Marine ich or velvet?

[KyleC]

Hey,

Can anyone tell of this is Marine ich or velvet on my pocupine puffer? He sleeps during day and swims about at night. Eats one shrimp or so a day (only got him recently so can't say if his habbits have changed). I'll try and get a better picture.

Currently treating my tank with eSHa OODINEX as I have inverts and some corals.

 

[KyleC]

Also have a blue chromis which looks completely fine.

 

[olonmv]

I’m leaning towards ich but the #fishmedics probably are your better bet for a diagnosis.

 

[KyleC]

It seems to have improved slightly since adding the treatment, granted this is only day 2.

 

[Bucs20fan]

Im not sure which one it would be, but if i had to guess because of the way it is affecting his eyes, it could be one of two things, velvet as you asked, does affect the eyes like a film with dots, or it could be ich, with either a secondary infection of the eyes, being bacterial or neobendenia flukes.

 

[Bucs20fan]

Im not sure what that medication you are treating with is, but this fish for sure needs to be in a qt tank with copper.

 

[sc50964]

Rule of thumb is, it’s velvet if you can’t count how many white dots there are. Fortunately, copper takes care of both. But for a scaleless fish, copper power or coppersafe is the better choice than cupramine, but you need to remove your current med first or move him to a QT.

 

[KyleC]

Im not sure what that medication you are treating with is, but this fish for sure needs to be in a qt tank with copper.

Using eSHa Oodinex - LFS recommended it as I've not got a QT tank yet and have live corals in my DT. On the lookout for a wee 20g tank to use as a QT but for now I wanted to try alleviate the symptoms somehow.

 

[KyleC]

Rule of thumb is, it’s velvet if you can’t count how many white dots there are. Fortunately, copper takes care of both. But for a scaleless fish, copper power or coppersafe is the better choice than cupramine, but you need to remove your current med first or move him to a QT.

Copper is a nogo as I've inverts in my DT from what I hear. Soon as I get a QT tank setup I'll be moving him into it.

 

[Bucs20fan]

Using eSHa Oodinex - LFS recommended it as I've not got a QT tank yet and have live corals in my DT. On the lookout for a wee 20g tank to use as a QT but for now I wanted to try alleviate the symptoms somehow.

While I normally agree with doing something, and something is better than nothing, In this case what I believe to be velvet is now in this tank. Its not going to leave unless you starve it out (fallow period) or kill it (copper). These are really the only two solutions. You cannot kill it, because of your inverts, so this leaves only one solution. Removing all of the fish, placing them in QT for at least 30 days, I recommend frits coppersafe at 2.5ppm in the tank. The tank must remain fishless for a minimum of 60 days, but preferably 76 days. This will starve out any velvet in the DT.

 

[KyleC]

While I normally agree with doing something, and something is better than nothing, In this case what I believe to be velvet is now in this tank. Its not going to leave unless you starve it out (fallow period) or kill it (copper). These are really the only two solutions. You cannot kill it, because of your inverts, so this leaves only one solution. Removing all of the fish, placing them in QT for at least 30 days, I recommend frits coppersafe at 2.5ppm in the tank. The tank must remain fishless for a minimum of 60 days, but preferably 76 days. This will starve out any velvet in the DT.

Thanks for the advice! I wouldn't have known to starve the tank. Luckily I only have a puffer and blue chromis that came with the tank. Puffer to be rehomed (once treated), then hopefully the chromis will survive in a 20g QT for 76 days, just need to research more into setting one up.

Will starfish, inverts and hermits be Ok to leave in the DT while it starves? I assume only actual fish can prolong velvet?

 

[KyleC]

On closer inspection the spots are numerous... so looks like velvet then. It's a wonder the chromis is perfectly healthy (so it seems), as he has pecked at the puffer a few times.

 

[sc50964]

Copper is a nogo as I've inverts in my DT from what I hear. Soon as I get a QT tank setup I'll be moving him into it.

Velvet kills quickly - 2 days so you may need to decide which is more important if you can’t set up a QT fast enough. You may just want to take out all inverts and put them in a 5g bucket that’s aerated and that should be fine as long as it doesn’t get too cold.

 

[sc50964]

Velvet also has more adverse effect on fish if you have the lights on so keep your tank dark if it’s not a reef.

btw, puffers love to eat inverts.

 

[threebuoys]

One method to distinguish between Ich and velvet is to observe the breathing rate of the fish. Velvet always results in very rapid breathing, well over one hundred, often approaching 200 breaths per minute Count the number of breaths taken in a 10 or 15 seconds interval and extrapolate. Provide a short video if you need help.

My guess is the illness is ich. Often, velvet does not appear as spots at all and is determined by other symptoms such as mucus and slime build up in addition to the breathing.

The good news is that copper treats both ich and velvet.

The bad news is, as others indicated, the only viable treatment is in a QT. The DT must remain fallow ( no fish present, but coral and inverts ok) for 6 to 8 weeks.

Puffers can be very sensitive to copper, so you will need to observe carefully. Do NOT ramp up slowly. Get to target concentration within 12 to 24 hours since the infection appears advanced. Copper is not effective until the full dose is achieved.

I agree that Copper Power and Copper safe are your best alternative, but I don't believe these products are available in Great Britain. Cupramine is I believe.

Another option given the sensitivity of the puffers to copper is to use hyposalinity in the QT (drop sg to 1.009 - 1.010). Also for 30 days. If the problem is velvet, this approach may be too slow to combat the parasite. So really try to determine the breath rate

 

[KyleC]

Velvet kills quickly - 2 days so you may need to decide which is more important if you can’t set up a QT fast enough. You may just want to take out all inverts and put them in a 5g bucket that’s aerated and that should be fine as long as it doesn’t get too cold.

I got the tank on Sunday passed, the guy who sold me it had been treating the puffer for ich (although he never said, just stressed I get some ich treatment). I never got a good look at the puffer at the time but I imagine he already showed symptoms. Anyhow, QT is now priority so hopefully get it setup asap!

 

[sc50964]

I got the tank on Sunday passed, the guy who sold me it had been treating the puffer for ich (although he never said, just stressed I get some ich treatment). I never got a good look at the puffer at the time but I imagine he already showed symptoms. Anyhow, QT is now priority so hopefully get it setup asap!

How big is the puffer?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

On closer inspection the spots are numerous... so looks like velvet then. It's a wonder the chromis is perfectly healthy (so it seems), as he has pecked at the puffer a few times.

No, that is later stage ich. With velvet, your first symptom will be rapid breathing and not eating, followed by death about 72 hours. With ich, the fish don't stop eating or start breathing hard until the end of the infection, perhaps a week to 10 days in. It will likely spread to the chromis eventually. Your best bet would be copper or hyposalinity in a treatment tank, but be careful - setting up a treatment tank "on the fly" can be difficult, you need to avoid ammonia problems.

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hey,

Can anyone tell of this is Marine ich or velvet on my pocupine puffer? He sleeps during day and swims about at night. Eats one shrimp or so a day (only got him recently so can't say if his habbits have changed). I'll try and get a better picture.

Currently treating my tank with eSHa OODINEX as I have inverts and some corals.

Agree this is ich and accelerated stage ick. Puffers are one of the challenging with treatment as they are scaleless. The choices you have will be Copper Power at 2.0 therapuetic level at 80 degrees for a FULL 30 days monitored by a reliable copper test kit such as Hanna Brand (no api brand) If no Hanna, you can use Sera brand kit. Assure the medication you use states treats Oodinum. , but safer would be Chloroquine phosphate and safest Hyposalinity bringing it down to 1.009 with heavy aeration. I see you are in Ireland and Copper power should be available. If not avloclor will be safer and effective if you are unsure of use of copper Power.

 

[vetteguy53081]

While I normally agree with doing something, and something is better than nothing, In this case what I believe to be velvet is now in this tank. Its not going to leave unless you starve it out (fallow period) or kill it (copper). These are really the only two solutions. You cannot kill it, because of your inverts, so this leaves only one solution. Removing all of the fish, placing them in QT for at least 30 days, I recommend frits coppersafe at 2.5ppm in the tank. The tank must remain fishless for a minimum of 60 days, but preferably 76 days. This will starve out any velvet in the DT.

2.5 enough to kill this fish and 76 days no longer an industry recommendation. As low as 45 up to 60 days and Not velvet