Mantis is swimming curled and other odd behavior

[SaltyCabbage]

Only had this mantis for two weeks but for the last two days it’s been swimming in this curled position, kind of darting in the tank, and then will groom itself on the ground and roll on its back.

It’s still acting normal like hunting crabs and getting shells for its burrow but will do this curled behavior for about 30 minutes before going back to normal. As I’m typing this the mantis is smashing something and acting normal in its burrow.

I have 5g of saltwater mixing and will do a 25% change today and another 25% tomorrow.

Params are normal 0/0/40? Salinity is 1.024, phos is under .3, ph is 8-8.1, alk is 9, don’t have calcium test on me but will bring some water to the lfs to test later today.

Temp is stable 77f

will attach videos but if they don’t load here is a YouTube link of the behavior





Thank you for your time and help.

 

[SaltyCabbage]

Here you can see after it does the odd curled swimming behavior it will go back into its burrow and act completely normal.

I added a pvc pipe as a hide on the right of the tank but when I added the mantis but it chose to dig a burrow on the left. Maybe is needs a larger space and it’s trying to molt?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Only had this mantis for two weeks but for the last two days it’s been swimming in this curled position, kind of darting in the tank, and then will groom itself on the ground and roll on its back.

It’s still acting normal like hunting crabs and getting shells for its burrow but will do this curled behavior for about 30 minutes before going back to normal. As I’m typing this the mantis is smashing something and acting normal in its burrow.

I have 5g of saltwater mixing and will do a 25% change today and another 25% tomorrow.

Params are normal 0/0/40? Salinity is 1.024, phos is under .3, ph is 8-8.1, alk is 9, don’t have calcium test on me but will bring some water to the lfs to test later today.

Temp is stable 77f

will attach videos but if they don’t load here is a YouTube link of the behavior





Thank you for your time and help.

Hang tight as it may be starting and struggling to molt
Other would be high nitrate. high salinity, Low calcium level and possible low level toxins as you have what looks like developing dinoflagellates

 

[TripFamAZ]

Have you done an ammonia test recently just to be safe?
Def could be molting behavior… mine tends to hole up in his burrow when he does it but I have seen them do this before.

 

[SaltyCabbage]

Hang tight as it may be starting and struggling to molt
Other would be high nitrate. high salinity, Low calcium level and possible low level toxins as you have what looks like developing dinoflagellates

Have you done an ammonia test recently just to be safe?
Def could be molting behavior… mine tends to hole up in his burrow when he does it but I have seen them do this before.

Thank you both! I tested ammonia, nitrite and nitrate this morning and got 0/0/30-40. Been consistent since I set the tank up but nitrate definitely jumped since I tested on Wednesday.

I did a 25% change wc and nitrate is hovering around 20ppm-30ppm. (Strips and liquid tests)

Will do another 25% change tonight or tomorrow morning as I don’t want to have parameters move so fast.

I’m guessing keeping lights to a minimum and leaving everything alone aside from the wc is the best course of action? It’s been clicking in the burrow for a few hours now so hopefully I’m worried over nothing and it’s trying to molt.

Thank you again for the help!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thank you both! I tested ammonia, nitrite and nitrate this morning and got 0/0/30-40. Been consistent since I set the tank up but nitrate definitely jumped since I tested on Wednesday.

I did a 25% change wc and nitrate is hovering around 20ppm-30ppm. (Strips and liquid tests)

Will do another 25% change tonight or tomorrow morning as I don’t want to have parameters move so fast.

I’m guessing keeping lights to a minimum and leaving everything alone aside from the wc is the best course of action? It’s been clicking in the burrow for a few hours now so hopefully I’m worried over nothing and it’s trying to molt.

Thank you again for the help!

Minimal lights yes and I can assume you are using API test which may be higher than you are seeing. Disregard nitrite unless superhigh and is used for freshwater tests
A second test with a water sample to an LFS may not be bad to see what they come up with and to compare with your results

 

[TripFamAZ]

Thank you both! I tested ammonia, nitrite and nitrate this morning and got 0/0/30-40. Been consistent since I set the tank up but nitrate definitely jumped since I tested on Wednesday.

I did a 25% change wc and nitrate is hovering around 20ppm-30ppm. (Strips and liquid tests)

Will do another 25% change tonight or tomorrow morning as I don’t want to have parameters move so fast.

I’m guessing keeping lights to a minimum and leaving everything alone aside from the wc is the best course of action? It’s been clicking in the burrow for a few hours now so hopefully I’m worried over nothing and it’s trying to molt.

Thank you again for the help!

Def keep lights off until you see more normal behavior to be on the safe side. I would personally check your water parameters (including salinity) daily just in case and to keep your mind at ease that that isn’t the issue.
Keep us updated as molting is def stressful with these guys and if he is molting you don’t want to be doing too many water changes during it if your readings are ok.

 

[SaltyCabbage]

Wanted to update this thread with some good news. The mantis has been making a new burrow on the right of the tank (hopefully) using the pvc pipe I buried under the rocks.

I haven’t seen it do the curling behavior since Sunday night and it’s been eating and smashing shells all the same.

Parameters have stayed consistent and I’ve kept the lights at 50% since Monday morning.

I’m hoping the little bugger was trying to molt and didn’t like it’s burrow, as it seems to have calmed down and dig a new one.

Will update the thread if I notice anything new.

Thank you both for the help and reassurance!!

 

[SaltyCabbage]

@vetteguy53081 @TripFamAZ
Hey sorry to tag both of y’all, the little bugger came out of hiding today and seems very angry at its reflection? I’ve attached a YouTube link as I can’t describe it in words lol, violently flashing is the best I got.

Is it possible this whole ordeal was a mixture of stress from molting and being angry at it’s reflection? Am not out of the woods yet but this is new behavior and I want to make sure it looks like an angry mantis and not a dying one.

Video of “violent flashing”



Video right after its meltdown, casually killing a snail like nothing happened.



Thank you both so much for the help and advice, I truly appreciate it!

 

[vetteguy53081]

@vetteguy53081 @TripFamAZ
Hey sorry to tag both of y’all, the little bugger came out of hiding today and seems very angry at its reflection? I’ve attached a YouTube link as I can’t describe it in words lol, violently flashing is the best I got.

Is it possible this whole ordeal was a mixture of stress from molting and being angry at it’s reflection? Am not out of the woods yet but this is new behavior and I want to make sure it looks like an angry mantis and not a dying one.

Video of “violent flashing”



Video right after its meltdown, casually killing a snail like nothing happened.



Thank you both so much for the help and advice, I truly appreciate it!

Yes it is possible and Lowering lights will lower reflection in most cases

 

[Hadla]

“casually killing a snail like nothing happened”

 

[Stomatopods17]

I'm a bit late on this but; my first concern would be stray voltage, if suddenly the pump started and stopped discharging this is what I'd expect to see. It seems like a temporary neurological problem in the first few post, which stray voltage might explain since this wasn't witnessed when first gotten (when those issues usually happen and are serious).

The other and more likely explanation is that this N. wennerae was just very stressed, they typically bore into the rockwork in a cavity and then close it up at night time, its basically in the woods with no cabin or door to be secure. The setup isn't an issue just what its going through being new and all. They're not used to burying under rocks in sand they usually find a pre-made cavity to start themselves out with and continue to expand it for themselves. It doesn't know what to do or where to go so its acting like its in a constant state of defensive curl, hence it swimming a bit and feeling vulnerable curling up.

Just incase doubts about species, and since I didn't see mention of it anywhere, white with black outline merals are N. wennerae. G. viridis would be peach with red streaks, glaborus would be orange merals, and ciliata we can rule out being a spearer. I believe this came from TBS so it'd be more obvious to rule those out given location, but purely from visuals this is how to ID one;

The fact its N. wennerae helps with the behavioral patterns typical of the species, if I saw a G. viridis acting like this I'd be very concerned given that it's a sand flat species, and highly emphasize on the stray voltage/neurological issues, but confirming N. wennerae seeing out in the open definitely sounds normal to act like this, if it had a cavity and closed at night probably not so much it'd likely just dart back in it before displaying this behavior. My S. rugosa acts very weird when going for a stroll as well.

 

[SaltyCabbage]

I'm a bit late on this but; my first concern would be stray voltage, if suddenly the pump started and stopped discharging this is what I'd expect to see. It seems like a temporary neurological problem in the first few post, which stray voltage might explain since this wasn't witnessed when first gotten (when those issues usually happen and are serious).

The other and more likely explanation is that this N. wennerae was just very stressed, they typically bore into the rockwork in a cavity and then close it up at night time, its basically in the woods with no cabin or door to be secure. The setup isn't an issue just what its going through being new and all. They're not used to burying under rocks in sand they usually find a pre-made cavity to start themselves out with and continue to expand it for themselves. It doesn't know what to do or where to go so its acting like its in a constant state of defensive curl, hence it swimming a bit and feeling vulnerable curling up.

Just incase doubts about species, and since I didn't see mention of it anywhere, white with black outline merals are N. wennerae. G. viridis would be peach with red streaks, glaborus would be orange merals, and ciliata we can rule out being a spearer. I believe this came from TBS so it'd be more obvious to rule those out given location, but purely from visuals this is how to ID one;

The fact its N. wennerae helps with the behavioral patterns typical of the species, if I saw a G. viridis acting like this I'd be very concerned given that it's a sand flat species, and highly emphasize on the stray voltage/neurological issues, but confirming N. wennerae seeing out in the open definitely sounds normal to act like this, if it had a cavity and closed at night probably not so much it'd likely just dart back in it before displaying this behavior. My S. rugosa acts very weird when going for a stroll as well.

Thank you for the very detailed response.

I’ll take a close look At the pumps and heater for stray voltage as soon as I’m off work. I don’t know how I didn’t think of voltage thank you for brining this up.


I’m very glad to hear the setup shouldn’t be an issue. I added some pvc under the rocks when setting up the tank but the mantis never found them till this week, after finding the pipe it’s been digging out the back of the tank making a very large burrow.

Hopefully it’s beginning to feel a bit more secure. I’ve kept lights under 50% since Sunday as well, will keep them dim for a while.

I did receive the mantis from TBS and was listed as N. wennerae, thank you for confirming the species!


Your response has definitely eased my concerns a bit. I truly do appreciate the time you took to write me!

I will continue to monitor the little guy and make sure there is no stray voltage and parameters stay consistent.

 

[Stomatopods17]

Lights should be fine, N. wennerae comes from Florida so they're exposed to basically everything. No documents of shell disease on this species either so good there.

They're very tough animals, hence why they're common hitchhikers and survive being shipped in barely any water.

In general its always good to check on stray voltage (I skip checking and just plug in a grounding probe ), its one of those hidden things that affects them you likely won't see mentioned much and can go under the radar.

I heavily lean on its just the defensive curl while exploring, its looking for said cavity and during those searches they run into each other and end up fighting over the cavity, it could be pre-emptively defensive while looking for one and the telson serves as a shield to any other smashers it encounters.

Kinda like this (also N. wenneraes):



The behavior of how the two interact with each other is very similar to what yours is displaying, darting around curled up on the side.

 

[SaltyCabbage]

Lights should be fine, N. wennerae comes from Florida so they're exposed to basically everything. No documents of shell disease on this species either so good there.

They're very tough animals, hence why they're common hitchhikers and survive being shipped in barely any water.

In general its always good to check on stray voltage (I skip checking and just plug in a grounding probe ), its one of those hidden things that affects them you likely won't see mentioned much and can go under the radar.

I heavily lean on its just the defensive curl while exploring, its looking for said cavity and during those searches they run into each other and end up fighting over the cavity, it could be pre-emptively defensive while looking for one and the telson serves as a shield to any other smashers it encounters.

Kinda like this (also N. wenneraes):



The behavior of how the two interact with each other is very similar to what yours is displaying, darting around curled up on the side.

I cannot thank you enough for the help and advice!!

I checked everything electrical and found no stray voltage (used a multimeter)

Water parameters have been consistent, I had my lfs test twice a week as well and everything’s been stable.

After looking at the videos you posted I’m almost positive this is/was a defensive response, I added a black mat on the back of the tank where the mantis burrows and I have not notice any behavior since.

I’m guessing it was seeing its reflection when it wanted to hide and couldn’t get comfortable because of that. Once I added the mat the mantis has been in its burrow much more often and only pokes its head out.

I’m gonna stop worrying and let things ride out from here lol.

Thank you everyone for the help, I truly appreciate it!!