Metal Halide vs. LED Rates of Photosynthesis

[livinlifeinBKK]

What's good enough for the coral farms is good enough for me (Leds)...when you take into consideration the drawbacks of MHs, LEDs look pretty good imo...

 

[Wasabiroot]

True, that's the other factor, species of coral. Not all are equal in their ability to adapt to lighting changes/intensities. My point about the hose analogy is based on the fact that this experiment wasn't comparing two identical spectrums of light, but two vastly different spectrums or lack of. This is apples to oranges at best.

Isn't that the point though? It's the face value of the lights being studied. It's very easy to move the goalposts repeatedly so that the study becomes "invalid". Since LEDS don't have as much energy in the UV and infrared spectrum, and the comparison is simply led vs metal halide rates of photosynthesis, why expect the study to be molded so they are as similar as possible in spectrum? Then you're not comparing the products as they exist in reality. This is just one study on one coral. It's a piece of the whole, not meant as an indictment of MH or as a nail in the coffin. Just as a data set. It doesn't have to be the literal perfect comparison, it's just a presentation of recorded data.

 

[RedoubtReef]

Scared? No. Pragmatist? Yep.
Nobody's telling you what to do with your "old standard" bulbs, except that I hope you make sure they don't end up in the landfill.
LEDs have been capable of growing great SPS ever since I built my own system a decade ago. Certain commercial fixtures are still playing catch-up to what I was used to with my DIY LEDs, but with so many people successfully growing great reefs for quite a while (as in Tank of the Month, Reef of the Month, etc.), it looks like the battle is over. Halides are no longer necessary.

Sorry, where do your/our LEDs go besides the landfill when they no longer work or are replaced?

 

[Nonya]

Sorry, where do your/our LEDs go besides the landfill when they no longer work or are replaced?

I was referring to mercury-based bulbs. What's your point?

 

[RedoubtReef]

I was referring to mercury-based bulbs. What's your point?

LED is just as toxic when it ends up in the garbage

 

[Nonya]

LED is just as toxic when it ends up in the garbage

What data is available that proves your statement? I've never seen anything suggesting that.

 

[minus9]

Isn't that the point though? It's the face value of the lights being studied. It's very easy to move the goalposts repeatedly so that the study becomes "invalid". Since LEDS don't have as much energy in the UV and infrared spectrum, and the comparison is simply led vs metal halide rates of photosynthesis, why expect the study to be molded so they are as similar as possible in spectrum? Then you're not comparing the products as they exist in reality. This is just one study on one coral. It's a piece of the whole, not meant as an indictment of MH or as a nail in the coffin. Just as a data set. It doesn't have to be the literal perfect comparison, it's just a presentation of recorded data.

I wasn't moving the goalpost, nor am I defending just halides, just making an observation, that's all. I use both types of lighting, but I can see how both "sides" want it to lean one way or the other, that's not me. I was looking at the info presented.

 

[Wasabiroot]

I wasn't moving the goalpost, nor am I defending just halides, just making an observation, that's all. I use both types of lighting, but I can see how both "sides" want it to lean one way or the other, that's not me. I was looking at the info presented.

You said it was an apples to oranges study...that's the main reason I commented that. But I get what you're saying.

 

[RedoubtReef]

What data is available that proves your statement? I've never seen anything suggesting that.

Study looks at toxic metal content of LEDs

A recently-published journal paper suggests that many LEDs should be classified as hazardous waste, but the sample size is very small and some of the conclusions drawn could easily...

www.ledsmagazine.com

LED products billed as eco-friendly contain toxic metals, study finds

Those light-emitting diodes marketed as safe, environmentally preferable alternatives to traditional light bulbs actually contain lead, arsenic and a dozen other potentially hazardous substances, according to new research.

www.sciencedaily.com

electronicstakeback.com

Are Broken LED Light Bulbs Dangerous? - LED & Lighting Info

Broken glass, harmful gases, toxic substances...old light bulbs offered a wide range of hazards if they were to break. While they weren't inherently dangerous, they were risky if you mishandled the. Is that the same with more modern options? Are broken LED bulbs just as much of a risk, or is...

ledlightinginfo.com

just a few...Not to mention the resources they use in being produced. I'm just saying they have the same issues when it comes to disposal as other bulbs.

 

[Wasabiroot]

From the last article:
"To put it simply, the level of each toxic material in an LED is minuscule. Under Title 22, Californian law sets out the maximum weight of harmful substances permitted per kilogram. LEDs fall way below this limit."

 

[MnFish1]

Study looks at toxic metal content of LEDs

A recently-published journal paper suggests that many LEDs should be classified as hazardous waste, but the sample size is very small and some of the conclusions drawn could easily...

www.ledsmagazine.com

LED products billed as eco-friendly contain toxic metals, study finds

Those light-emitting diodes marketed as safe, environmentally preferable alternatives to traditional light bulbs actually contain lead, arsenic and a dozen other potentially hazardous substances, according to new research.

www.sciencedaily.com

electronicstakeback.com

Are Broken LED Light Bulbs Dangerous? - LED & Lighting Info

Broken glass, harmful gases, toxic substances...old light bulbs offered a wide range of hazards if they were to break. While they weren't inherently dangerous, they were risky if you mishandled the. Is that the same with more modern options? Are broken LED bulbs just as much of a risk, or is...

ledlightinginfo.com

just a few...Not to mention the resources they use in being produced. I'm just saying they have the same issues when it comes to disposal as other bulbs.

Um...... the second article is comparing LED's to incandescent bulbs.

This is a direct quote from the third article - which directly contradicts what you are trying to say (I think):

"Although they contain hazardous materials, such as lead and nickel, LEDs are considered safe because the concentration of these substances is so minimal. Beyond the obvious dangers of shattered glass, broken LEDs have no dangerous implications and can easily be disposed of.

So it seems that the lighting industry has come a long way since the era of mercury-ridden fluorescent bulbs. But I’m sure some of you are still apprehensive – surely, any exposure to hazardous materials is reckless?

I want to explain why this is not the case. Keep reading to learn about the real dangers of LED bulbs, including a full analysis of the hazardous materials."

"To put it simply, the level of each toxic material in an LED is minuscule. Under Title 22, Californian law sets out the maximum weight of harmful substances permitted per kilogram. LEDs fall way below this limit.

While I certainly don’t recommend cracking open an LED and breathing in its fumes. Exposure to these toxic materials in such minute amounts is unlikely to have any nasty consequences."

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Um...... the second article is comparing LED's to incandescent bulbs.

This is a direct quote from the third article - which directly contradicts what you are trying to say (I think):

"Although they contain hazardous materials, such as lead and nickel, LEDs are considered safe because the concentration of these substances is so minimal. Beyond the obvious dangers of shattered glass, broken LEDs have no dangerous implications and can easily be disposed of.

So it seems that the lighting industry has come a long way since the era of mercury-ridden fluorescent bulbs. But I’m sure some of you are still apprehensive – surely, any exposure to hazardous materials is reckless?

I want to explain why this is not the case. Keep reading to learn about the real dangers of LED bulbs, including a full analysis of the hazardous materials."

"To put it simply, the level of each toxic material in an LED is minuscule. Under Title 22, Californian law sets out the maximum weight of harmful substances permitted per kilogram. LEDs fall way below this limit.

While I certainly don’t recommend cracking open an LED and breathing in its fumes. Exposure to these toxic materials in such minute amounts is unlikely to have any nasty consequences."

Sounds like LEDs are better in many ways tbh

 

[RedoubtReef]

Um...... the second article is comparing LED's to incandescent bulbs.

This is a direct quote from the third article - which directly contradicts what you are trying to say (I think):

"Although they contain hazardous materials, such as lead and nickel, LEDs are considered safe because the concentration of these substances is so minimal. Beyond the obvious dangers of shattered glass, broken LEDs have no dangerous implications and can easily be disposed of.

So it seems that the lighting industry has come a long way since the era of mercury-ridden fluorescent bulbs. But I’m sure some of you are still apprehensive – surely, any exposure to hazardous materials is reckless?

I want to explain why this is not the case. Keep reading to learn about the real dangers of LED bulbs, including a full analysis of the hazardous materials."

"To put it simply, the level of each toxic material in an LED is minuscule. Under Title 22, Californian law sets out the maximum weight of harmful substances permitted per kilogram. LEDs fall way below this limit.

While I certainly don’t recommend cracking open an LED and breathing in its fumes. Exposure to these toxic materials in such minute amounts is unlikely to have any nasty consequences."

The point is they all have a real and potential hazard in disposal and the resources used to produce them. Use whatever lighting lets you sleep at night

 

[Wasabiroot]

The point is they all have a real and potential hazard in disposal and the resources used to produce them. Use whatever lighting lets you sleep at night

Other than one having mercury and a higher likelihood of exposure to it and the other one not, I agree. I love the look of MH. Not for me, but I'm not gonna judge anyone who is ok with the heat/etc. You do you, as long as you're also letting others do them.

 

[MnFish1]

The point is they all have a real and potential hazard in disposal and the resources used to produce them. Use whatever lighting lets you sleep at night

If safety of disposal is going to one of your criteria to use a light - the point is the 'Potential hazard' is Fluorescents / MH >>> LED right?

 

[Wasabiroot]

In any event, I'm going to recuse myself for now. I don't want to derail this thread into yet another MH vs LED debate. This was an interesting study from a guy very knowledgeable about lights, and I'm thankful we have access to any data we can use to increase our husbandry levels.

 

[Nonya]

LED is just as toxic when it ends up in the garbage

Nothing you've listed below has any scientific data indicating that any of the materials end up in groundwater or the air. Is it possible? Yes. Proven? Not yet, and I certainly hope not.

Study looks at toxic metal content of LEDs

A recently-published journal paper suggests that many LEDs should be classified as hazardous waste, but the sample size is very small and some of the conclusions drawn could easily...

www.ledsmagazine.com

The opening line of the article states, "some of the conclusions drawn could easily be described as scaremongering."

electronicstakeback.com

The focus of the article is on recycling, not toxicity.

Are Broken LED Light Bulbs Dangerous? - LED & Lighting Info

Broken glass, harmful gases, toxic substances...old light bulbs offered a wide range of hazards if they were to break. While they weren't inherently dangerous, they were risky if you mishandled the. Is that the same with more modern options? Are broken LED bulbs just as much of a risk, or is...

ledlightinginfo.com

From the article: "To summarise: yes, LEDs contain toxic materials in the form of arsenic, lead, iron, copper, and nickel. But the quantity of these materials is so minuscule that a broken LED presents no real threat to humans."

 

[RedoubtReef]

Nothing you've listed below has any scientific data indicating that any of the materials end up in groundwater or the air. Is it possible? Yes. Proven? Not yet, and I certainly hope not.

The opening line of the article states, "some of the conclusions drawn could easily be described as scaremongering."

The focus of the article is on recycling, not toxicity.

From the article: "To summarise: yes, LEDs contain toxic materials in the form of arsenic, lead, iron, copper, and nickel. But the quantity of these materials is so minuscule that a broken LED presents no real threat to humans."

feel free to chuck them in the trash then. your conscience seems to be good with it.

 

[MnFish1]

feel free to chuck them in the trash then. your conscience seems to be good with it.

Actually - the issue is an issue when people chuck them (LED fixtures) in the trash - and then the bulbs are crushed. So - I would suggest - like you would with a computer, or phone or etc etc - LED's should be disposed of properly (I'm sure you agree).

But come on - one of the articles said 'a child might think a Christmas light is a piece of candy'.

 

[Nonya]

So back to the

feel free to chuck them in the trash then. your conscience seems to be good with it.

They say when surrounded by gators, shoot the gator closest to you. That would be mercury.