Metal Halide vs. LED Rates of Photosynthesis

[RedoubtReef]

Actually - the issue is an issue when people chuck them (LED fixtures) in the trash - and then the bulbs are crushed. So - I would suggest - like you would with a computer, or phone or etc etc - LED's should be disposed of properly (I'm sure you agree).

But come on - one of the articles said 'a child might think a Christmas light is a piece of candy'.

I do agree. I just don't think there is a moral high horse here.

 

[MnFish1]

I do agree. I just don't think there is a moral high horse here.

There is a science high horse though right? BTW - I'm sorry - this doesnt really have anything to do with the topic - which is the experiment - but as usual - everytime someone discusses this - it becomes a debate about which is better. IMHO - from a science perspective - having nothing to do with the original topic and I wish Dana would weigh in - but understand he is not as active on the site) - metal halides and fluorescent bulbs are more 'damaging' to the environment - than LED's. All of them should be properly disposed of - IMHO though - which was my point

 

[Shooter6]

What's good enough for the coral farms is good enough for me (Leds)...when you take into consideration the drawbacks of MHs, LEDs look pretty good imo...

Ive already post in other threads videos where the coral farmers , some , not all, so not making a broad statement, yse both led and mh/ t5.

In those vids the farmers all say mh for speed of growth. T5 and led for intense color.
I am posting this not to prove you wrong but to help others who may read your comment and believe that's definitive.

 

[Shooter6]

There is a science high horse though right? BTW - I'm sorry - this doesnt really have anything to do with the topic - which is the experiment - but as usual - everytime someone discusses this - it becomes a debate about which is better. IMHO - from a science perspective - having nothing to do with the original topic and I wish Dana would weigh in - but understand he is not as active on the site) - metal halides and fluorescent bulbs are more 'damaging' to the environment - than LED's. All of them should be properly disposed of - IMHO though - which was my point

Something being overlooked, it's not just the led diodes when leds are thrown away. It's the entire light fixture,with the circuit boards, wiring, ect. Think about all the different components that make up those boards and the metals and other toxic elements they contain. Also the production of all those individual parts should be factored in as well. Since most are produced in countries with lax environmental protection laws the increase is substantial. Strip mining for the copper ect.

Off topic but have you ever looked into the production of lithium car batteries? Lithium is strip mined ,the refinement produces countless hazardous waste. The veil of environmental consciousness is blinding.

 

[djf91]

Ive already post in other threads videos where the coral farmers , some , not all, so not making a broad statement, yse both led and mh/ t5.

In those vids the farmers all say mh for speed of growth. T5 and led for intense color.
I am posting this not to prove you wrong but to help others who may read your comment and believe that's definitive.

Last I saw Top Shelf Aquatics was still using 400 watt Radium MH to do their heavy lifting in their SPS systems.

 

[Nonya]

Ive already post in other threads videos where the coral farmers , some , not all, so not making a broad statement, yse both led and mh/ t5.

In those vids the farmers all say mh for speed of growth. T5 and led for intense color.
I am posting this not to prove you wrong but to help others who may read your comment and believe that's definitive.

If it's actually a choice of color vs. growth (but not in my experience) I'll take the color 100 percent of the time.

 

[djf91]

If it's actually a choice of color vs. growth (but not in my experience) I'll take the color 100 percent of the time.

Saying that LEDs always produce better color than Halides is a ridiculous statement.

 

[Nonya]

Saying that LEDs always produce better color than Halides is a ridiculous statement.

I think you are arguing a point I never made. Take another look. Somebody else said that.

 

[MnFish1]

Something being overlooked, it's not just the led diodes when leds are thrown away. It's the entire light fixture,with the circuit boards, wiring, ect. Think about all the different components that make up those boards and the metals and other toxic elements they contain. Also the production of all those individual parts should be factored in as well. Since most are produced in countries with lax environmental protection laws the increase is substantial. Strip mining for the copper ect.

Off topic but have you ever looked into the production of lithium car batteries? Lithium is strip mined ,the refinement produces countless hazardous waste. The veil of environmental consciousness is blinding.

Yes - (to answer your second question last) - .. It amazes me that people think that the electricity to power their electric cars comes from the wall rather than a 'power plant'. I personally would rank fluorescents and Halides as more energy inefficient and toxic as compared to LEDS. maybe you have more information?

 

[Nonya]

Something being overlooked, it's not just the led diodes when leds are thrown away. It's the entire light fixture,with the circuit boards, wiring, ect. Think about all the different components that make up those boards and the metals and other toxic elements they contain. Also the production of all those individual parts should be factored in as well. Since most are produced in countries with lax environmental protection laws the increase is substantial.

Yeah, LEDs are bad for the environment. Fortunately, the production of ballasts for MH and fluorescents is environmentally safe. ;D

Did you mean etc. (et cetera)?

 

[damsels are not mean]

If it's actually a choice of color vs. growth (but not in my experience) I'll take the color 100 percent of the time.

agree, growth is a pain unless you suck at growing TBH!

 

[Nonya]

agree, growth is a pain unless you suck at growing TBH!

LOL.

 

[Shooter6]

Last I saw Top Shelf Aquatics was still using 400 watt Radium MH to do their heavy lifting in their SPS systems.

Yes they were 1 example of multiple that I posted.

 

[Shooter6]

If it's actually a choice of color vs. growth (but not in my experience) I'll take the color 100 percent of the time.

You are also not a farmer of corals , and you were one of the people I had to post those vids to disprove, and then you refused to watch those vids.

I feel there's space for all 3 option in lighting.
Leds big stand out is in form ie looks, and the ramp up and down. T5 does everything led can do, easily proven by the ab+ settings most led users try to match with their lights settings.

Mh growth hands down and shimmer .

These statements offend led users though for no explainable reason.

 

[Nonya]

No offense taken. But given the choice between growth without great pigmentation and great pigmentation, the choice is easy. Who cares about growing brown corals no matter how fast they grow?

 

[damsels are not mean]

Mh growth hands down and shimmer .

data please

These statements offend led users though for no explainable reason.

You are on a thread about some data that supports the opposite of the last thing you said explaining to LED users that their lights are inferior and you just know and that they are the offended ones.

 

[A. grandis]

Ive already post in other threads videos where the coral farmers , some , not all, so not making a broad statement, yse both led and mh/ t5.

In those vids the farmers all say mh for speed of growth. T5 and led for intense color.
I am posting this not to prove you wrong but to help others who may read your comment and believe that's definitive.

Actually metal halides are for COLOR and GROWTH. Some can say only for growth, but they forget that the pigment formation is actually emphasized by the unique metal halide spectrum and intensity.
Chris from ACI, for example, is pretty set on that. He affirms: "halides to grow, LEDs to show". Aside from that statement he also shows in his videos that the pigment formation under halides is substantially prominent, and then he uses LEDs to show those fluorescent pigments with the "actinic" affect under some Philips Coral Care LEDs. Same thing others do with ATI Blue Plus to show those fluorescent proteins.
I'm just posting this here because this is what every metal halide user also see and it's a fact.
Chris from ACI goes further and always say that metal halides produce the most HEALTHY corals. He is also a fan of kalkwasser to maintain his systems.

 

[oreo54]

Actually metal halides are for COLOR and GROWTH. Some can say only for growth, but they forget that the pigment formation is actually emphasized by the unique metal halide spectrum and intensity.
Chris from ACI, for example, is pretty set on that. He affirms: "halides to grow, LEDs to show". Aside from that statement he also shows in his videos that the pigment formation under halides is substantially prominent, and then he uses LEDs to show those fluorescent pigments with the "actinic" affect under some Philips Coral Care LEDs. Same thing others do with ATI Blue Plus to show those fluorescent proteins.
I'm just posting this here because this is what every metal halide user also see and it's a fact.
Chris from ACI goes further and always say that metal halides produce the most HEALTHY corals. He is also a fan of kalkwasser to maintain his systems.

Like this?

 

[A. grandis]

No offense taken. But given the choice between growth without great pigmentation and great pigmentation, the choice is easy. Who cares about growing brown corals no matter how fast they grow?

This statement isn't accurate.
Metal halides will actually produce more natual pigmentation and will grow corals faster. The thing is that most people today is attached to the "blues" to see the florescent pigments and some leave their blue LEDs the whole day. It's the fashion now. It is a fact that blue LEDs will provide a stronger perception of those fluorescent proteins to the human eye and that is basically what's going on.
This is not to flame LEDs at all. It's just the way it works and what's going on.
Normally the reflection of those pigments aren't as noticeable as under metal halides and T5s as they are under LEDs. They new people in the hobby call that "pop".

 

[A. grandis]

Like this?

No, actually a little deeper than that, Oreo.
I'm talking about PIGMENT FORMATION, not maintenance or showing those pigments.
Whoever doesn't believe me can just call him cause I can't find the video now among so many on Face Book.
Everyone that has some actual experience with halides know that, Oreo.