Micro Scrubbing Bubbles.

[Lasse]

the pH may drop (or stay steady but low), especially during the day when the tank may run at a CO2 deficit relative to the air used.

I´m sorry I do not get this. My tank run always high in pH during day (during the photoperiod) because that the photosynthesis consume carbon dioxide faster than it is produced by living organisms or transferred through the air/water interface. What have I missunderstand?

But here in Sweden with very isolated houses – it is a problem with the carbon dioxid content indoors. 600 ppm indoors (two persons) is common. I know people that has measured 1200 ppm CO2 in their sump cabinet during night!

If you in top of this use a calcium reactor – you can have some problems to get higher pH than 7.9 - 8.

Today its rather common here to use a CO2 scrubber in order to get up the pH during night time.

In my old aquarium my pH was normally between 8.2 – 8.5. But when my two grand children was sleeping over and was awake – the pH dropped at least 0.1 unit! It was possible to se when they wake up during the morning because I always get a pH drop on 0.1 units in that moment

Sincerely Lasse

 

[cb684]

I still doubt that any of our systems of mixing air and water producing nanobubbles of any significance amount. Neither in the skimmer or with help of wooden airstones. If there is evidences that the bubble scrubbing method works against dinos and cyano , I am convinced that we must look for the explanation along another path.

The day that someone is able to really demonstrate, not only claim, existing nanobubbles in a normal aquarium I will maybe change my mind.

The effect of better degaussing, debris removal and other things can be explained with normal aquatic husbandry - without the “witchcraft” of nanobubbles.

If we should produce nanobubbles for our aquarium – I´m convinced that we must use methods that put us on the eve of destruction in form of bubble disease. I can´t forget a sentence in the japanese paper there they say that if they do not aerate the water containing nanobubbles and a combination of freshwater and saltwater fishes – the fishes will die. IMO – they need to take away excess nitrogen gas through gas exchange.

Sincerely Lasse

I agree with you, and maybe with time we will have the information you want to see (me too). I am not convinced that air nano bubbles are actually only beneficial (although it is likely dose-dependent). Oxygen enrichment may be necessary for larger amounts. We will see...

Also, I have the impression that in this discussion the term nanobubbles is being used loosely. There might be benefits of using microbubbles or larger even with them being short-lived in the settings that are being tested (injecting them in the display tank). It may be even better, or safer than nanobubbles. It is just that nanobubbles sounds really cool and people would like to play with them...

 

[Reeflogic]

Come on, bubbles are fascinating!!! Just admit it! We learned that as wee little lads!

 

[flyinryan75]

Here's my take on this. We're all fellow reefers. Let's not argue among ourselves. Let the people who have knowledge make videos are post pictures on how to make the best micro bubblers. Then we can all test and document the results and draw real conclusions after six months. This should be a team effort. Randy's a chemist, Cruz works in the field, some are good writers and have good documentation skills, others make great videos, others good photographers, and those who communicated well. Unite team!

Nailed it!...

 

[Diesel]

Lasse, for what it's worth, you speak (or write) better English than most of us on this forum.

European schools my friend.
I still have take as today a class in English and all you see from me is what came from what I teach myself, and reading and you guys
Even my own native language isn't my first anymore

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I´m sorry I do not get this. My tank run always high in pH during day (during the photoperiod) because that the photosynthesis consume carbon dioxide faster than it is produced by living organisms or transferred through the air/water interface. What have I missunderstand?

But here in Sweden with very isolated houses – it is a problem with the carbon dioxid content indoors. 600 ppm indoors (two persons) is common. I know people that has measured 1200 ppm CO2 in their sump cabinet during night!

If you in top of this use a calcium reactor – you can have some problems to get higher pH than 7.9 - 8.

Today its rather common here to use a CO2 scrubber in order to get up the pH during night time.

In my old aquarium my pH was normally between 8.2 – 8.5. But when my two grand children was sleeping over and was awake – the pH dropped at least 0.1 unit! It was possible to se when they wake up during the morning because I always get a pH drop on 0.1 units in that moment

I'm not seeing any misunderstanding of what I intended to communicate.

If your pH runs high during the day, that is a deficit of CO2 and aeration will lower the pH.

As you noted, some people have very high indoor CO2, and more aeration can bring the pH down further than one might want.

 

[Diesel]

I hope you notice the " " around the word witchcraft. I do not know if it means something different in English but if you use this " " around a word here in Sweden - it means that you should take the word with a lot of humour

So I hope we have more to say eachother. My true colour? - not even I know

Sincerely Lasse

Oh I know that expression as we from Holland take a lot with humor and some times that can be damaging, as I have learned that hard way in Texas.

 

[Diesel]

I too am very interested in pH tracking before and after. Folks should keep in mind that if the home air used to make the bubbles has elevated CO2 (as home air often does), the pH may drop (or stay steady but low), especially during the day when the tank may run at a CO2 deficit relative to the air used. The same is true for any aeration method used (like a skimmer). That is why some folks using bubbling or skimmers use outside air.

Randy, I have done the test as maybe many other on the skimmer air intake from inside and outside air. we all know it benefits the PH during the night.
I run a CaRx and had drawn air at first from the inside of the room as I use the Lifereef skimmer with their own mthod to draw moist air from the cup in order to keep your airline from salting up.
My PH always was morning at 7.8 or a bit lower and afternoon 8.10 or bit higher but never over 8.15.
When I draw the air from the outside to the skimmer directly through a airline my PH in the morning jumped to 7.95 and afternoon close to 8.2.
Big difference, now I'm not a PH chaser as I look to the health of the corals, yes I have better growth now due to the long term balanced PH and as result a better calcification for the corals.
Running the Micronano's now for a week ( of course I never base any results in this hobby on a week time) in my frag tanks I see even a better PH result from over 8 in the morning and unchanged in the afternoon.
The fresh air part is for sure working.
Other results are still in the process of observation but skimmer is pulling more junk out of the water already.
Since two day I have it running on the DT Diesel tank and can't say much yet in the early stage but I see a better PH for now.

 

[Thales]

Thanks. Seems like you did a bunch of stuff - can you let me know what it was a timeline so I can better understand what has been going on with your system?

I do, but I don't think it's a very objective photo because I began this method shortly after (11 days I think) I did a 3-day blackout combined with raising my pH to 8.4 and dosing 1ml/10 gallons H2O2 to try and obliterate my dino issue....to no avail. So I don't believe that a photo could show the differences I see with my eye. I'm sure you can relate though. If I were to make a comparison, it would be similar to having nice acceptable water clarity from using good activated carbon, but then seeing the water somehow get even clearer, if that makes sense. For me (and I know this is all anecdotal), I see more depth to the tank.

Below is a video from February 14. But as you will probably see, the tank was a bit different then. I didn't have a sump and so the airstones were located directly under my MP10s. On the sandbed are large cyano mats. Even though I wasn't properly implementing the Cruz method, I still generated enough micro/nano bubbles to lift a lot of those mats on the sand up to the surface where I was able to snatch them out of the water. The picture below the video was taken 4 days after the video, and while it still looks rather terrible in there, you should be able to see that there was a reduction in cyano.

 

[bbearden101]

I'm thinking about trying this for trial purposes do you think if I clipped a air hose into my return it would do the same thing right?

 

[Thales]

I tried it just by putting an airline under a prop pump. The results seemed very similar to what people are showing.

 

[bbearden101]

Alright thank you I have air pumps and all that from my freshwater so I figured I'd give it a shot would a small air stone work the same if I can get it to stay down? Is the floating problem why people use the wood stone?

 

[Greenstreet.1]

I tried it just by putting an airline under a prop pump. The results seemed very similar to what people are showing.

Man! They got you bro lollol

 

[Thales]

Man! They got you bro lollol

Just you wait! LOL

 

[Greenstreet.1]

Just you wait! LOL

You know that was coming[emoji28]
Just let me know if it lifts up any bubble algae

 

[Thales]

Of course, I am doing it wrong though.

 

[Greenstreet.1]

Oh yea forget there's a wrong and a right way to make the bubbles. I may have to try myself or get a foxface

 

[Thales]

I may have to try myself or get a foxface

For sure. Pop em and let the Foxface bat clean up.

 

[Wilsoni]

Of course, I am doing it wrong though.

@Thales? The THALES from Tonmo? Your avatar is very revealing (;

 

[Thales]

@Thales? The THALES from Tonmo? Your avatar is very revealing (;

Yep! I think I am Thales everywhere now.