Metal Halides Making a Come Back? Don’t call it a come back?

[A. grandis]

Nobodys built one... ever AFAICT.
There was little incentive.. the "blue craze" w. Royal blue leds drown it out..
OK using ONLY science..
Here is a Iwasaki killer.. See any fixtures even CLOSE to emulating it?Whites alone are capable of 18000 lumens easily and as "full spectrum" as you can get with one led
In "my opinion" the poor quality whites and not understanding the addition of cyan and some other band ratios is the major factors dooming most LEDs from being "equivalent"
At the time the build would have been fairly cheap.. in the $40o range. May have needed fans .
Point is using physics and yes somewhat ignoring UV/IR though the 385's add some.
The Hylux I believe was the "terrestrial" 6500k

If one day you "make" a LED fixture with all those wavelengths trying to emulate Iwasakis' spectrum chart (or any halide in the world as you see on graphics), you will still not have a metal halide, but a LED fixture. You will not be able to get to the amazing intensity and distribution of those wavelengths and photons like halides to. Ever! Simply because they are not the same animal! The way the light is produced and distribute are tremendously different. One just can't substitute the other, practically. Never will! I understand your passion for the colorful graphics and you try your best to prove things here, but it doesn't translate in the real world. Halides are still the bomb of all lights for any reef system, as for the best representation of natural sunlight spectrum and distribution with the right fixture for the application.

 

[A. grandis]

Sorry there was a company.. why a new one?

Go ask them. Call them.

 

[oreo54]

Go ask them. Call them.

If one day you "make" a LED fixture with all those wavelengths trying to emulate Iwasakis' spectrum chart (or any halide in the world as you see on graphics), you will still not have a metal halide, but a LED fixture. You will not be able to get to the amazing intensity and distribution of those wavelengths and photons like halides to. Ever! Simply because they are not the same animal! The way the light is produced and distribute are tremendously different. One just can't substitute the other, practically. Never will! I understand your passion for the colorful graphics and you try your best to prove things here, but it doesn't translate in the real world. Halides are still the bomb of all lights for any reef system, as for the best representation of natural sunlight spectrum and distribution with the right fixture for the application.

Sure.....

 

[A. grandis]

Soo no one tech beats them all.. LOL
Each has their weaknesses..
Of course you can sort of have it all w/ led.. "sun" pucks and diffuse bars..
Sorry couldn't resist.

ll I've said was that all 3 technologies have different qualities.
You just can't compare LEDs to halides in many ways.

 

[oreo54]

If one day you "make" a LED fixture with all those wavelengths trying to emulate Iwasakis' spectrum chart (or any halide in the world as you see on graphics), you will still not have a metal halide, but a LED fixture. You will not be able to get to the amazing intensity and distribution of those wavelengths and photons like halides to. Ever! Simply because they are not the same animal! The way the light is produced and distribute are tremendously different. One just can't substitute the other, practically. Never will! I understand your passion for the colorful graphics and you try your best to prove things here, but it doesn't translate in the real world. Halides are still the bomb of all lights for any reef system, as for the best representation of natural sunlight spectrum and distribution with the right fixture for the application.

Photons are the same no matter how it's produced.
To quote Tuillo..."look at the spectrum"

 

[oreo54]

ll I've said was that all 3 technologies have different qualities.
You just can't compare LEDs to halides in many ways.

Your right.. I could never build an led to look like this . Too spiky.

 

[Reefering1]

Photons are the same no matter how it's produced.
To quote Tuillo..."look at the spectrum"

Are the photos the same when parts of the spectrum are cut short and left out?

 

[A. grandis]

You choose your personal preferences and your results! Until you find a nice tank under halides, you just can't make your mind to your nice tank under LEDs. The personal choice can include also the excuses you want to make, but the reef tank is yours... you decide. Just don't admire too much that tank under halides with that amazing coral gowth and coloration showing an amazing natural look and try to explain why you can't have it at home. LOL!

 

[oreo54]

Are the photos the same when parts of the spectrum are cut short and left out?

You referring to the big IR tail for the mh's or the minor spike in the lower UV band. I've already mentioned leaving it out
There is no proof either band is critical or even advantageous. Well except as a heater substitute.
A bit about the Emerson enhancement effect ( I'm keeping an open mind on that one) at high par levels but not actually proven.

 

[A. grandis]

Photons are the same no matter how it's produced.
To quote Tuillo..."look at the spectrum"

Do you want to quote Tullio? Really? Should I put all his videos about halide here? LOL!

 

[oreo54]

Do you want to quote Tullio? Really? Should I put all his videos about halide here? LOL!

Sure why not. You cherry pick so I will as well. You need to hear what he actually says not what you think he says. Then again he says some unproven things
But if I ever raise sea turtles or penguins I'll be sure to include some vit d inducing UV .

 

[A. grandis]

Sure why not. You cherry pick so I will as well. You need to hear what he actually says not what you think he says.

I'm just trying to do the same that you just did, man!
His context about halides is pretty heavy towards them, by the way!
And he is basically the "inventor" of reef LED lighting in a way!
He still sells LEDs!

 

[oreo54]

I'm just trying to do the same that you just did, man!

Yea but that's only for you man..

 

[A. grandis]

Well... up to this date there is no one that tried more LEDs in this world, and absolutely loved them for what he wanted to admit, and had experience with so many types of corals under halides and LEDs for the comparison... so as for the best example, we have what Jake would consider the very best for the corals in terms of quality of light, for the corals. Just need to put that here for practical reference, because that is what matters.

 

[A. grandis]

Yea but that's only for you man..

I don't get it.
When the light is better for the corals' metabolism, isn't a matter of me, but the corals, in practical results.
It would be more about me if I would use any of the personal excuses like "too hot", "too much electricity", "bulky fixtures", "burning my elbows", etc...

 

[dadnjesse]

I use led's and T5's now but am holding on to my Metal Halide pendents and M80 Ballast's as they are hard to find and may some day put them to use.

 

[Reefering1]

Regardless of what anybody prefers(or why) we should all want all options available. Idk about you guys but I don't want Big Reef Sales to dictate what I can or can't do with my tank by virtue of availability

 

[Troylee]

Don’t call it come back there here to stay! Radium has proven that!

 

[A. grandis]

You referring to the big IR tail for the mh's or the minor spike in the lower UV band. I've already mentioned leaving it out
There is no proof either band is critical or even advantageous. Well except as a heater substitute.
A bit about the Emerson enhancement effect ( I'm keeping an open mind on that one) at high par levels but not actually proven.

Not even any practical proof? Do you think anyone with the right mind that use and testifies for the amazing results of halides in comparison to any LEDs, would question the presence of the intense UV and IR they produce using any bunch of papers you can find? LOL! Not to ask you how many people that uses halides would even think that, even if they can't prove the efficacy of the presence of those wavelengths out of the PAR range, would think about how much "better" would be without them coming from those lamps. We already know by using LEDs! I think, in terms of science, we would all agree that to resemble all aspect of sunlight would be the best bet and safest way to keep the corals in captivity with optimal health for long periods of time. I mean, if you want to put those millions of years of adaptation and all that, right? Did I mentioned the practical results in pigment formation and natural growth rates and colony structural formation yet?? Oh yeah, and the very natural look! Please don't get me started!

 

[A. grandis]

I use led's and T5's now but am holding on to my Metal Halide pendents and M80 Ballast's as they are hard to find and may some day put them to use.

Put them to use now! Life is too short!!!!