Metal Halides are the bomb

[Butcher333]

This may sound like incoherent ramblings….but here we go. The subjective “natural and crisp aesthetic” can be so widely interpreted. One can go snorkeling and swim down to 15 feet or more and if you look around, the backdrop appears blue as blue can be, but look at the shimmering light reflected off the rocks and corals (to me) still has that 6500k-10,000k appearance. All reflected full spectrum light. No fluorescence.

To make for a truly natural appearing reef you really should put 6500K or 10,000K metal halides in, with a BLUE tank background (not black or clear), and keep it clean. Don’t allow coraline and gunk to build up on it. And use ATI Blue+ bulbs as the t5 supplement. Or mix evenly blue and true actinic t5 bulbs for your fluorescent dawn/dusk viewing. They won’t show up much for daytime viewing when the halides are on but you can enjoy the blueness when the halides are off.

The whole schtick of “corals in 20-50 feet of water only get blue light” just doesn’t play out visually, practically. The ocean backdrop is blue, but the corals still look like they’re getting white light. Nowhere in nature do you see an equivalent to a tank illuminated by blue LEDs or blue t5’s. Green and near yellow penetrate just as deep as blue does. That will mute nearly all fluorescence

I sure do like the s&^t you say @Bpb
“To make for a truly natural appearing reef you really should put 6500K or 10,000K metal halides in, with a BLUE tank background (not black or clear), and keep it clean.”
I was running these same thoughts a while back when pondering the perspective of blueness in a thread and you have very clearly explained it. Very succinctly too. I really like the contributions you make and they don’t sound like incoherent ramblings. That’s funny.

 

[Bpb]

I sure do like the s&^t you say @Bpb
“To make for a truly natural appearing reef you really should put 6500K or 10,000K metal halides in, with a BLUE tank background (not black or clear), and keep it clean.”
I was running these same thoughts a while back when pondering the perspective of blueness in a thread and you have very clearly explained it. Very succinctly too. I really like the contributions you make and they don’t sound like incoherent ramblings. That’s funny.

Thank you! Glad it hit the mark! Every time I’ve been in the water that’s been my thought. Yeah. Very blue. All around. But the rocks and corals still look 6500k. Never actually seen anything that looks like the blue we keep our reef tanks. That’s not to say I don’t appreciate the artificial heavy blue effect in small doses. It is a cool effect. Especially on lps. Love it. But it is in no way natural looking

 

[Breadman03]

I’m looking on how to make my current gear perform as well as possible. I’ve got 3x250 watt Lumenbright Mini’s with Radium bulbs on electronic ballasts over a 72x36x24, 270 gallon tank. The bottom of the pendants are currently about 24” above the water line. I’m going Acro heavy, but I’ll be fine so long as the center strip of the tank will support them for now.
What height should I be running this setup for best performance?
Secondarily, would swapping to 400 watts be worthwhile with these reflectors or is there a better option for when my build budget recovers? Thanks!!!

 

[Bpb]

I’m looking on how to make my current gear perform as well as possible. I’ve got 3x250 watt Lumenbright Mini’s with Radium bulbs on electronic ballasts over a 72x36x24, 270 gallon tank. The bottom of the pendants are currently about 24” above the water line. I’m going Acro heavy, but I’ll be fine so long as the center strip of the tank will support them for now.
What height should I be running this setup for best performance?
Secondarily, would swapping to 400 watts be worthwhile with these reflectors or is there a better option for when my build budget recovers? Thanks!!!

Use a par meter to establish your operating height. Moreso to track the evenness of par distribution. Running higher par with metal halides is easier to do without consequence versus leds, so I would start at 24” high and just track a par meter all over the tank and look for hot/cold spots in light Intensity.

When I used those reflectors on a 24” tall tank, mounting them 12” made serious hot spots. 400+ par on the sandbed but step 1” to the outside of the primary light fixture footprint and it would drop to under 100.

Lumen bright minis are a very deep and focused reflector. The metal halide equivalent of a black box optic. They shoot a laser beam of light directly downward and spread very little laterally. I expect 24” will end up being pretty close to your ideal mounting height you’ll still have plenty of par on the rocks and it just might be necessary to get the light to blanket evenly.

 

[Hawaii hobbyist]

Here's a pic of one of the NELHA coral tanks while LED experiments were in progress. Note the shade cloth atop the aquarium.

We used to battle the sun at NELHA as well. It’s brutal off Keahole point. The worst is when the wind would come through and thrash everything. Shade cloths and structures would be in tatters

 

[Hawaii hobbyist]

Craziest colors and growth I've ever had on my zoanthid system was using Iwasaki 6500K bulbs. So crazy that I'm not using now because the 20000Ks are already making them grow too fast. They looked extremely healthy and colors/behavior just like in the ocean. That is what matter to me the most.

Any soft/hard coral, giant clam, zoanthids and even coralline algae will do better under halides/T5s. Proper halide/T5 fixture/wattage according to any system will result in an outstanding display! Fishes will show better health under proper light. Halide/t5 will punch their colors and make the environment stress free for the fish in comparison to LEDs in the long run IME. That is absolutely noticeable! Not higher wattage, but the properties of the light: spectrum and distribution. It is so evident to our eyes.

LED market has been driven this hobby to a false belief with their aggressive claims comparing their products to T5s and halides as a superior option since the beginning, no matter what. Saving money on energy and not buying bulbs every year was and still is the top of their market strategies. All in the favor of their own pockets and the great "new technology" and "future of the hobby" making toy looking pucks more like Christmas lights to be the center of attention. They found the hobby to be an easy opportunity for their fast production gains. Doing their business, nothing wrong with that! Many started to add T5s to mask the symptoms and get better results after noticing the need, right? Even the lack of UV was an excuse to get new LED fixtures going and make a profit adding some violets to their LED combos. Violet diodes. Fine to use LEDs as a supplement, maybe a strip or 2, but if you want to get the very best out of your reef tank, halides and/or T5s are still the way to go. Other wise... spend a fortune to get close to that sweet spot and make yourself happy showing off those expensive T5 looking LED fixtures, like the Lani LED.
Unless you don't know any better.

Nice thread on UV:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/uv-with-t5s.750627/
This is a halide thread... and they are the bomb!

Facts!!

 

[Kfactor]

i just got another reefbrite mh hybrid but it came with a differnt power supply and doesn't have the same power out put it looks way less bright then the other can i splice them togather to use the same power supply?

 

[minus9]

i just got another reefbrite mh hybrid but it came with a differnt power supply and doesn't have the same power out put it looks way less bright then the other can i splice them togather to use the same power supply?

Give Tullio a call at Reef Brite. He'll help you out.

 

[A. grandis]

i just got another reefbrite mh hybrid but it came with a differnt power supply and doesn't have the same power out put it looks way less bright then the other can i splice them togather to use the same power supply?

Would you please post a picture of the differences? Thanks!

 

[Kfactor]

Would you please post a picture of the differences? Thanks!

 

[skip0211]

Wow…

 

[ingchr1]

i just got another reefbrite mh hybrid but it came with a differnt power supply and doesn't have the same power out put it looks way less bright then the other can i splice them togather to use the same power supply?

What are the specs on each power supply?

Looks like the one is dimmed. Make sure all connections are tight.

 

[Kfactor]

I had a power supply from somthing else that match the other one and now it’s good . I glad I switch my new build to mh the look can’t be beat . I got both my reef brite hybrids with ballest used for 500 can. I can’t wait to put more sticks in !

 

[Torontotraders]

Hey folks. I finally got my giesemann up and running with 3 Hamilton 250w 14k bulbs. Absolutely love them! I’m wondering if anyone would know if the two hanging cables could hold 4 (or3 90) light bars on the sides of the giesemann? I have two right now, and waiting for the other two to get delivered, then plan on riveting them on the sides of the giesemann. Not worried about resale, because to me, they’re more valuable in my hands.

The light bars aren’t too heavy, and the cable, I’m assuming is aircraft cable; however, something is only as strong as it’s weakest link, perhaps the other screw components of the cable? Thoughts?

 

[Saltydog69]

I will say this, I am a pretty smart guy and ran a commercial grow facility for about 5 years. We spent a LOT of time testing bulbs, reflectors, different combinations of lights. The LED guys were pushing us HARD to invest in LED. I spent on average about $9,000 /month on electricity. Two 3 phase 600 amp panels maxed out plus a third 240 400 amo panel.

Anyways, save 4k a month on power? Sure I will bite. The par numbers looked good, as did the wavelength. First trial was aweful. We doubled the wattage. Meah.. about the same as the HPS in terms of quantity but the aromatics were not there.

Finally I made my own units. Highest quality bin LED, meanwell drivers, huge heat sinks. They were blindingly brite, I thought this is it! We put those units against a 1,000 HPS bulbs, exact same strain, co2, nutrients, everything. It came in with 30% less yield.

So, right then and there I never looked back. Corals and plants are both photosynthetic although they use different wavelengths. I kind of laughed when LED manufacturers were creating little pucks to light wide areas? Why? For less disco affect I guess. It just doesnt align with the physics of light energy and the whole inverse square thing.

Form factor is definately a win for LED, as is the heat thing. Hawaii and halides... ummm no. Simplicity.. MH is a BIG win. It doesnt work? It's the bulb or the ballast, either one is less than $100.

And BTW.. quit spending money on "aquarium" ballasts. You can get much higher quality digital ballasts for less money. Especially on Ebay. A 600 watt adjustable ballast will drive 250 and 400 watt bulbs using the 50% and 75% setting respectively.

Anyways.. thought it was interesting that there is something besides pure par going on.

can you post a pic of these ballast your talking about off ebay or any source. i would love to try them

 

[Superlightman]

Someone knows a website in Europe or england where can buy good bulbs?

 

[Asthix]

Someone knows a website in Europe or england where can buy good bulbs?

I'd love to know also, from time to time i can find some Arcadia but nothing else

 

[MartinM]

Giesemann’s online shop

 

[Superlightman]

Giesemann’s online shop

yes but Giesemann are very expensive and not what I want

 

[A. grandis]

yes but Giesemann are very expensive and not what I want

What do you want, exactly?
It will be much easier to find what you are looking for if you ask specifically.