Manganese supplement for Goniopora?

[Treefer32]

I dose what's in red sea trace elements a, b, c , d once a week. In a 340 gallon tank and have 4 colonies of goni doing amazing two colonies are almost 5 inch balls with long tentacles! I wouldn't worry so much about exact numbers. Dose some amount per week and evaluate things. Observe.

 

[Terrapod]

Again, 2 ug/L seems high to me. Manganese is also rapidly depleted.

If you try to split that dosing over many days you may never reach the target.

If you dose 1.5 ug/L all at once, then in a week it may be back to undetectable.

If I were to dose manganese, which is a reasonable plan, I'd personally dose about 100 ng/mL per day and then get an ICP test after a couple of weeks of dosing.

Will try and work that out!

 

[Terrapod]

I dose what's in red sea trace elements a, b, c , d once a week. In a 340 gallon tank and have 4 colonies of goni doing amazing two colonies are almost 5 inch balls with long tentacles! I wouldn't worry so much about exact numbers. Dose some amount per week and evaluate things. Observe.

The point is I am not spending money on rodi from red sea, so trying to dial in as best possible by buying mineral salts.

 

[Terrapod]

Again, 2 ug/L seems high to me. Manganese is also rapidly depleted.

If you try to split that dosing over many days you may never reach the target.

If you dose 1.5 ug/L all at once, then in a week it may be back to undetectable.

If I were to dose manganese, which is a reasonable plan, I'd personally dose about 100 ng/mL per day and then get an ICP test after a couple of weeks of dosing.

I assume you mean Ng/L and not Ng/ml?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I assume you mean Ng/L and not Ng/ml?

Sorry, yes, I fixed it. We use ng/mL for drug in blood concentrations at work, so that's what gets typed reflexively.

 

[Terrapod]

Sorry, yes, I fixed it. We use ng/mL for drug in blood concentrations at work, so that's what gets typed reflexively.

And this manganese, I can dose it at room temp out of a bottle via doser? Won't go funny on me?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

And this manganese, I can dose it at room temp out of a bottle via doser? Won't go funny on me?

Yes.

 

[Treefer32]

I meant that chasing numbers especially nano numbers is a bit difficult. I can't keep elegance alive to save my soul. I don't know what's wrong with my water. Would I do what you're doing to have one, probably not. There's so much that impacts water chemistry that we cannot control everything. We can manage things. But you're talking about pure control of specific elements.

I do not use water changes to manage trace elements. I simply dose them based on the bottle and dose 1-2 times a week. If things lose color or look a little droopy I'll dose more. But so far, this has worked for me.

As Randy indicated, algae consumes a lot of the trace elements. Whether it's algae on the rocks, in a scrubber, or in a refugium, there's algae in our tanks that consume minerals in much larger quantities than we dose.

I do maybe a water change every 6 months. If that. I do an ICP test once a year to check things. The result is always come back with some trace elements below normal and the rest normal.

I keep the corals I want alive with my current practices. My point is worry less about the actual numbers and more about how to make sure the animals are fed!

 

[Terrapod]

I meant that chasing numbers especially nano numbers is a bit difficult. I can't keep elegance alive to save my soul. I don't know what's wrong with my water. Would I do what you're doing to have one, probably not. There's so much that impacts water chemistry that we cannot control everything. We can manage things. But you're talking about pure control of specific elements.

I do not use water changes to manage trace elements. I simply dose them based on the bottle and dose 1-2 times a week. If things lose color or look a little droopy I'll dose more. But so far, this has worked for me.

As Randy indicated, algae consumes a lot of the trace elements. Whether it's algae on the rocks, in a scrubber, or in a refugium, there's algae in our tanks that consume minerals in much larger quantities than we dose.

I do maybe a water change every 6 months. If that. I do an ICP test once a year to check things. The result is always come back with some trace elements below normal and the rest normal.

I keep the corals I want alive with my current practices. My point is worry less about the actual numbers and more about how to make sure the animals are fed!

My tank isn't a nano, nor have I ever had feeding issues.

My icps are strong with the exception of a few trace which need topping up.

I refuse to pay for branded reef supplements, due to their makeup and massive dilution making them very weak.

I don't see any issue with dialling in trace once a month to keep the tank in its best condition.

Dosing trace based on droopy corals is not likely to be trace, nor do I feel water changes once a year is a good approach but there are many ways to skin a cat!

Good luck.

 

[tom66645]

Why is Manganese so expensive?

Buy manganese sulfate and make yourself, it'll last a lifetime

 

[tom66645]

Buy manganese sulfate and make yourself, it'll last a lifetime

I just bought 1lb, it should last about 300 years

 

[reefer333_]

@Randy Holmes-Farley would this Manganese product be ok to use to dose manganese into the tank? Wanted to experiment with dosing Manganese for my gonis. Thanks.

Amazon product ASIN B09WBRPB8V

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

@Randy Holmes-Farley would this Manganese product be ok to use to dose manganese into the tank? Wanted to experiment with dosing Manganese for my gonis. Thanks.

Amazon product ASIN B09WBRPB8V

That should be good. I’d try to open the capsules and use just the inside, if possible.

 

[reefer333_]

That should be good. I’d try to open the capsules and use just the inside, if possible.

Thank you very much, @Randy Holmes-Farley.

Would you mind double checking my calculation, please?

So you said you would personally dose about 100 ng/ L per day and check with ICP after a couple of weeks.

My tank total volume is about 100 gallons. (379 L)
100 ng/L x 379 L = 37,900 ng (0.038 mg) per day


1 Capsule from above link contains 8mg of Manganese. 1 capsule in 80 ml of RODI water.

8 mg in 80 ml = 8mg/ 80 ml = .1 mg/ ml = 100 mg/ L

0.038 mg/ 100 mg/ L = 0.00038 L or 0.38 ml daily dosing. Does it sound right to you? Thanks.

BTW, i used to have refugium with chaeto, but i take it out about 2 months ago and only dosing 36 ml of vinegar per day for nitrate, so I no longer has refugium on the system. Would you recommend I dose less than 100 ng/L per day or would you recommend the same amount?Thanks.

Cal 450
ALK 9
NO3 13.1
PO4 0.02 (dosing Brightwell NeoPhos to keep PO4 above 0.00)

 

[Brisk]

Here's the calculation for the second one that Miami recommended (from another thread):


Let's suppose your target is 165 ng/L, which is a typical ocean value (it varies a lot). Triton uses a set point 10x higher.

100 gallons is 379 liters.

So a NSW value of 165 ng/L x 379 L = 62,535 ng (0.063 mg) in your tank.

From the stock recipe above:

Manganese(II) chloride tetrahydrate is 28% manganese by weight.
Here's a recipe:

Dissolve 1 gram (which contains 280 mg actual manganese) in 2.8 L fresh water. Manganese = 280 mg/2.8 L = 100 mg/l.

Thus you want 0.063 mg/100 mg/L = 0.00063 L or 0.6 mL added to the 100 gallon tank to match typical NSW levels.

IF you used manganese gluconate (about 12.4% manganese by weight) you would need to use about twice as much.

Hi @Randy Holmes-Farley. Using this recipe for Manganese(II) chloride tetrahydrate and 150g tank, is my calculations correct?

And can I use .5 gram in 1.4 L of Fresh Water instead ?

150 gallon = 568 L
165 ng/L x 568 L = 93,720 ng (0.094 mg)

0.094 mg/100 mg/L = 0.00094 L

0.9 mL dosing daily to 150 gallons?

 

[bkwonnn]

@Hans-Werner , @Lou Ekus
Do you know if there is enough manganese in all for reef and/or Tropic marin pro reef for goniopora or should we add extra manganese ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

@Hans-Werner , @Lou Ekus
Do you know if there is enough manganese in all for reef and/or Tropic marin pro reef for goniopora or should we add extra manganese ?

I'm certain that no one can answer that question as written since it does not specify what dose of AFR or water change amount and frequency of the salt mix one is using.

 

[bkwonnn]

I understand your point, but i was thinking maybe tropic marin added manganese in a quantity that it would suit alot of reef tanks, just like they did with the other parameters. That if your alk or calcium would be good, manganese should be fine also, or maybe they went more cautious with magnese quantity for a good reason.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I understand your point, but i was thinking maybe tropic marin added manganese in a quantity that it would suit alot of reef tanks, just like they did with the other parameters. That if your alk or calcium would be good, manganese should be fine also, or maybe they went more cautious with magnese quantity for a good reason.

No, assuring alk and calcium is good will not assure any specific amount of manganese or any other trace element is added, since alk demand can vary all the way down to close to zero, needing little AFR.

I'm sure there is some level of water change that attains the need, and some level of AFR use that does so too. Same for a level of each that does not. But, of course, one also needs to consider what sinks there may be in your reef tank. Algae (macro and micro) is a huge user of manganese.

The amount of manganese in these products is known, if you have a target that you want to maintain or amount you want to add daily.

That said, I'm curious what @Hans-Werner says about goniopora. :)

 

[Luminous74]

According to Hans-Werner’s information, AFR contains 1,388 micrograms of manganese per liter. If my calculations are correct, we would dose about 1.388 micrograms of manganese per milliliter of AFR.
In my tank, I dose 10 ml per day, which corresponds to a daily manganese dose of 13.88 micrograms per 100 liters. This results in a daily increase of 0.139 micrograms per liter in the tank.
However, manganese is never detectable in my ICP tests. Maybe that’s a clue.