Max flow rate, 1” Herbie style

[Spitty]

Looking for rough estimate on the max flow rate a single Herbie style overflow with 1” bulkheads is capable of.

 

[Crabs McJones]

A 1" bulkhead I believe has a drain rate of 300-350 gravity fed. If you're pulling it with a full siphon such as the herbie style, I want to say anywhere from 800-1000 gallons per hour depended on setup.

 

[Chuk]

what does your pipe routing look like IE how many and what kind of fittings and what is the elevation drop to your sump? Rough numbers through 10 equivalence feet of pipe (this accounts for a few fittings and 3 ft from the display to the sump you're looking at a max of~900-1,000 gal/hr with an unthrottled valve on the main drain using the hazen williams equation

 

[ispookie666]

For a 1"pipe or 25 mm ID -i just calculated it to 86000LPH, as long as it has laminar flow.
Density of 1035 kg/m3
Viscosity of 1.08 x 10-3 Pa S

That would be the theoretical max.

Add to this any bends, tiny bits of turbulent flow, debris and things start falling off; even after all this - siphon drains can handle large volume of water

 

[Spitty]

Wow, thanks for the very informative replies! I’m in the planning stages of a possible 150 Sca tank and my only experience with overflows is the mega flow system. Sump would be locacated through the wall behind the tank so probably 2 or 3’ drop and a couple of 90’s

 

[Spitty]

I just read to avoid 90s and long horizontal runs, switching to 45s or flexible piper

 

[Crabs McJones]

I just read to avoid 90s and long horizontal runs, switching to 45s or flexible piper

Not sure how it is for siphons and drains, but BRS was able to debunk the flow restriction between 90 degree bends and 45's. There is really no big difference. I have two 90's and a 45 in my herbie overflow plumbing and three 90s in my return plumbing and am still running about 750 gallons per hour no problem.

 

[Spitty]

I would like to ask a few more questions in this thread instead of starting a new one. It does relate to the original post. I have 220 that has 2 overflows with 2 holes in each. When I had the tank operating about ten years ago it was a durso drain system. If I set this tank up again I would like to run the Herbie style drain. The bulkhead holes are 1 1/2 for drainage and 1 inch return in each overflow.
Could I use the Herbie method by having the drains in separate overflows then using the returns as they originally were running? It seems like it should work. Or would you do something different?
Also I have a 75 Gal sump with a 2” bulkhead. I would like to run 2 dc pumps externally. Pump inputs are 1 1/4. Could I come out of the sump 2”,add a tee, reduce, then run the pumps in tandem?
Any thoughts will are appreciated.

 

[Spitty]

Slight correction, drain bulkhead size is 1 1/4” and return is 1”

 

[Crabs McJones]

I would like to ask a few more questions in this thread instead of starting a new one. It does relate to the original post. I have 220 that has 2 overflows with 2 holes in each. When I had the tank operating about ten years ago it was a durso drain system. If I set this tank up again I would like to run the Herbie style drain. The bulkhead holes are 1 1/2 for drainage and 1 inch return in each overflow.
Could I use the Herbie method by having the drains in separate overflows then using the returns as they originally were running? It seems like it should work. Or would you do something different?
Also I have a 75 Gal sump with a 2” bulkhead. I would like to run 2 dc pumps externally. Pump inputs are 1 1/4. Could I come out of the sump 2”,add a tee, reduce, then run the pumps in tandem?
Any thoughts will are appreciated.

Part of the herbie system is to have a primary drain and an emergency drain. If each overflow has two holes, one for drain and one for return, and you're using each drain with a gate valve you don't have your emergency drain. And being that both drains would be gated, if one were to clog or become restricted, the other one wouldn't be able to compensate for the extra flow as its been gated down. If you have the room , i'd drill another hole in each overflow, and add an emergency drain to each overflow. Then you could run a true herbie style with a gated drain, an emergency drain, and your return line.

 

[Spitty]

What if the primary drain is in one overflow box and the emergency is in the other? So just 1 gated.

 

[Crabs McJones]

What if the primary drain is in one overflow box and the emergency is in the other? So just 1 gated.

You could do that but then make sure you are tuning your gallons per hour down to compensate for that as well. Instead of pushing 3,000 gallons through two harbies, you would only push 1500 gallons through one herbie with an emergency (or whatever gallons per hour you're going to choose )

 

[Spitty]

Yah, I was thinking of running 2 dc pumps externally, that way I would be able to dial in the main tank return along with valves, I’d also be able to feed a manifold for future equipment upgrades. I would also have 2 pumps in case of a failure.

 

[Spitty]

I’m wondering now if a single 2” bulkhead leaving the sump would be able to supply an ample amount of water to feed 2 Neptune Cor 20’s? Or equivalent octo’s. Pipe would have to be tee’d, then reduced for pump inlet’s......
I used a reflow super dart gold back when I had my 220 up and running. It did a very good job but was a bit noisy, now I’m older I want a quiet system

 

[Chuk]

A 2” pipe in the suction of a pump should be able to supply something around 10,000 gph

 

[bblumberg]

See http://www.beananimal.com/articles/hydraulics-for-the-aquarist.aspx

 

[Spitty]

I think I found my solution

 

[lmm1967]

I think I found my solution

I'm doing this on a dual overflow 120g - my returns are over the top - I bring them over the top at the same position of the overflows though so I still us loc-line tucked into the overflow notches just like you would if you were using a megaflow.

I have zero idea exactly how much flow I'm currently pushing - but, I can tell you it works perfect, is easy to dial in and stays dialed in with no problems. Balances out very quickly when the return is shut off / turned back on.

I also cut some egg crate (light diffuser) and have it sitting directly on top of the overflow - the only way anything is going to get into my overflow is by making it's way through the slots in the overflow.

 

[Spitty]

I'm doing this on a dual overflow 120g - my returns are over the top - I bring them over the top at the same position of the overflows though so I still us loc-line tucked into the overflow notches just like you would if you were using a megaflow.

I have zero idea exactly how much flow I'm currently pushing - but, I can tell you it works perfect, is easy to dial in and stays dialed in with no problems. Balances out very quickly when the return is shut off / turned back on.

I also cut some egg crate (light diffuser) and have it sitting directly on top of the overflow - the only way anything is going to get into my overflow is by making it's way through the slots in the overflow.

Are you satisfied with the overall performance of the mod concerning flow rate and noise? The only thing I was thinking I might try is to use 2 dc return pumps. Instead of having 1 single return line I would have 2 tied together. Then maybe 3 tees on the rail for lock lines.

 

[Spitty]

My tank is a 210 so I thought a little extra push might come in handy. I'm still in the planning stage so we'll see what I come up with...
So much has changed during the ten years I've been away from the hobby, the equipment possibilities are nearly endless. I've been losing sleep planning my set up....lol