refundable shipping charges

Yes - pick up at the carrier sort facility is a good option! We once had a huge shipment get sent from California by FedEx ground, instead of overnight! One of my staff was moonlighting at our local sort facility, and he saw the boxes go by on the line. He pulled them and got his boss to allow us to get them there and we saved most of the fish....

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Do you ask the vendor to ship via air cargo? I don’t think I’ve seen that as an option.

Maybe I’ll stop ordering fish online until the summer, or maybe just order from California where I live. Of 4 boxes of fish and coral the only thing that survived was a firefish from LA.

I've pretty much stopped ordering via FedEx/UPS between November and April due to the cold weather....and for sure, I never order between Thanksgiving and New Years due to the shipping congestion. I also check the weather along the route and don't order if I think there will be extreme cold or storm delays (but you also need to know what hub is being used, and check the weather there). Another issue is: shipping east to west is better than west to east due to the time change. I've seen fish leave LA on time in the afternoon, but then miss their connecting flights going east (I live in the midwest).

Air cargo is getting more and more difficult to set up. I'm not positive, but all carriers are becoming more restrictive about shipping live animals, and that all seemed to stem from a few dogs dying due to mishandling (ugh). I'm pretty much stuck with using either Southwest or Delta, and Delta has new restrictions on animal shipments....in some cases, you may need to be on record as a "known shipper", and that is a lot of paperwork.

 

[Doctorgori]

Not all vendors will do Air Cargo. Another option if you can is to hold at local FedEx or UPS hub and you pick it up as soon as its ready in the morning.

See above... best option For some vendors you can select to pickup at the hub...

I must be on ignore LOL

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I'm noticing more vendors are now offering "pick up at carrier facility" as a option

I had a vendor try to justify adding heat packs in June, hopefully a few are left so they can add them in December...but so far a few of my orders have arrived as cold mush



See above... best option For some vendors you can select to pickup at the hub...
otherwise only winner is the carrier getting fat off of non-refundable shipping charges

Heat packs are tricky - they need to stay dry and exposed to oxygen in order to work, (getting damp ruins them) and then, their lifespan can be limited. What I do (and this may just be wishful thinking) is to tape them by the edges (not on the pack itself!) to the underside of the lid, and then put a blast of O2 into the box as I close it. I've also done "dry runs" where I test various brands of heat packs to ensure that they can still produce heat during the length of the planned shipment time, then try to figure out how many packs will be needed. Of course, there is always the risk that using a lot of packs, and juicing them with O2, will create too much heat at the start of the shipment, and still allow things to cool down too much later on.

I'm writing a "shipping standards" document for the Association of Zoos and Aquariums, but it won't get finalized and published until later in 2025.

 

[skraj011]

This is a great idea!

 

[danreef55]

I have seen numerous posts regarding losses during shipping and find it troubling. As an importer we had inbound shipment year-round with livestock in transit for a minimum of two days The total journey encompasses packing at origin, delivery to the airport, sitting on the tarmac waiting to get onboard a flight, the flight itself, waiting for Fish & Wildlife clearance at the US airport, transit from the airport to our warehouse. Our loss ratio dealing with fish was a 2% loss and coral less than 1%. We encountered a number of incidents with transit of four days with elevated loss ratios.

Vendor and species selection was fine-tuned over years of operation which yielded our low DOA & DOP. Proper packaging and acclimation are the keys to success. It is difficult to understand massive losses during domestic shipping.

 

[skraj011]

I have seen numerous posts regarding losses during shipping and find it troubling. As an importer we had inbound shipment year-round with livestock in transit for a minimum of two days The total journey encompasses packing at origin, delivery to the airport, sitting on the tarmac waiting to get onboard a flight, the flight itself, waiting for Fish & Wildlife clearance at the US airport, transit from the airport to our warehouse. Our loss ratio dealing with fish was a 2% loss and coral less than 1%. We encountered a number of incidents with transit of four days with elevated loss ratios.

Vendor and species selection was fine-tuned over years of operation which yielded our low DOA & DOP. Proper packaging and acclimation are the keys to success. It is difficult to understand massive losses during domestic shipping.

What’s the quickest way for a hobbyist to get fish from the source? Do some of the folks who import fish, sell direct to customer?