May we please discuss seam breaks in 2-3 yr tanks

[mmorriso]

I think if you were genuinely concerned about the longevity of other reefers tanks you'd be advising against rimless tanks in general.

I know that most custom tank manufacturers in Australia will strongly advise customers against a rimless tank and to instead use a laser cut top brace for a similar clean appearance simply due to the fact that a rimless design is inherently risky for tanks with greater than ~30cm width and depth.

Glass is glass and silicone is silicone and the notion that one manufacturer has found away to change the properties of either is farcical.

I participate in mostly local Australian forums / Facebook groups and there are leaks for other brands besides Red Sea. Waterbox tanks leak also (and they have a lot of bulkhead leaks in addition to seam splits) and Aqua One tanks have had heaps of leaks (Possibly even more worrying in that they don't appear to have ever revised their designs and continue to offer the exact same products).

To me, this thread now seems anti-Red Sea as opposed to pro-reefer.

Or maybe you own a vase company and are trying to capture the lucrative reef keeping market...

 

[Cell]

While you may be correct about rimless tank risks, why should Innovative Marine get blamed for all the Red Sea failures?

If this forum was flooded with seam failures from a different particular brand, then that brand would also be spotlighted.

 

[Cell]

Pointing out someone's lack of special interest in a topic strengthen's their position, not weakens. Lack of bias is good.

 

[brandon429]

I have hundreds of online friends i did cycle jobs and tank transfers for using rimless, so no, I wouldn't advise that.

Only red sea has this pattern

Cell may good fortune come your way. A winning lottery ticket for starters

 

[brandon429]

Secondary pattern: easy to tell who owns red sea tanks in this thread even if not mentioned up front

It's the manifestation of deep internal worry, anger about this thread, but i wish it wasn't that way. I wish owning red sea didn't equate to worry + defense mode

I would rather be doing cycle and tank transfer pattern work. My friends need a warning about this new trend.

I don't think all red sea owners will get a split, just enough to keep this thread going=~2%

 

[mmorriso]

It's the manifestation of deep internal worry, anger about this thread, but i wish it wasn't that way. I wish owning red sea didn't equate to worry + defense mode

I can see that you’re quite the polymath!

Your knowledge of psychology is at least the equal of your facility with material sciences…

 

[brandon429]

 

[mmorriso]

My very first post in this thread was stating that I am a Red Sea tank owner and describing my actual experience with a tank replacemet.

I also have my build thread linked right there on my profile, in which I also describe my tank replacement.

I’ve obviously done a terrible job of concealing my true identity as Red Seas Head of Customer Relations!

Perhaps my concern you’re taking this personally is a manifestation of my deep internal worry…

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

My very first post in this thread was stating that I am a Red Sea tank owner and describing my actual experience with a tank replacemet.

I also have my build thread linked right there on my profile, in which I also describe my tank replacement.

I’ve obviously done a terrible job of concealing my true identity as Red Seas Head of Customer Relations!

Perhaps my concern you’re taking this personally is a manifestation of my deep internal worry…

But do you own a flower vase?

 

[mmorriso]

But do you own a flower vase?

The truth is, I lost my parents in a horrific flower vase accident and since then have had an irrational hatred of flower vases and flower vase advocates.

When I heard there was a thread created by someone advocating reefers ditch their rimless tanks and instead house their naso tangs in flower vases, I knew I had to act!

 

[brandon429]

I have tried to be fair to red sea. I posted examples where they did great follow up service, I'm willing to post anything positive and relevant we want to know, so are you guys

It's not fair to try and make the thread go away or be locked down, I simply wanted to collect any new break examples since the end of April and it's as simple as that. I didn't Google up the last five years of breaks- which there are in stark pattern- merely taking new ones and collating them here is totally fair. If my cycle threads or tank transfer jobs started to fail in pattern nobody would hesitate to group my fails, truly I'm scrutinizing them in the way I'm ready to be scrutinized just the same.

I can't think of any fairer way to be able to collect the data i see trending. I started beef with 0 people on this thread: the opening title + post is to red sea, not anyone reading nor posting here I'm being friendly and fair in very tough subject material in my opinion. If we'd met outside the context of this thread, and red sea's problem design, I'm sure we'd be getting along nicely because your new reef sure does look nice and is well designed.

Somehow, a few people have taken the liberty to take a thread I wrote to red sea and try and jeer+troll+pick fights, it's not something I do to anyone's thread in my entire searchable post history: I don't ruin other people's work threads. My violation on the site comes from the nuisance algae forum where I offered too many rip cleans to algae wrecked tank owners... I've since tamped that down to a dwindling 10 per week vs 100 heh. Even the intent there was just to collect even more fixed tank pictures, it wasn't like I'm being paid for the work- am trying to address the pattern of algae helplessness and hone the practice via feedback from proxy work done

 

[mmorriso]

I have tried to be fair to red sea. I posted examples where they did great follow up service, I'm willing to post anything positive and relevant we want to know, so are you guys

It's not fair to try and make the thread go away or be locked down, I simply wanted to collect any new break examples since the end of April and it's as simple as that. I didn't Google up the last five years of breaks- which there are in stark pattern- merely taking new ones and collating them here is totally fair. If my cycle threads or tank transfer jobs started to fail in pattern nobody would hesitate to group my fails, truly I'm scrutinizing them in the way I'm ready to be scrutinized just the same.

I can't think of any fairer way to be able to collect the data i see trending. I started beef with 0 people on this thread: the opening title + post is to red sea, not anyone reading nor posting here I'm being friendly and fair in very tough subject material in my opinion. If we'd met outside the context of this thread, and red sea's problem design, I'm sure we'd be getting along nicely because your new reef sure does look nice and is well designed.

OK. My very first post in this thread was about an actual Red Sea tank replacement. I'm also the only person in this thread to actually document the difference between different versions of Red Sea tanks as I have actually had them.

As an actual engineer, I thought it would also be valuable for me to point out that rimless tanks, regardless of brand, are less resilient than top-braced tanks. From this thread, a prospective tank owner could get the impression that only Red Sea brand rimless tanks could have seam splits when in actual fact, every rimless tank with height and depth of greater than about 30cm is going to be vulnerable to this issue to some extent unless it's made of glass thicker than about 18mm which comes at significant cost.

It is a risk vs reward decision that all tank owners should be aware of and giving the impression that only Red Sea rimless tanks are vulnerable is bad advice. All rimless tanks of large volumes are vulnerable, including Red Sea rimless tanks.

In return for my contribution, which was clearly not being defensive of Red Sea given I was documenting actual issues and design changes you have:

- Implied that I am deeply worried and/or have deep seated anger about my fish tank ownership, when in fact, I'm perfectly happy with my fish tank and resent being told I have negative emotional issues related to it

- Implied that I am dishonest or acting in bad faith by somehow failing to disclose my ownership of Red Sea products despite the fact that it was literally the first thing I said in this thread.

To me, the above would qualify as "starting beef" with someone. You took the time to search out my post history and targeted me as an individual rather than my ideas and information I shared. That is a personal attack, and it was unjustified to boot given that my involvement in this thread started with the words "I previously owned a Red Sea..." and made clear that I still own a Red Sea tank, so I was demonstrably not concealing anything!

I have never made any personal comments about you besides a clearly tongue in cheek comment about you being a flower vase magnate.

 

[Reefer1978]

Guys any thoughts on this? Glass is clean, picture was taken right after wiping the glass above the doors.

 

[mmorriso]

Guys any thoughts on this? Glass is clean, picture was taken right after wiping the glass above the door

You should contact Red Sea and ask, there is an issue with sagging that could cause seam separation in the centre of the tank. If I recall correctly they shipped some people the V3 centre strut.

 

[Reefer1978]

You should contact Red Sea and ask, there is an issue with sagging that could cause seam separation in the centre of the tank. If I recall correctly they shipped some people the V3 centre strut.

This is a Waterbox tank

 

[flashsmith]

 

[anthonymckay]

*sigh* Add mine to the pile... XL300 with failures starting in two spots along the front glass. Put in an order for a waterbox 230.6 this weekend. Trying to figure out what to do with my tank in the meantime.

 

[TerraFerma]

I think if you were genuinely concerned about the longevity of other reefers tanks you'd be advising against rimless tanks in general.

I know that most custom tank manufacturers in Australia will strongly advise customers against a rimless tank and to instead use a laser cut top brace for a similar clean appearance simply due to the fact that a rimless design is inherently risky for tanks with greater than ~30cm width and depth.

Glass is glass and silicone is silicone and the notion that one manufacturer has found away to change the properties of either is farcical.

I participate in mostly local Australian forums / Facebook groups and there are leaks for other brands besides Red Sea. Waterbox tanks leak also (and they have a lot of bulkhead leaks in addition to seam splits) and Aqua One tanks have had heaps of leaks (Possibly even more worrying in that they don't appear to have ever revised their designs and continue to offer the exact same products).

To me, this thread now seems anti-Red Sea as opposed to pro-reefer.

Or maybe you own a vase company and are trying to capture the lucrative reef keeping market...

This guy nailed it. ELOS were the first to bring mainstream rimless tanks to the US. And they had...issues. At the time everyone was clamoring over pics of rimless tanks in Japan. However if you look back on those pics - those tanks had a waterline like 6" below the top of the glass.


Petco glass aquariums terrify me. But there are Petco gallon per dollar tanks still going strong 10 years on. Perhaps the problem with larger rimless tanks is not so much the manufacturer but the design concept.

 

[brandon429]

@anthonymckay thank you for adding your issue to our pattern post collection, I hate that you had to join. There are going to be hundreds and potentially thousands of these popping up now from that 2-3 yr lot that we will never see, our thread is only a fraction collection from those who are in the forums and see the threads in action.

challenge for readers: nobody gets mad at the future additions nor discussion of legitimate seam breaks, simply watch the thread grow without ire. If you’re a lucky owner of a non seam split Red Sea (currently) then don’t project an irate attitude onto us for discussing the matter, simply don’t show up in the thread until you unfortunately have to

mmorriso

if you used engineers math or calculus to design a preemptive save that prevents people from having to enter here, that’d be the most relevant form of participation we could hope for from a non split Red Sea tank owner. Figure out a preemptive move people can do to shore up their tanks before they split, apply it to your tank, and post that helpful action. That would be a positive helpful thing to write and it would put engineer skills to best use

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

RIP - Silicone Failure on RedSea 300XL my first "fancy" tank :(

2 years and 5 months young....RIP. Did not enjoy the stress and work day missed. My poor fish and floors.... Wish I had known about how poorly RedSea's reputation was when it came to seal failures. So much worse than dealing with the Texas Freeze as at least that didn't nuke a $1700 tank...

www.reef2reef.com