Mc. Cain VP choice. what do you think?

[rackyrane]

Well spoken, Reef Goddess. Couldn't have said it better myself.
I do not think that people are voting for Obama because he is "the black guy" and they want "a black president". Not to step on any toes, but that is insulting. I don't know anyone who is voting for him because he is "black". I know alot of people who are voting for him because of what he stands for.

I can not vote for McSame. I have listened to him carefully and he has no new ideas. He has not said anything concrete about his plans. Instead, he has spent his time name calling ("celebrity", "messiah") and calling for drilling which as Reef Goddess stated is not going to help in the short term. Now, he has come up with Palin who is under investigation for corruption.
Let's just take a look of some of the alleged things about this person.
1. She has made several line items vetos including vetoing legislation that would have helped teen mothers.
2. She was for the bridge to nowhere and then was against it.
3. She tried to get her ex-brother in law fired.
4. She is rabidly anti-choice.
5. When she left the Mayors office of Wasilla, Alaska, the town was in debt. There's only around 9000 people in that town.
6. She hired a high powered lobbiest to try and get $25 million in earmarks for Wasilla, but now says she's against lobbiests.
7. Her husband was in a group that espoused secession from the US. She attended a couple of meetings, but supposedly was not in that group.

I could go on, but my blood pressure is going up thinking that this woman could be the president if McCain dies. Yes, there will people around her, but do you want this woman taking that 3 AM call? I don't. Do you want her legislating what you think and do, because if she accidentally became prez, she may be the one to select the supreme court justices.
This woman wants creationism taught in the schools. Everyone is allowed their opinion, but the American educational system is lagging behind many other developed nations. We need to make sure that our education is up to at least world standards.

I am a woman and will not support this candidate or her running mate. She/he are wrong on to many issues. And no, Obama is not perfect and I have many doubts and misgivings about him. However, I feel/hope that he will try to get some relief for those of us who work for a living and don't rely on our inheritance or daddy's money. I hope that he will make good on his promises to help the environment and decrease our dependence on foreign oil. I wish that we had another viable candidate to look at, but we are stuck with these two guys. I pray that the right one gets in office, because we can't afford another 4 years that are just like the last 8.

Sorry about the long winded rant, but like Reef Goddess, this topic is just too important for me to just read and not post in.

Ok, bring the bashing on! :)

 

[Reef Goddess]

And then there were two. hehehe


Here's an interesting article that I discovered while trying to find a non-partisan bio on Palin.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-earmarks3-2008sep03,0,6851593.story


Good bio-type read, I'm not focusing on the negative parts as it has other positive parts. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121746477267499109.html?mod=googlenews_wsj


More stuff: http://www.adn.com/sarahpalin/story/511471.html


So not all bad stuff on Palin, even if I don't agree with all her views. She doesn't have as much experience as Biden and if I were a republican I'd probably want someone with more experience, but I can see why McCain picked her to match his "grass-roots" image.


However if you actually read the bio on Obama you'll see that the Repub's claims that he has no experience and that he hasn't personally passed any legislation are false. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama,_Sr.


I haven't had time to read McCain's bio yet, I'll save it for tomorrow. Like with any election, if you really care about it, seek out articles that have the facts not stuff written by people that favor one party over the other.


M&M

 

[chuck22689]

hello i just want to say this i dont agree with every view of either candate but i do know quite a few people in my area that plan to vote for obama because he is black. which i find both ignorant and racist. but then again i think tommy lee said it best indivuals are smart but people are stupid. im also tired of hearing dems say that the south is running our country i think their just mad because when they switched parties they lost a major support base here. it wasnt to long ago that the south would never have voted for a republican or has everyone forgoton it was called the democratic south.

 

[chappy]

Well, I'm a woman and I'm not, not voting for McCain & CO just because of abortion. I'm not voting for him because I don't want a third term of a Bush puppet who will flip-flop all over the place and do whatever big oil and corporations want him to do.

Right now in FL they are talking about lifting the oil drilling ban on our coasts because some legislators think that that will reduce our dependence on foreign oil, what a joke. We don't need to drill more wells or build more nuclear plants in order to reduce our dependence on foreign oil; we need to start seriously looking into other sources of energy, stop driving hummers like we're going to go through the outback somewhere, increase fuel efficieny, stop creating so much waste, and stop giving huge tax breaks to oil companies. These are things that we can do now that we will see a much faster return on then just drilling more.
Tons of experts across the board have said that it will take at least 15 years to see any returns on new oil wells. Do you actually think that in 15 years there will be the same amount of vehicles in the U.S. as there are now, so those new wells will be able to supply all our needs as a country?

Now McCain's VP loves big oil, sued the Bush Admin for placing the polar bear on the endangered species act because it gets in the way of drilling for oil in Alaska, is so anti-abortion that she doesn't even think **** victims should be allowed to have an abortion, is about as conservative as possible, etc, etc, etc. There is no way in hell they'll get my vote.

Even if Obama isn't that experienced at least it would be a change whereas McCain will just give us another 4 years of the same old **** and will probably conveniently croak before his term is up so they can put someone like his VP in place.
If you think that our country is honestly better off after 8 years of the Bush administration you're either a die hard republican or you work for Haliburton/Blackwater. Even one of my customers that's a hardcore republican and has supported Bush throughout his term, admitted to me this year that he no longer has faith in this administration and thinks we should get out of Iraq. This is a good old boy guy, that drinks hard, likes big guns, and goes to hunt elk a couple times per year; not someone you could classify as a liberal.

I do agree that our "democracy" has definitely become skewed and isn't nearly as democratic as it could be, but most americans are so apathetic that they won't write their legislators or get out there and vote. So how can we complain that the system needs change if we don't try and do anything about it?

I realize that this will just add more fuel to the fire on this thread, but I refuse to remain silent on such an important issue. Heaven forbid I vote for someone on one issue, when there are so many reasons why I won't vote for someone.

lol experts on oil let me fix that for you
liberal experts bought by the solar lobbyist have said it will take 15 years
that last statement is such a line of crap
i have owned stocks of tiny start up oil companies that can get oil out of start up wells in less than 5years
it breaks my heart the democrats have gone from being in the pocket of big labor lobbyist to enviornmental lobbyist
we can drill our way out of ths problem and we can use nuke power to generate energy
switch our power to nuclear our vehicles to nat gas and drill our own crude for the million other products made from oil

 

[chuck22689]

i agree with you chappy we need to use our own resources while we switch to alternatives. and someone needs to point out to the enviromentalist that while we may not be drilling off of our coast cuba is allowing china to do it as we type here. why allow a foreign nation to benefit from our supply.

 

[Reef Goddess]

How is Cuba's supply our supply? If we didn't have such crazy trade embargoes against Cuba I'm sure we could take advantage of that oil too. lol

 

[ecotoxlady]

Well, I'm a woman and I'm not, not voting for McCain & CO just because of abortion. I'm not voting for him because I don't want a third term of a Bush puppet who will flip-flop all over the place and do whatever big oil and corporations want him to do.

Right now in FL they are talking about lifting the oil drilling ban on our coasts because some legislators think that that will reduce our dependence on foreign oil, what a joke. We don't need to drill more wells or build more nuclear plants in order to reduce our dependence on foreign oil; we need to start seriously looking into other sources of energy, stop driving hummers like we're going to go through the outback somewhere, increase fuel efficieny, stop creating so much waste, and stop giving huge tax breaks to oil companies. These are things that we can do now that we will see a much faster return on then just drilling more.
Tons of experts across the board have said that it will take at least 15 years to see any returns on new oil wells. Do you actually think that in 15 years there will be the same amount of vehicles in the U.S. as there are now, so those new wells will be able to supply all our needs as a country?

Now McCain's VP loves big oil, sued the Bush Admin for placing the polar bear on the endangered species act because it gets in the way of drilling for oil in Alaska, is so anti-abortion that she doesn't even think **** victims should be allowed to have an abortion, is about as conservative as possible, etc, etc, etc. There is no way in hell they'll get my vote.

Even if Obama isn't that experienced at least it would be a change whereas McCain will just give us another 4 years of the same old **** and will probably conveniently croak before his term is up so they can put someone like his VP in place.
If you think that our country is honestly better off after 8 years of the Bush administration you're either a die hard republican or you work for Haliburton/Blackwater. Even one of my customers that's a hardcore republican and has supported Bush throughout his term, admitted to me this year that he no longer has faith in this administration and thinks we should get out of Iraq. This is a good old boy guy, that drinks hard, likes big guns, and goes to hunt elk a couple times per year; not someone you could classify as a liberal.

I do agree that our "democracy" has definitely become skewed and isn't nearly as democratic as it could be, but most americans are so apathetic that they won't write their legislators or get out there and vote. So how can we complain that the system needs change if we don't try and do anything about it?

I realize that this will just add more fuel to the fire on this thread, but I refuse to remain silent on such an important issue. Heaven forbid I vote for someone on one issue, when there are so many reasons why I won't vote for someone.

AMEN!!! I am not a single issue voter but the environment is one of my highest priorities. McCain actually talked about how wasteful a research project was on the grizzly bear population (which in my mind shows he couldn't give a crap about wildlife other than the kind that can decorate his walls) and his VP running mate scares the cr@p out of me with her pro-oil drilling views and anti-abortion stance. I in no way believe that Obama is perfect but he certainly seems the lesser of two evils.

 

[reef-lover]

Whoever Wins, We All Lose!!!

 

[reef-nut]

Thats not her in the 2nd pic. Different ears, hair color and even looks younger in 2nd pic.

 

[turbois300]

I'm not voting ..............but she is definatly an attractive lady!!!!!! All politics aside.

 

[Reef Pets]

I must ask since it has come up several times in this thread..... Whats wrong with offshore drilling? I would give more jobs to the US people, more crude for the US people and possibly help our economy in the long run. Its not like we can see the oil rigs from our front yard, its not an eye sore! People state, well it will take upto 15 years to see a difference that offshore drill would make. I dont know about you guys but in 15 years I still plan on being around... Also, in 15 years it may make a difference on how the economy is for our children that we now have.
No one complains when they have to have a water well drilled in there back yard for water supply to there home. Many rural areas along with the states that are close to sea level have to do this. I guess I dont see what the harm is for the US to help supply oil to its people.

In this day in age too many women use abortion as a source of birth control. I dont believe that women should have to have a baby if they were *****. I dont know about everyone on this thread but in my life s**t happens. I think women should have a choice if they want the baby or not. Thousands of women get pregnant while on birth control. If they are on birth control it probably means that they do not want a child. I believe in this case that abortion should be an option. I feel that it is better not to have a child than to have a child that is not wanted. Many children that are not wanted get abused and or mistreated, millions per day!!! I dont know about you, but that does not sound like much of a life to me...... Just my .02

 

[Reef Pets]

Thats not her in the 2nd pic. Different ears, hair color and even looks younger in 2nd pic.

I believe that is a picture of her when she was much younger.

 

[robharold]

Well, I'm a woman and I'm not, not voting for McCain & CO just because of abortion. I'm not voting for him because I don't want a third term of a Bush puppet who will flip-flop all over the place and do whatever big oil and corporations want him to do.

Right now in FL they are talking about lifting the oil drilling ban on our coasts because some legislators think that that will reduce our dependence on foreign oil, what a joke. We don't need to drill more wells or build more nuclear plants in order to reduce our dependence on foreign oil; we need to start seriously looking into other sources of energy, stop driving hummers like we're going to go through the outback somewhere, increase fuel efficieny, stop creating so much waste, and stop giving huge tax breaks to oil companies. These are things that we can do now that we will see a much faster return on then just drilling more.
Tons of experts across the board have said that it will take at least 15 years to see any returns on new oil wells. Do you actually think that in 15 years there will be the same amount of vehicles in the U.S. as there are now, so those new wells will be able to supply all our needs as a country?

Now McCain's VP loves big oil, sued the Bush Admin for placing the polar bear on the endangered species act because it gets in the way of drilling for oil in Alaska, is so anti-abortion that she doesn't even think **** victims should be allowed to have an abortion, is about as conservative as possible, etc, etc, etc. There is no way in hell they'll get my vote.

Even if Obama isn't that experienced at least it would be a change whereas McCain will just give us another 4 years of the same old **** and will probably conveniently croak before his term is up so they can put someone like his VP in place.
If you think that our country is honestly better off after 8 years of the Bush administration you're either a die hard republican or you work for Haliburton/Blackwater. Even one of my customers that's a hardcore republican and has supported Bush throughout his term, admitted to me this year that he no longer has faith in this administration and thinks we should get out of Iraq. This is a good old boy guy, that drinks hard, likes big guns, and goes to hunt elk a couple times per year; not someone you could classify as a liberal.

I do agree that our "democracy" has definitely become skewed and isn't nearly as democratic as it could be, but most americans are so apathetic that they won't write their legislators or get out there and vote. So how can we complain that the system needs change if we don't try and do anything about it?

I realize that this will just add more fuel to the fire on this thread, but I refuse to remain silent on such an important issue. Heaven forbid I vote for someone on one issue, when there are so many reasons why I won't vote for someone.

Where to begin where to begin????

First off, go back and read. Bush and McCain HATE each other. McCain voted against most all of President Bush's initiatives.

ABORTION=Murder Period. It kills a beating heart. We need to quit worrying about this issue and focus on more pressing ones like Illegal immigration and the HUGE sucking sound from the south. Both Dems and Pubs want them. Big Business wants the cheap labor, and Dems want the votes through giving them everything under the sun.

OIL - We NEED oil right now. There is not technology to replace it at the present. I am not willing to keep cowtowing to foreign haters. If People want to drive SUV's they SHOULD have that choice as well. Florida's Coast is no more precious than Louisiana's and we drill all over the place. NO MAJOR spills off the coast for as long as I can remember. Even the big spill in the Mississippi River was cleaned with no big impacts. And, it will not take 15 years to see an impact, the "prospectors"(wrong term but can't think of the right one" dropped prices right away as soon as Bush dropped the ban. Imagine what would happen if we actually had the Balls to go ahead and start drilling?

CHANGE? What will Obama Change? He has not said one thing he will change? EXCEPT Taxes. He is defiantely going to change those FOR THE WORSE. And don't give me that "only the Rich" B.S. HE IS RICH and won't pay a dime more. The LIBS beleive that anyone "working hard" making around oh $50,000 a year. They will DOUBLE the currne ttax rate on everyone above that line. REEFGODDESS, How much do you make a year? You willing to pay half of that in taxes? Obama will not bring the kind of change we need. Neither will McCain, but at least he won't break us.

I am very Conservative and I am not happy with President Bush anymore either. However, most of why I am unhappy is because he QUIT being CONSERVATIVE. As have most repubs.

The States need to stand up and reclaim their power and our Reps, and Sens need to start worrying about us instead of Big Corporations.

RACE - should not really be an issue because Obama is Half white. Wtch him when he is not on a teleprompter...He can't speak.

 

[AlexStinson]

Rob... I like you :)

And we have TONS of oil here, I think the solution is to push oil shales... estimated a 1.8trillion barrels (78% of the worlds supply) right in our backyards...
Just 2 cents from a humble, red-blooded, geologist

And yes anything that delibrately stops the beating heart of a human, is murder. If you don't want a baby, use contraceptive or don't have sex.

 

[Reef Goddess]

Well I watched Palin last night and she was definitely on a teleprompter. If Obama had a teleprompter when he was at the stadium they kept it well hidden.

I'm not interested in getting into an argument on this forum because its laid back and I want to keep it that way. You are very firm in your beliefs and I won't try to change that because I'm pretty sure I can't. However, I have been to LA a few times and it is extremely polluted because it is one of the poorest states in the union (even before the hurricanes), so of course you guys let oil companies drill all over the place and don't care. The oil spill of 400,000 gallons in the Mississippi river is no small matter, but I understand sometimes these things happen.
But both states are very lax on pollution compared to other states. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9A03E3DD1039F93BA15752C1A964948260

Florida is not perfect as a state, but we have clean beaches and the water is safe to swim in. LA has so many rigs along the coast, you can easily see them from shore. It may be easy to say you don't have to see them if you live in Ohio, but that's not the case where I live. The majority of FL's money comes from tourism. Installing a few wells sure wouldn't give us them same kind of revenue as tourism does.

Whats wrong with developing cleaner forms of energy such as wind power and water turbines? The only reason our country is stuck in the past not wanting to move out of fossil fuels is because the oil companies make so much money off of us, the last thing they would want is for us to become independent from fossil fuels.

Also, we live in a global community. We will never be independent from that or its oil because that is what makes the world go round. Just like if Mexico decided it no longer wanted to buy products from the U.S. anymore, it wouldn't happen. Too many people depend on jobs that are created in the global market. Europe has been paying way more than we do for gas for decades now, but all the sudden when it costs over $100 to fill our hummers up we start whining.

Did you know that during the oil crisis in the 70's car mileage rose to 21 mpg. Since then with all of our technology vehicle mpg has actually gone down because no one has demanded that car makers raise it. We are all happy to drive huge vehicles that consume tons of gas and only now that the prices have gone up in the last two years have we started to complain and conserve gas. Gas prices have gone up because we're not the only country in the world now that has high demand, India and China are also taking up a big part. So instead of drilling, why can't we make cars that get better gas mileage or have more effective public transportation. Ah yes, because we're Americans and we should be able to pollute and use the environment as much as we want because its our country.

I'm not an ultra liberal tree hugger, but if I care so much about the creatures I keep in my reef tanks and the perfect environment I try to establish than why should I be so selfish not to care about the rest of the world and what we're doing to it? Whether global warming is real or not, there are other very real problems that are occuring in our environment that we as humans are responsible for. I don't want my tanks to be a living museum in a few decades like I fear could happen. There are growing dead zones in the waters all over the world and areas where fishieres are collapsing due to over-fishing. Many species of animanls are being pushed to the brink of extinction by humans over harvesting or destroying their habitat. If you are comfortable with this fine. But if you care very much about your personal reef and keeping your animals happy, how can you be a hypocrite and say its fine to let oil companies drill wherever they want or we should be able to drive whatever vehicle we want and use all the gas we want, because i'm sure that won't increase pollution.

Good reading in case you have your head in the ground. These are real problems not made up by "liberals".

http://serc.carleton.edu/microbelife/topics/deadzone/
http://science.howstuffworks.com/great-pacific-garbage-patch.htm
http://www.politickernj.com/vitale-...torium-preserve-endangered-red-knots-advances
http://www.slate.com/id/2082997/
http://www.un.org/events/tenstories/06/story.asp?storyID=800
http://www.southchinasea.org/miranda/index.html
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/farewell-docile-creature-caribbean-monk-seal-declared-extinct.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6063344.stm
http://worldfrontpage.com/moscow_air/
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/22/magazine/22Plastics-t.html


Immigration is a tough problem. I would know, my husband is Dominican, he has gone through the very long and costly process of becoming a U.S. citizen. I don't think people should just be able to jump over the border and become citizens, but at the same time nearly all "americans" came from somewhere else so who are we to judge someone else's plight? I hope none of "them" are reading this thread. I assume you're native american right?

 

[Poseidon]

The LIBS beleive that anyone "working hard" making around oh $50,000 a year. They will DOUBLE the currne ttax rate on everyone above that line. REEFGODDESS, How much do you make a year? You willing to pay half of that in taxes? Obama will not bring the kind of change we need. Neither will McCain, but at least he won't break us.

I will share my experience and income figures, and then maybe we can all look at taxes objectively.

I work 2 jobs, one is a "regular" full time job with health care, the other is my photography business. Total between the 2 jobs I make very close to 50,000 per year. My wife is a stay at home Mom to care for our 2 kids, this decision was made to avoid the cost of daycare, and to best raise our kids. We moved into a suburb this January in order to get my kids into the best schools possible, this means the cost of housing is high, VERY high, $900/month. Power and gas (heat) is an average of $200/month, I drive older cars, so I have no car payment, but I still have to pay care insurance, $150/month. Groceries, gasoline, and money for my lunch, all have to come out of what we have left over.... We are BARELY keeping our heads above the water so to speak, and I am supposed to believe that I am "Middle Class" under McCain's idea? No freakin' WAY!!!

I know that Obama will raise taxes, I know that McCain wants to cut taxes, but here is the thing, Obama wants to raise taxes on those that make 250K plus, and McCain wants to cut them on those that make 5 million +, well I don't fit into either of those do I?

I do KNOW that things were BETTER with Slick Willy in the oval office then they have been in the last 8, and W sounds like a BAFOON every time he opens his mouth. I am willing to take a risk on the INEXPERIENCE of Obama over the out of touch with reality the McCain seems to live in. I'm sorry, but if ANY of us were asked "how many homes do you own?" I am pretty sure that we ALL could answer that without any hesitation right? Well McCain can't.... What reality is he living in? Certainly not mine, I have ONE home, and I am barely holding on to it, he has SEVEN, and didn't even know that!

Then McCain chooses a running mate that espouses right to life, and jsut about preaches abstinence, yet has a pregnant 17 year old daughter. There are LITERALLY THOUSANDS of young ladies that are pregnant every year at 17, and I am OK with that, I feel for those young ladies as they have an incredibly tough road ahead of them. However how can I trust the VP if she can't even get her Daughter to follow her example? How serious is Palin going to be about developing ALTERNATE energy when her husband works for BP?

As for drilling, sure, we can drill the shale in Montana, or North Dakota, or even off shore, but that still does NOT rid of us of dependence on FOREIGN oil. We need cars that get more MPG, AND we need cars that run on batteries, or H2, or some other fuel, methanol, ethanol, heck it could be veggie oil for all I care, but we have to stop sending our cash out of the country. We also have to stop giving big oil tax breaks when they make profits of hundreds of BILLIONS in 3 months!!!!

Our auto industry is in shambles, we send more money and jobs out of the country every day, and we are continually shooting our proverbial foot off, if we don't change something, then we will reduced to the haves and have nots well before my kids have kids.... I don't want that, so I will risk the short term for a new face, a new attitude, and MAYBE just maybe, we as a country can get some self respect back, and become the leaders in technology and industry again.

 

[Dr. Frag]

Mccain wont live more than a year or so, that means Palin ( kind of hot ) will take office in a few years. Lots of hilary clinton voters are voting for Mccain now, thats clear.

 

[Reef Pets]

Mccain wont live more than a year or so, that means Palin ( kind of hot ) will take office in a few years. Lots of hilary clinton voters are voting for Mccain now, thats clear.

A year or so? I realize that he is old but to live a year or two?? I would agree if he had a terminal illness, but that is not the case. The american life expectancy is 78 and on the rise. My grandmother is 81 and my grandfather is 87. They still live on there own and easly care for themselves. Of course this is not the case for everyone this age but to say that he is unable to carry out his term as a president is not realistic in my opinion..... McCain is 72 and seems to be in good health.

 

[rdvab]

ok I know we are all of upper inteligence here ,so what really keeps me puzzled is how many people seem to think the president is in complete control(and not congress) and believe the oil companies set the oil price...the oil co's don't set the price ,the stock market(the people) do.The president cannot change policy without a vote from congress.
If people offer $100+ for a bbl of oil what are they supposed to say,"no thats all right just give us $50.I don't think so.

Other issues here should be addressed here but I think my views would really start a blaze here from what I am reading from this.So ,ramble on my fellow americans(but murder is murder)

 

[Reef Goddess]

Which is worse, murdering an unborn fetus or abusing and murdering a child born to incapable parents? How many people suffer their lifetimes from being raised in super disfunctional famlies instead of being born to people that actually care about them. So many times my Mom has said her parents should never have had children and I've seen in person the emotional struggles she's had to overcome in order to lead a normal life.

Better to have a choice instead of treating a child like a mistake and resent them for it.