Mandarin Goby not eating, breathing fast

[Doglips56]

I’m not sure what the life expectancy is of a mandarin Goby but ours is definitely dying and I have no idea what to do for it. They aren’t amenable to medications, I know for certain he is t starving as I have A LOT of pods. He was eating well, hasn’t lost body mass and was active till 2 days ago. I thought I was going to lose it then but it perked up the next day. I wasn’t here most of yesterday so I don’t really know how he was acting but the attached picture I just took and he’s not looking good. Any advice? I do have a hospital tank but it isn’t stocked with pods and I could put a sponge in there from my sump and hope there are enough.
It was full grown when we got it so I really don’t know how old he is.
Feedback please.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

How long have you had this fish, and when/what was the last animal that you added to this aquarium? Mandarins have a lot of skin mucus, this looks like how they show Cryptocaryon (ich).

I don't know their full life expectancy, but I've had a male live 5+ years.

Jay

 

[MERKEY]

+1 to Jay

Looks like its gotten ich, so sorry

 

[Doglips56]

How long have you had this fish, and when/what was the last animal that you added to this aquarium? Mandarins have a lot of skin mucus, this looks like how they show Cryptocaryon (ich).

I don't know their full life expectancy, but I've had a male live 5+ years.

Jay

This is the last fish we added to the tank. I asked a trusted member of my local club if it was i had and he told me mandarins can’t get it. All other fish are completely healthy and i have free. I have a navy blue tang so I’d definitely notice it. We always qt but didn’t qt this one because were told they don’t carry disease and don’t do well in qt.
We added it on August 8th. To be safe I added half a gallon of pods to the tank 2 nights ago even though I’m sure I have a healthy population of them but it hasn’t helped.
Is this treatable or do you think it’s doomed?

 

[catalystNfacade]

My scooter dragonite started showing signs of stress after a pygne angle got ich. I put a uv sterilizer in the tank and everything got better in a day. It was stressful waiting for the sterilizer to show up while watching the fish and clock though.

 

[Doglips56]

I already run a UV 24/7. It looks bad then it perks up a little. It’s a fighter if nothing else. I just feel helpless.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

This is the last fish we added to the tank. I asked a trusted member of my local club if it was i had and he told me mandarins can’t get it. All other fish are completely healthy and i have free. I have a navy blue tang so I’d definitely notice it. We always qt but didn’t qt this one because were told they don’t carry disease and don’t do well in qt.
We added it on August 8th. To be safe I added half a gallon of pods to the tank 2 nights ago even though I’m sure I have a healthy population of them but it hasn’t helped.
Is this treatable or do you think it’s doomed?

A UV sterilizer won't help this fish, but it *may* reduce the chance of the other fish getting whatever it has (but that is never a sure thing, it may just delay it). My visual diagnosis of ich could be wrong, that is the issue with trying to ID diseases from photos alone. Mandarins definitely do not do well in QTs. You could try a FW dip to see if it brings any relief, but it won't be a cure.

Jay

 

[Doglips56]

A UV sterilizer won't help this fish, but it *may* reduce the chance of the other fish getting whatever it has (but that is never a sure thing, it may just delay it). My visual diagnosis of ich could be wrong, that is the issue with trying to ID diseases from photos alone. Mandarins definitely do not do well in QTs. You could try a FW dip to see if it brings any relief, but it won't be a cure.

Jay

I’ve never done a freshwater dip, how is it done?
Thanks.
Nancy

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I’ve never done a freshwater dip, how is it done?
Thanks.
Nancy

Below is some text that I wrote about FW dips. Remember though, it is a process that is not without its risks! You'll want to look at the bottom of the dip container afterwards to see if there are any flukes (worms) in it. You may need a magnifying glass.

Osmotic differential baths

Formalin is not the only irritant that can be used to dislodge parasites during a diagnostic bath. Osmotic differential baths (exposing a marine fish to freshwater, and vice versa) are also effective at loosening parasites. However, there is a greater possibility that the shape of the organism will be disrupted by osmotic pressure to such an extent that proper identification would be difficult. “Freshwater dips” are commonly used to dislodge parasites from the skin of marine fishes. To perform these dips, the fish is captured and placed in a dimly lit container of clean freshwater the same temperature as the aquarium system it came from. The dip container should be covered with a clear material so that the fish is kept from jumping out, yet can still be observed for overt signs of stress. Hold the fish in the freshwater for five minutes to seven minutes. If acute stress is seen, the dip may need to be terminated early. The idea is to dislodge the parasites, without unduly harming the fish. Many aquarists opt to use reverse osmosis water, and adjust the pH to match the aquarium, but this is simply not necessary if the pH of the freshwater is between 7.5 and 8.5. Some advocate to not aerate the water during the dip, but the water motion from air bubbles can help keep the fish active so that they can be better assessed for stress. Additionally, the air bubbles help dislodge some parasites during the dip process.



Some caveats:

• Some fish will give extreme reactions to being dipped (hepatus tangs for example), as long as they were swimming well before the dip, it is best to ignore that behavior and continue for a full five minutes.
• Moribund fish can be dipped, but understand that the acute stress from the dip may prove fatal. The dip water should still be checked for parasites in order to possibly help any remaining fish. Moribund would include any fish that was easy to capture or a fish with a respiration rate of 200+ BPM.
• Choose the type of net wisely, some fish have spines that will become caught in the netting. Have a pair of scissors handy to cut the net if this happens.
• Dropping a fish while moving it to and from the dip is common, take care. Some fish have venomous spines, so know that before trying to handle any fish.
• Fish shaking their heads violently after capture is one cause of mechanical exophthalmos (popeye), so try to gently restrain them in the net while moving them.

Jay

 

[Doglips56]

Thank you

 

[Doglips56]

Below is some text that I wrote about FW dips. Remember though, it is a process that is not without its risks! You'll want to look at the bottom of the dip container afterwards to see if there are any flukes (worms) in it. You may need a magnifying glass.

Osmotic differential baths

Formalin is not the only irritant that can be used to dislodge parasites during a diagnostic bath. Osmotic differential baths (exposing a marine fish to freshwater, and vice versa) are also effective at loosening parasites. However, there is a greater possibility that the shape of the organism will be disrupted by osmotic pressure to such an extent that proper identification would be difficult. “Freshwater dips” are commonly used to dislodge parasites from the skin of marine fishes. To perform these dips, the fish is captured and placed in a dimly lit container of clean freshwater the same temperature as the aquarium system it came from. The dip container should be covered with a clear material so that the fish is kept from jumping out, yet can still be observed for overt signs of stress. Hold the fish in the freshwater for five minutes to seven minutes. If acute stress is seen, the dip may need to be terminated early. The idea is to dislodge the parasites, without unduly harming the fish. Many aquarists opt to use reverse osmosis water, and adjust the pH to match the aquarium, but this is simply not necessary if the pH of the freshwater is between 7.5 and 8.5. Some advocate to not aerate the water during the dip, but the water motion from air bubbles can help keep the fish active so that they can be better assessed for stress. Additionally, the air bubbles help dislodge some parasites during the dip process.



Some caveats:

• Some fish will give extreme reactions to being dipped (hepatus tangs for example), as long as they were swimming well before the dip, it is best to ignore that behavior and continue for a full five minutes.
• Moribund fish can be dipped, but understand that the acute stress from the dip may prove fatal. The dip water should still be checked for parasites in order to possibly help any remaining fish. Moribund would include any fish that was easy to capture or a fish with a respiration rate of 200+ BPM.
• Choose the type of net wisely, some fish have spines that will become caught in the netting. Have a pair of scissors handy to cut the net if this happens.
• Dropping a fish while moving it to and from the dip is common, take care. Some fish have venomous spines, so know that before trying to handle any fish.
• Fish shaking their heads violently after capture is one cause of mechanical exophthalmos (popeye), so try to gently restrain them in the net while moving them.

Jay

Jay,
I did the freshwater dip for 4 minutes but I. Really thought he was going to die in there. He seems perked up and looks more vibrant color wise but breathing REALLY hard now. I used a flashlight and I see absolutely nothing in the bucket other than bits of sand. Are flukes like worms?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Jay,
I did the freshwater dip for 4 minutes but I. Really thought he was going to die in there. He seems perked up and looks more vibrant color wise but breathing REALLY hard now. I used a flashlight and I see absolutely nothing in the bucket other than bits of sand. Are flukes like worms?

Yes - flukes (trematodes) are worm-like. After a FW dip, they do contort up quite a bit, but you should see something in the container. I think it does probably have ich. The FW dip may buy you a bit of time, but the prognosis is poor. You would need to move it to a QT and try copper (knowing that mandarins don't do well with that treatment). You need to watch any other fish in the same tank for similar issues.

Jay

 

[bluprntguy]

An alternative to copper treating a mandarin is tank transfer or modified tank transfer:

Hybrid TTM to treat all parasites!

10/9/2022: Jay Hemdal and the current Fish Medic staff are suggesting that people find other treatments rather than TTM. It has some substantial drawbacks: “Tank chasing” method (Tank Transfer Method - TTM) A mostly theoretical method for treating Cryptocaryon infections takes advantage of...

www.reef2reef.com

Feeding for the mandarin during the tank transfer and quarantine can be accomplished by hatching baby brine shrimp and feeding a few times a day. If you want to go all out, you can culture some grindal worms too. Just turn off all the pumps for 30 minutes and allow the mandarin to eat. Over feeding with TTM isn’t much of a problem as you are replacing all the water every 3 days.

 

[Doglips56]

Yes - flukes (trematodes) are worm-like. After a FW dip, they do contort up quite a bit, but you should see something in the container. I think it does probably have ich. The FW dip may buy you a bit of time, but the prognosis is poor. You would need to move it to a QT and try copper (knowing that mandarins don't do well with that treatment). You need to watch any other fish in the same tank for similar issues.

Jay

Thanks Jay. I know I have had ich in my tank before and had QT’d everything prior so not even sure what it came in on. But none of my fish have ever gotten sick from it. This guy does have a really ratty tail fin but the rest of the fins look normal. I have 2 tangs, 2 wrasse, 2 clowns, 2 pj cardinals, diamond goby, fire goby, lawnmower blenny, Royal gramma, 2 tiny blue chromis and all are ich free and acting normal. This mandarin is pretty big and we got it from an lfs. I’ve seen significantly smaller ones so I’m thinking this was wild caught and older and not doing well with aquarium life. My bristletooth tang is a baby and was wild caught. He’s finally just now figuring out how to live in a tank and coexist with everyone else, but he’s slowly figuring it out.

 

[PTXReef]

How large is that mandy? I would also try the protocol suggested by humblefish. Following for updates. Hope the little guy makes it!

An alternative to copper treating a mandarin is tank transfer or modified tank transfer:

Hybrid TTM to treat all parasites!

10/9/2022: Jay Hemdal and the current Fish Medic staff are suggesting that people find other treatments rather than TTM. It has some substantial drawbacks: “Tank chasing” method (Tank Transfer Method - TTM) A mostly theoretical method for treating Cryptocaryon infections takes advantage of...

www.reef2reef.com

Feeding for the mandarin during the tank transfer and quarantine can be accomplished by hatching baby brine shrimp and feeding a few times a day. If you want to go all out, you can culture some grindal worms too. Just turn off all the pumps for 30 minutes and allow the mandarin to eat. Over feeding with TTM isn’t much of a problem as you are replacing all the water every 3 days.

 

[Doglips56]

How large is that mandy? I would also try the protocol suggested by humblefish. Following for updates. Hope the little guy makes it!

I’m not good at the measuring just by looking thing but I would say 3” and seems to have good body weight. Unfortunately I’m about to have surgery and there is no way I can start this tank transfer method and follow through appropriately. It’s bad timing for it to be sick now. I’m just thankful the rest are looking ok. I noticed the mandarin not looking normal on Thursday but seemed perkier Friday. I added another half gallon of fresh pods, even though I doubt I needed them but wanted to be extra certain but he’s just been lethargic and now the breathing. I’ve never seen it poop in a month so can’t speak about possible internal parasites. If it is something contagious no one else is showing any sign of illness (thank God)

 

[PTXReef]

I’m not good at the measuring just by looking thing but I would say 3” and seems to have good body weight. Unfortunately I’m about to have surgery and there is no way I can start this tank transfer method and follow through appropriately. It’s bad timing for it to be sick now. I’m just thankful the rest are looking ok. I noticed the mandarin not looking normal on Thursday but seemed perkier Friday. I added another half gallon of fresh pods, even though I doubt I needed them but wanted to be extra certain but he’s just been lethargic and now the breathing. I’ve never seen it poop in a month so can’t speak about possible internal parasites. If it is something contagious no one else is showing any sign of illness (thank God)

I have actually never seen my mandys poop. I have a 3” and a 1.5”. Hope the mandy pulls through but More importantly, wishing you a successful surgery and speedy recovery!

 

[Doglips56]

I have actually never seen my mandys poop. I have a 3” and a 1.5”. Hope the mandy pulls through but More importantly, wishing you a successful surgery and speedy recovery!

Thank you. It’s my 20th in just the past few years but only my 2nd this year so that’s an improvement! Spent most of the first half of last year in the hospital.

 

[Doglips56]

So morning update: Mandarin sadly passed away overnight which I pretty much had resigned myself to. Too a while to find the body because our large purple pincushion is taking care of the remains currently.

 

[najer]

Sorry you lost him, I am no real help with fish diagnosis, keep an eye on the tang as my guess is that that will be your indicator fish.

edit, when did you last change your UV bulb?