Low Flow, High Bio load, Minimal Mechanical Filtration?

[Wandering Albatross]

Good afternoon all, I've been bouncing around ideas for my new 20g and settled on a themed build, and I wanted some feedback. I'll get a build thread up soon. I'm looking at a lower flow tank (single tunze powerhead), with some macros and zoas/softies/mushrooms that fit the theme. If something would work better than the firefish, it needs to be either dark/black, grey, or red. Maybe a fiery orange. Because of its size and style, it will have no sump, and no AIO style section for equipment. Any equipment will sit directly in the tank. Because of this, I'm exploring ways to reduce filtration equipment that will be tough to hide. Macros to suck up nutrients mostly. Would the 18ish lbs of rock and 20lbs of live sand, 1-3 macros, and some zoas or other softies be enough to filter this tank, or will I still need a hob filter or hob skimmer?

I'm thinking:
Pair of Red Waspfish (the cute little ones)
Pair of either Falco or Pixie Hawkfish (lets say falco for now)
Pair of Firefish
Undecided cuc

Either wasps or hawks can be struck from stocking, or a pair of one and a single of the other, though if one has to go, I'd rather keep the wasps. Firefish can be struck if they are too timid/vulnerable to predation, or if it will allow the wasps and hawks to both stay as pairs.

Thoughts?

 

[Wandering Albatross]

Can anyone guess my theme?

Please ignore cords, the cord octopus and I are arguing on placement.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I have a 4 year old 15 gallon softie tank that has 5 fish and I feed small amounts 3-4 times per day. I have 2 powerheads and no other filtration, just weekly water changes. IMO your idea is very doable. Good luck, it sounds very interesting.

 

[Wandering Albatross]

I have a 4 year old 15 gallon softie tank that has 5 fish and I feed small amounts 3-4 times per day. I have 2 powerheads and no other filtration, just weekly water changes. IMO your idea is very doable. Good luck, it sounds very interesting.

So you think all 6 from a filtration standpoint would be okay? I can add a second powerhead if that would help, but my understanding is that 2 of the 3 types of fish listed are relatively sedentary and might not appreciate super strong flow or use as much swimming space, compared to say a group of chromis. And if I’m adding zoas or softies, they might want less flow too. The macros are debatable, I’ll have to delve deeper into the ones I’m imagining for this build.

 

[vlangel]

I also believe its possible filtration wise. I have a 20g for my aged percula clownfish. I have live rock, some macro algae, a cheap full spectrum light and a Rio 90 powerhead that point up to the surface of the water to aerated the tank. I do a 2.5g water change every other week and that's it.

I would recommend you to have a bigger powerhead than my tank and to do weekly water changes but I definitely think its doable.

 

[Wandering Albatross]

I also believe its possible. I have a 20g for my aged percula clownfish. I have live rock, some macro algae, a cheap full spectrum light and a Rio 90 powerhead that point up to the surface of the water to aerated the tank. I do a 2.5g water change every other week and that's it.

I would recommend you to have a bigger powerhead than my tank and to do weekly water changes but I definitely think its doable.

The tunze I have in there (don’t remember which model) was rated for like 60-80g tanks. I can point it up a little more once the salt is fully mixed. Hopefully that’s enough. I do have a very low power gyre too that I could swap out or add, get more gentle even water movement.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

So you think all 6 from a filtration standpoint would be okay? I can add a second powerhead if that would help, but my understanding is that 2 of the 3 types of fish listed are relatively sedentary and might not appreciate super strong flow or use as much swimming space, compared to say a group of chromis. And if I’m adding zoas or softies, they might want less flow too. The macros are debatable, I’ll have to delve deeper into the ones I’m imagining for this build.

oh no, I thought you meant an or or or choice, but not all 6 lol. Filtration is one thing but territory and personal space are also important considerations.

My 5 fish are 3 clown gobies and 1 redhead goby and 1 royal gramma, but the clown gobies and redhead all together are smaller than than the RG. IMO any of your choices of pairs would be a nice tank easy low maintenance tank, but those 6 fish together are not compatible IMO

 

[vlangel]

oh no, I thought you meant an or or or choice, but not all 6 lol. Filtration is one thing but territory and personal space are also important considerations.

My 5 fish are 3 clown gobies and 1 redhead goby and 1 royal gramma, but the clown gobies and redhead all together are smaller than than the RG. IMO any of your choices of pairs would be a nice tank easy low maintenance tank, but those 6 fish together are not compatible IMO

When I said it was possible I meant filtration wise. I am not familiar with the fish you are considering except the firefish so I can't speak to their compatibility.

 

[Wandering Albatross]

oh no, I thought you meant an or or or choice, but not all 6 lol. Filtration is one thing but territory and personal space are also important considerations.

My 5 fish are 3 clown gobies and 1 redhead goby and 1 royal gramma, but the clown gobies and redhead all together are smaller than than the RG. IMO any of your choices of pairs would be a nice tank easy low maintenance tank, but those 6 fish together are not compatible IMO

My understanding is that the hawks and wasps are perching, with wasps favoring lower areas. If the firefish are anything like my darts, they’ll pick a cave at the base of a rock and hover above it. I have at least 4 caves to choose from, and the hope is that pairs would share the same space or close. I read so many Mixed reviews on hawks so I’m working with what I’ve got. At least one has to stay, the other might be able to hang in the 50g, or even the 150g, depends on temper. There’s more vertical space than horizontal so I’m hoping each would pick a level and stay there.

 

[Wandering Albatross]

oh no, I thought you meant an or or or choice, but not all 6 lol. Filtration is one thing but territory and personal space are also important considerations.

My 5 fish are 3 clown gobies and 1 redhead goby and 1 royal gramma, but the clown gobies and redhead all together are smaller than than the RG. IMO any of your choices of pairs would be a nice tank easy low maintenance tank, but those 6 fish together are not compatible IMO

Let's say hypothetically, cut the hawks to the other tank, keep the wasp pair. Would the firefish still be okay? Do you have any alternative options if not the firefish? Black, grey, red, or orange.

Another hypothetical, if needed to move to the 50g, would the hawks or wasps do better with the following stock? Who might they clash with? Which would be less likely to go after smaller fish or inverts?

coral beauty angel
blue spot puffer
melanurus wrasse
purple firefish
purple stripe dottyback
jawfish or watchman goby
skunk clown pair
maybe blenny
maybe chalk basslet

 

[Wandering Albatross]

When I said it was possible I meant filtration wise. I am not familiar with the fish you are considering except the firefish so I can't speak to their compatibility.

oh no, I thought you meant an or or or choice, but not all 6 lol. Filtration is one thing but territory and personal space are also important considerations.

My 5 fish are 3 clown gobies and 1 redhead goby and 1 royal gramma, but the clown gobies and redhead all together are smaller than than the RG. IMO any of your choices of pairs would be a nice tank easy low maintenance tank, but those 6 fish together are not compatible IMO

I know the picture attached at the top is sub-par, but how would you say the scape looks for perches/territories? Would more angles help? It has 2-3 caves at the base of the rock, and the volcano is open at the top and bottom, totally hollow inside. There are some small holes naturally in some of the rock. I have one more rock I could have as an island in the sand, but I think it’ll look funny with this setup. Everywhere I research says lots of rockwork for territories, but it never says what that looks like.

 

[fish_collector]

Id suggest NOT using dry rock for something that small, especially if you want minimal filtration. I'd order up some TBS rock and use that instead, the benefits far outweigh the upfront cost. By using dry rock you will ultimately be plagued with episode after episode of problem algae and dinos, an hour of reading through threads here on the subject should give you enough info to make the decision.

 

[Wandering Albatross]

Id suggest NOT using dry rock for something that small, especially if you want minimal filtration. I'd order up some TBS rock and use that instead, the benefits far outweigh the upfront cost. By using dry rock you will ultimately be plagued with episode after episode of problem algae and dinos, an hour of reading through threads here on the subject should give you enough info to make the decision.

Unfortunately no longer an option, tank is already wet and cycling, and at this point I’m leery of live rock. I ordered tbs before for the 150, it was kept in the sump to prevent any potentially bad hitchhikers from getting into the DT. Now I’m plagued with aiptasia. It moved up through the pipes after hiding in a crevice in the rubble. I’ll take the dry rock struggle over aiptasia.

 

[Wandering Albatross]

I know the picture attached at the top is sub-par, but how would you say the scape looks for perches/territories? Would more angles help? It has 2-3 caves at the base of the rock, and the volcano is open at the top and bottom, totally hollow inside. There are some small holes naturally in some of the rock. I have one more rock I could have as an island in the sand, but I think it’ll look funny with this setup. Everywhere I research says lots of rockwork for territories, but it never says what that looks like.

Extra angles…

 

[mcarroll]

Because of this, I'm exploring ways to reduce filtration equipment that will be tough to hide.

Seems like a good situation for a Tunze in-tank filter that will give you flow AND hide your heater and Osmolator parts.

3162 is the standard filter model. 3163 is the streamfilter...same size, but has a nanostream powering it. Cool! Optionally deploy their in-tank skimmer as well.

Alternately, deploy ONLY their skimmer and keep it minimal that way.

I think most folks would deploy the 3162 or 3163 filters and 9004 skimmer on a tank this size, and they do have the nicest features.

But the smaller 3161 and 9001 would also be candidates – and they are really small.

Can anyone guess my theme?

;)

it was kept in the sump

Unless you have/had a very unusual sump, the sump is not a good place to QT your rock since you can't see anything going on down there. QT in the display, just take time for that before adding livestock that could be at risk. There's usually no cycle with live rock.

Since it doesn't look like the tank has been running long, even if you had to restart the tank, if real live rock is an option it would be worth it IMO.

I also understand if you can't for some reason.

 

[Wandering Albatross]

Seems like a good situation for a Tunze in-tank filter that will give you flow AND hide your heater and Osmolator parts.

3162 is the standard filter model. 3163 is the streamfilter...same size, but has a nanostream powering it. Cool! Optionally deploy their in-tank skimmer as well.

Alternately, deploy ONLY their skimmer and keep it minimal that way.

I think most folks would deploy the 3162 or 3163 filters and 9004 skimmer on a tank this size, and they do have the nicest features.

But the smaller 3161 and 9001 would also be candidates – and they are really small.

;)


Unless you have/had a very unusual sump, the sump is not a good place to QT your rock since you can't see anything going on down there. QT in the display, just take time for that before adding livestock that could be at risk. There's usually no cycle with live rock.

Since it doesn't look like the tank has been running long, even if you had to restart the tank, if real live rock is an option it would be worth it IMO.

I also understand if you can't for some reason.

I’m unfamiliar with what the above image portrays, is that from a tv show? That’s not quite the theme I was going for…lol

The live rock wasn’t quarantined in the sump, it is part of the sump as a rubble and fuge section, primarily for additional bacterial seeding for the main tank and homes for pods. My sump is easily visible, I can look in from the top or the side, though the fuge light does distort the rubble a little. But aside of giving me a couple limpets, LR has caused me nothing but trouble. I’m a huge fan of the idea of live rock, but my first taste was a very expensive and damaging infestation, that I’m still fighting to eradicate. Despite the problems it causes, it’s still easier to aquascape with dry, and the live I got before was nowhere near as porous as the brs dry, or as affordable. All my builds use dry rock as a base. Just my $0.02. I did use 20lb of live sand though if that helps. I use at least some live sand on all my builds.

I’d rather not have to completely redo the rockwork, in order to get that shape I had to cement it in place. The whole piece could come out, but it would be unpleasant for me, and totally upend the vision I have for this tank.

The tunze filter/skimmer are good ideas, I’ll look into those while I explore my macro options. From a territory aspect, how are the perches and caves?

 

[mcarroll]

What I meant was that it's better to QT in the display [because almost all display tanks have a MUCH better view of the contents than the view into the filter section].....even if you ultimately house it in a sump or wherever else.

Understandable wanting to keep your current setup and muscle through it.

I would definitely give live rock another shot in the future though. QT it in a display tank and enjoy the hitchhikers! Sell off the ones you don't want...deal with pests how you see fit...etc...all before you set up the tank or aquascape per se.

All my builds

How many have you had? (I'm still on my first from almost 20 years ago. )

 

[Louis Z]

A skimmer would be able to deal with DOC and doing water changes weekly would help keep the yellowing of water from increasing . I have been doing small 20 long with clams and sponges and ghost shrimp . The water stays clear and I do have some macro in there as well as seasoned dry rock with an air driven sponge .

 

[Wandering Albatross]

What I meant was that it's better to QT in the display [because almost all display tanks have a MUCH better view of the contents than the view into the filter section].....even if you ultimately house it in a sump or wherever else.

Understandable wanting to keep your current setup and muscle through it.

I would definitely give live rock another shot in the future though. QT it in a display tank and enjoy the hitchhikers! Sell off the ones you don't want...deal with pests how you see fit...etc...all before you set up the tank or aquascape per se.


How many have you had? (I'm still on my first from almost 20 years ago. )

I understand, It's just that I run no quarantine systems. All rock/sand is cured/cycled/or matured directly where it sits. The initial mix is done in the tank itself once my temp is stable. Fish, inverts, and coral are acclimated and added. I go with the ebb and flow of any nuisance algae, but aiptasia can't be treated the same way. I can't broadcast anything for it in a reef (that I know of), aiptasia f can't reach them all, and I can't just rip them out. I have (at least ordered) 4 peppermints and a half dozen or so berghia over a month ago, and while I see a berghia on the glass from time to time, I've seen no real improvement. I'm tempted to try my luck with a filefish, but I'm worried he'll harass my frogspawn.

I have been tempted to set up something really small and buy a couple lbs of the premium tbs live and have whatever comes with it decide my tank. But even a little is expensive, and I could only give up a very small tank that way. Like my 10g.

I've got a 150g reef in progress, a 50g semi aggressive FOWLR that's waiting on a heater, this 20g, and a 10g in the works (the 20g stand has a second shelf for a smaller tank and it'd be rude to leave it empty...). I got the itch bad when I started.

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

Id suggest NOT using dry rock for something that small, especially if you want minimal filtration. I'd order up some TBS rock and use that instead, the benefits far outweigh the upfront cost. By using dry rock you will ultimately be plagued with episode after episode of problem algae and dinos, an hour of reading through threads here on the subject should give you enough info to make the decision.

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