Low Ph - How concerned should I be?

[R33fDaddy]

it could be, but were also early in the day. my apex probe wont reach max pH until about 6pm. in fact, my pH right now is 7.97, so still, im not sure why youre chasing a number right now. on the further right two days, i had my windows open. this is to show the fact that the time in which you tested, is probably the reason for the lower number. if the probe matches the test, then i would suspect it has to do with the time of day. but, unless youre dosing something to keep it equal throughout the whole day, youre going to have high and lows. your highest wont be until at least the later part of the day. also to mention, the left two days i had a scrubber attached as well. the larger vertical lines is when i do my daily manual dose of alk. the furthest right day had a higher dose of alk than the day before. so thats why its kinda all over the place right now.

for example-

I get that but I also have corals that have struggled and are now responding since I've been focusing on rising my PH.

With that being said I believe PH is a huge issue for me. Prior to getting the Apex I never tested PH and when I did it was coming in really low even at its highest of highs. Even if the test kit says 8.0 that's still really low to be your highest level.

I'm basically choosing to believe the Apex. I'm investing a lot of money into this Neptune stuff. I've calibrated the probe and it's giving me exact numbers when dipped in calibration solution; that's good enough for me to feel confident in it.

 

[melonheadorion]

Yes sorry I misinterpreted your comment. I totally agree, i never went through any comment on the forum about issues with pH related to the acidity of the RODI water. Also as @Randy Holmes-Farley explained on his website the main cause of low pH is to be found in CO2 levels, either inside or outside the tank.
The salifert test he did was not looking green from the picture, but it's hard to tell from here. He should get a pH of 8.3 with normal CO2 levels+ scrubber + kh 12 so a dark green color on the test.
I don't know if someone else asked but I would try draw air for the skimmer from the outside and check before lights go on and before they start to ramp down. If you have the opportunity to seal the window and still run an airline outside, depending on the window structure/distance from the tank.

even with that, i dont think it will fix his issue. other than the time of day being the reason for the lower end, it is possible to have a scrubber, have an airline outside, and still not have a high pH. i for example, have a skimmer line running in the window, i actually just closed my window as well, have a scrubber attached as well, and am currently at 8.01. i also have quite a bit of surface agitation, so he could go through all of that, and never fix it, or find a cause to it. my next option, for myself, would be to add chaeto to see if that helps take out c02.
if there is a solution for it, i would be all ears as well, but dosing stuff is not it.

 

[R33fDaddy]

Do you see the media already consumed? It could last very little if you have a lot of indoor CO2.

I checked this morning and it's still pearly white. It's been running for three days.

 

[R33fDaddy]

its guaranteed c02. thats what would cause low pH. but when i say chasing numbers, he is going off of a probe that is quite new, versus going off of a test kit that almost all people on this board would take as more accurate at this point. the issue is c02. guaranteed, but if were trying to correct a 7.8 pH early in the morning, who is to say that his pH isnt 8.15 during the peak time of the day since pH is guaranteed to fluctuate within 12 hours of the same day. were not even at what would be the highest pH time of the day. to combat that, youre gonna have to dose something during the low period, which were still in. but, if you want stability, i wouldnt go on dosing because your alk is already elevated as it is. if anything, i would go chaeto

Just adding a comment about Chaeto: I already have an Algae Scrubber for nutrient export.

I'll also manually test PH, compare to the probe and post the results here in a little while.

 

[KonradTO]

Also, this is obvious but I still will put it out there. If you add more corals you will need to dose more for alk, and therefore you will be able to keep your pH higher. You could add some easy fast growing alk demanding coral in your sump and dose hydroxide or sodium carbonate in small amounts/many intervals. This would help but still won't solve your issue with testing/co2 concentration

 

[atnet360]

This is maybe not that helpful, but I found it very interesting:

My tank has consistently been between 8.0 and 8.1. Not as high as I would like, but not low enough for me to be concerned.

However, I took my first extended vacation away from the tank a few weeks ago. I was super nervous about leaving my tank for so long so I was glad I could check in on it with my apex. About 12 hours after leaving home, I logged into fusion and my heart skipped a beat when I saw the pH chart. pH had spiked to over 8.2! Took me a second to realize that it was because all the CO2 producers had left the house. pH stayed between 8.2 and 8.3 for the entire week we were gone. Within a few hours of getting home, it was back down to 8.0.

It was fascinating to see this play out it real time. The tank is near a window, so now I'm working out how to get outside air to my skimmer intake.

 

[R33fDaddy]

I just did a PH Test results below
Salifert PH Test Kit: I honestly don't know lol. The fluid looks Teal and that doesn't really match any colors on the card. What do you'll think? Dark green or blue here would make feel better.

Apex Probe: 7.91

Yesterday at this same time: 7.83 via Apex

Note: Patio door was open for a little bit but I'm not sure if they would have affected the readings. It was only open for about 15mins.

I just to reiterate that I'm not chasing numbers. I just want to be in a range of 8.0 - 8.3

 

[KonradTO]

I just did a PH Test results below
Salifert PH Test Kit: I honestly don't know lol. The fluid looks Teal and that doesn't really match any colors on the card. What do you'll think? Dark green or blue here would make feel better.

Apex Probe: 7.91

Yesterday at this same time: 7.83 via Apex

Note: Patio door was open for a little bit but I'm not sure if they would have affected the readings. It was only open for about 15mins.

I just to reiterate that I'm not chasing numbers. I just want to be in a range of 8.0 - 8.3

Well. That's confusing..did you try to repeat the salifert test?

 

[melonheadorion]

well, its definately higher than 7.9. its higher than 8 and based on color, higher than 8.1, which brings me back to my original point. although apex is an expensive system, its not without fault. take the reading for whatever you want, but were coming to the point of the day in which your pH should be highest.
with an alk of 12, having a scrubber, got air recirculated in the house, do you feel that none of that would get you above 8, or do you think that the probe is still accurate?

not saying that the probe is wrong, but with everything, i dont personally think its reading properly. if you have an lfs, have them test your ph to see what they come up with. whatever they come up with is probably going to be the most accurate

 

[R33fDaddy]

well, its definately higher than 7.9. its higher than 8 and based on color, higher than 8.1, which brings me back to my original point. although apex is an expensive system, its not without fault. take the reading for whatever you want, but were coming to the point of the day in which your pH should be highest.
with an alk of 12, having a scrubber, got air recirculated in the house, do you feel that none of that would get you above 8, or do you think that the probe is still accurate?

not saying that the probe is wrong, but with everything, i dont personally think its reading properly. if you have an lfs, have them test your ph to see what they come up with. whatever they come up with is probably going to be the most accurate

I still think the probe is accurate because it reads the calibration fluids correctly every time. Plus at this time of day I want to be near that 8.2 - 8.3 range never lower than 8.0. That's pretty much consensus as far as a solid PH range for a reef aquarium. Currently I'm at 7.92 via the Probe.

 

[melonheadorion]

I still think the probe is accurate because it reads the calibration fluids correctly every time. Plus at this time of day I want to be near that 8.2 - 8.3 range never lower than 8.0. That's pretty much consensus as far as a solid PH range for a reef aquarium. Currently I'm at 7.92 via the Probe.

right, but youre still assuming the probe is right. it is KNOWN that these probes have given false readings, even with having calibrated them. for example

Help! pH Probe reading incorrectly

Hi, I've scoured the internet for an answer to this, and I still can't figure out why my probe is reading low. I started with a BRS PH Probe, calibrated it, and then put it in the system. I had a small issue with some stray voltage, but I replaced the pump, added a grounding probe, and it...

forum.neptunesystems.com

Help! Problem with pH probe on apex

So I tried being a responsible reefer today and decided to clean and recalibrate my pH probe. Well afterwards the reading is now significantly off. My pH is usually 7.9-8.1, my pH probe is now reading 7.47. It’s strange because when I have the probe in the different calibrating solutions...

www.reef2reef.com

pH probe reads 7.3 but that can't be right....help?

I've been having an issue with my pH probe and I can't seem to determine if its a probe malfunction or not. My tank has been running normally at 7.7-7.9 for about six months now (due to high C02 in the apartment as proven by Randy's test, otherwise it would be higher). That being said, a few week...

www.nano-reef.com

if we go off of what i think is correct, youre around an 8.2. i firmly believe that your probe is giving you a false reading at this time, based on evidence

i would have it tested against a seperate ph test kit, and see what it comes up with. at this point, i would bet that it also doesnt match what the probe says.

if it wasnt 8.2, do you think your sps would have reacted like they did earlier today?

 

[R33fDaddy]

right, but youre still assuming the probe is right. it is KNOWN that these probes have given false readings, even with having calibrated them. for example

Help! pH Probe reading incorrectly

Hi, I've scoured the internet for an answer to this, and I still can't figure out why my probe is reading low. I started with a BRS PH Probe, calibrated it, and then put it in the system. I had a small issue with some stray voltage, but I replaced the pump, added a grounding probe, and it...

forum.neptunesystems.com

Help! Problem with pH probe on apex

So I tried being a responsible reefer today and decided to clean and recalibrate my pH probe. Well afterwards the reading is now significantly off. My pH is usually 7.9-8.1, my pH probe is now reading 7.47. It’s strange because when I have the probe in the different calibrating solutions...

www.reef2reef.com

pH probe reads 7.3 but that can't be right....help?

I've been having an issue with my pH probe and I can't seem to determine if its a probe malfunction or not. My tank has been running normally at 7.7-7.9 for about six months now (due to high C02 in the apartment as proven by Randy's test, otherwise it would be higher). That being said, a few week...

www.nano-reef.com

if we go off of what i think is correct, youre around an 8.2. i firmly believe that your probe is giving you a false reading at this time, based on evidence

i would have it tested against a seperate ph test kit, and see what it comes up with. at this point, i would bet that it also doesnt match what the probe says.

if it wasnt 8.2, do you think your sps would have reacted like they did earlier today?

Thanks for linking those threads; I'm about to read through them.

 

[melonheadorion]

Thanks for linking those threads; I'm about to read through them.

even mine is off by about .2 right now. i hate the fact that i cannot trust it to be 100% accurate, but i mostly use this setup to just watch for huge changes to alert me to problems. after i just checked my ph with my apex, and two seperate kits, when mine reads 8.1, i know its actually about an 8.2/8.3 . if i read correctly within the apex forums, these use electrical current to make readings, which would explain why they can be altered by stray voltage, so keep that in mind as well.

 

[KonradTO]

even mine is off by about .2 right now. i hate the fact that i cannot trust it to be 100% accurate, but i mostly use this setup to just watch for huge changes to alert me to problems. after i just checked my ph with my apex, and two seperate kits, when mine reads 8.1, i know its actually about an 8.2/8.3 . if i read correctly within the apex forums, these use electrical current to make readings, which would explain why they can be altered by stray voltage, so keep that in mind as well.

Just as a side note: if the water measured outside the tank (in a mug) gives same results you can be sure that stray voltages are not involved or at least not enough to change the ph values sensibly

 

[melonheadorion]

Just as a side note: if the water measured outside the tank (in a mug) gives same results you can be sure that stray voltages are not involved or at least not enough to change the ph values sensibly

stray voltage doesnt have to just be in the tank for the apex to read wrong. the wire connecting the probe is also a problem point.

 

[Tamberav]

The Neptune stuff is so expensive that I was hoping to be able to rely on it. I guess I can get an API test kit or something just to compare.

money does not equal reliability in this hobby. Don’t fall into that trap

technology has only gotten so far, stuff is still hobby grade, and some companies still use relatively cheap components and housings.

Not sure if you have to dose yet but my pH came up and was more steady when tank matured enough I start using esv 2 part.

You could always just get a scrubber if you want to. It isn’t going to harm your tank at this point but will be another cost and media to replace.

 

[KonradTO]

money does not equal reliability in this hobby. Don’t fall into that trap

technology has only gotten so far, stuff is still hobby grade, and some companies still use relatively cheap components and housings.

Not sure if you have to dose yet but my pH came up and was more steady when tank matured enough I start using esv 2 part.

You could always just get a scrubber if you want to. It isn’t going to harm your tank at this point but will be another cost and media to replace.

He already is using a scrubber. He went from 7.6 to 7.9 with it

 

[KonradTO]

stray voltage doesnt have to just be in the tank for the apex to read wrong. the wire connecting the probe is also a problem point.

True. You should see the mess behind my tank, I should do something about it

 

[melonheadorion]

True. You should see the mess behind my tank, I should do something about it

mine too, and to completely isolate the wires for these probes is just impossible for most people. the probe wires have to cross near something electric at some point

 

[lost66]

A long shot - check PH of water tank outside the tank. Just pour to a glass and test outside the tank to eliminate that stray voltage and magnetic things.

I also struggled with PH and what I did is to suck fresh air from outside the house to skimmer inlet. That was it in my case and corals appreciated it in a week. Huge difference in a growth. It jumped from 7.8 to 8.2.