Milk cartons

Discussion in 'Triton Applied Reef Bioscience' started by Mrx7899, Dec 31, 2017.

  1. JMetaxas

    JMetaxas Active Member

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    Acrylic Aquariums should be banned from existence......................they support the Petroleum industry.......which of course, is a bad thing. :D:D:D;Writing;Writing;Writing
     
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  2. Want2BS8ed

    Want2BS8ed Active Member R2R Supporter

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    I honestly don't have a problem with Triton's decision to change their packaging, however I do take exception with their lack-luster response to a problem with that packaging and subsequent decisions regarding the pricing differential they discussed here on these forums.

    Profit is not a bad thing, however when you put profit before the integrity of your product, your reputation and more importantly your customers then it is by definition greed and that simply put... is wrong.

    Triton's intentions may have been good at the outset and for that they deserve the benefit of the doubt, however the mediocrity of their response in pushing the onus on their distributors and customers tarnishes those good intentions (if they existed in the first place). And if their were any doubts as to Triton's true intentions all along, why pray tell did they pass along the packaging savings in Europe and not the US as reported by their representative here on R2R?

    If Triton can wrap themselves in altruism for saving the environment, then they should certainly appreciate the same for protecting consumers.

    When did getting two bad products and a refund become a ringing endorsement? That really speaks to BRS's standards for customer service - not Triton's.

    For those that were satisfied with a 5 minute phone call for replacing a leaking container, think for a moment: someone from UC or BRS had to talk to you for 5 minutes to place a new order. Then someone spent 5 minutes picking a new order; and then 5 minutes packing a new order; and then 5 minutes shipping a new order; and someone had to pay for a box; and someone had to pay the shipping; etc., etc.

    Who do you think is ultimately going to pay for that?

    It will be us.

    UC and BRS aren't going (and shouldn't have too) let their margins slip. Triton in not proactively recalling the bad packaging certainly doesn't intend to do anything less than the minimum. Otherwise they would have already announced the problem publicly rather trying to play catch-up every time somebody called them out on a public forum.

    One of the "practical" reasons given for not conducting a recall: only a limited number of customers were impacted and Triton didn't want to strip the market of supply. The fact you can not order any product in the US at the moment implies the problems were more widespread than we were led to believe.

    So here is the dilemma. I like Triton's products. I have been using them for almost 14 month's now, however I do not care for their response to the leaking containers. It breeds uncertainty. I won't go as far as to say Triton is a dis-reputable company, however a more reputable company would have... well... done more.

    As I poured my last 4 liters of Core 7 into their dosing containers this weekend, I had to ask: is it time, as someone else suggested, to "move on" and express my disappointment in Triton by voting with my wallet? That decision is made a bit easier when a) I can't order any product because it's not available, and b) even if I could get it, I would be paying more for it than I should.

    I am certain the rabid fans will have their opinions, but one has to wonder how many others are on the fence?

    M
     
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  3. Lasse

    Lasse Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor

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    Its easy - if you do not like it - do not buy it

    If you like it - buy it - its not more complicated than that

    Because you seems to have more information than we other have about a lot of things as - the agreement between Triton ande their resellers, what the product really cost, why Triton change package and so one - you probably make a god chose to not buy their products - but we other dumb heads that do not have your wisdom probably go one buying their products because they works well and we may like their policy. Its up to you - its up to us to chose - another word for this is freedom of chose

    And your post is of topic - and my too - so mods - take it away

    Sincerely Lasse
     
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  4. rockskimmerflow

    rockskimmerflow Active Member

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    Thank goodness I'm not the only one. I am really irritated with Triton at the moment. I was in the process of switching over all my reefs to the Core7 because after a trial run of the supps I was exceptionally pleased with the overall improvement in the color and vigor of a couple of the stubborn acropora and other sps varieties in my systems vs the DIY 3 part and Brightwell Reef Code I had been using on different tanks. And just as I was about to order another 10 of the 1L sets and 2 of the 10L jumbo sets I come to hear all about this milk carton stuff. I thought to myself, surely it can't be true? Triton - the company all about the practicality and reef keeping at the highest level - switching a very well made, professional looking package to milk carton style jugs??? Surely no.

    From what I understand they were having issues keeping up with the production demand due to the growing popularity of the product and the storage space required for the empty 1L bottles waiting to be filled was than they had available in-house. So rather than expanding or exploring any and all other options to retain the look, feel, and general perceived quality of their product they proceed to scrap the excellently durable bottles and buy a machine that builds them milk cartons. I'm not sure who is making the top executive business decisions there, but generally when you're growing at a rapid rate in one of your product lines and you are gaining market traction quickly the LAST thing you'd want to do is radically change the look, feel, or function of said product. Just boggles the mind that they don't have anyone on staff there with a modicum of business acumen. You'd learn not to pull stunts like that first term at university for a business degree. I really am not sure now if I should, as you said, vote with my wallet and go back to Brightwell and my DIY mixes or soldier on with aftermarket vials and just order the 10 Liter sets since they actually come in hdpe jugs still. I really do like the Core7 supplements having used them for a little over 6 months now during the trial run. That's what makes the decision so much more difficult and frustrating.

    I suggested they offer a more limited run of the white plastic bottles with a price gap of say 5 bucks or so vs the lower cost milk carton sets and let the consumers decide whether they are willing to line their pockets even more just to have a higher quality package. I suspect a lot of ppl would do it. I know I would. And to be clear I have no problem with Triton making money - take more of my money - just don't sell me a great liquid solution in an awful container. I'll pay more to have something with an overall better end user value.

    And finally, to the point about the environmental impact of the plastic. Get real. I wholeheartedly agree that plastic waste is absolutely detrimental to the oceans and is a concern that should be dealt with, but the audacity of Triton to imply that the 0.000001% (probably way too few zeros) impact in CO2 emissions, overall plastic waste, and extra material consumption that the change over of their 1 product line of their tiny company is going to have just makes me laugh. And I don't think they actually believe it will make any real difference on a larger scale. But it is a way to couch a controversial product change. Best to cloak yourself in altruistic intent, moral superiority, and virtue signalling when criticism is in the forecast.
     
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  5. Lasse

    Lasse Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor

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    First about the environmental issue - you maybe do not understand this issue in Europe - this crazy part of the world - maybe Triton make a tiny step - but every trip start with a tiny step. This issues is real in a large part of the world. The environmental part is a part of our living

    To the question about paying 5 bucks more for just a fancy bucket - I´m maybe dumb - but as dumb as that - I´m not

    And still of topic - mods take away

    Sincerely Lasse
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  6. rockskimmerflow

    rockskimmerflow Active Member

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    Of course everything starts with a tiny step, but even if Triton became the only reef company in the world and produced every single reef product there's still a lot of zeros after the decimal in that percent change. Their 'tiny step' is largely irrelevant to the grand scheme of things. I get it makes you feel good and that's great and by all means support them. But to insinuate that spending extra money for convenience and time efficiency is dumb, I'm not sure what to say. The packaging saves me time in bottle form and that's worth it to me. By your own logic you shouldn't use Core7 at all. Buying Core7 itself is you paying someone to do the work for you of making a quality 4 part supplement that in theory you could spend time doing yourself but you choose convenience. For me the HDPE bottle packaging saves me time since I can simply unscrew the top and put the new bottle into place rather than cracking open a milk carton, pouring etc. So please don't call me dumb for finding that convenience something I am willing to spend my money on.

    Also, HDPE is highly recyclable as far as plastics are concerned so rather than harvesting more plant matter to build the milk cartons, let's just entrust our fellow reef hobbyists to be good stewards and recycle the 1 L bottles when done with them. Surely most reefkeepers are capable of that? I know there are other points to the milk cartons being more efficient and of course they are valid, but let's at least agree that in the first place the bottles were not all being thrown straight into the ocean. I'd bet the majority make it into recycling centers at their end user locations.
     
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  7. Sallstrom

    Sallstrom Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor

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    I'm happy with the new cartons. At work we were lucky and didn't get any of the first leaking ones, so about that I can't say nothing.

    At work, a public aquarium, we use a lot of Tritons products. For us it's a good thing to switch to cartons because it's easier to fold and doesn't take up as much space in our recycle storage. That is a cost saver for us.

    Also, in Sweden it's a lot work going on on how to be more environmentally friendly. So for example making Core7 more concentrated is a good thing duo to the CO2 of the shipping. And with the new cartons we can use less plastic. Great I think :)

    / David
     
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  8. bdejong1112o

    bdejong1112o Active Member Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    I went to target and for 4.00 each got these cool clear containerss. 1500ml each. Used the BRS bulkheads and some acrylic rod and poof...cool dosing containers. Benefit over the bottles is that they are clear and I can see the fluid level.

    For leaking containers. I got some. Was a pain but i also got replacements for free. So i got more fluids than what I paid for and well, they said they were sorry, they made it right with me so I got over it. I found a dosing container solution and the product actually works very well.

    20171127_200200.jpg
     
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  9. bdejong1112o

    bdejong1112o Active Member Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Now the issue of it not being in stock....anywhere is real and I sure hope its back before i need more. I would hate to be forced into changing systems. Seen a few horror atories of thanks going south when making such a drastic change.

    I would PM Tim@Triton to see if he has any updates. I doubt he will pop here due to the treatment he gets even when he says sorry....
     
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  10. Want2BS8ed

    Want2BS8ed Active Member R2R Supporter

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    Lasse, no one is calling you a dumb head. We should be able to carry on a civil conversation without resorting to such.

    I honestly wish it were that easy Lasse. I think we can all agree, the Triton Method recommends a higher flow rate than most methods. There was a substantial investment made to adopt Triton and to revert back to continuous water changes will not be without its costs.

    Then there is also the conundrum of Triton taking the moral high road, claiming to reduce their carbon footprint and then asking their customers to suspend any sense of right and wrong in the face of their mediocre response.

    Lasse, you are obviously not in the US. Have you seen a price reduction or are you still in one of those countries that are paying for the more expensive plastic containers and not getting them?

    Lasse, we have only been given a limited set of facts from Triton (one of the issues with how they have responded), however it is only logical the true cost will never be captured in its entirety. That having been said, I have been very fortunate in my life to have been in the manufacturing, wholesale and retail side of this industry. I have also had a 22 year career in international business with enough relevance to make a recommendation to Triton for a PR firm... in Germany! Does that make me smarter than anyone else? No!! However those experiences do shape my opinions and provide the confidence to express my opinion that Triton's response could have been (and should be!) better.

    For give me for being argumentative Lasse and I appreciate you may not like what is being said, however I don't think anyone has strayed off topic. I actually appreciate and respect R2R's moral courage to allow this to be discussed openly and civilly. In a quirky way, Triton as well. Its part of the conundrum - a truly unscrupulous company would have pulled their advertising by now...

    bdejong11120, I am certainly not unhappy for you and I am glad that either UC or BRS stepped up to the plate and made this right for you. Unfortunately nothing is truly free in these situations. Someone ultimately pays for it.

    In a broader sense, can you appreciate that because it required two packages to get you one that didn't leak, that there is someone who can't get one at the moment at all?

    And are you honestly pleased that you are paying more for the plastic containers when you are not getting them?


    When is the future? Was it when the first batch was imported into the US? The next batch everyone is waiting on, or is it when Triton has recovered the cost of replacing all of the leaking containers?


    M
     
  11. bdejong1112o

    bdejong1112o Active Member Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    To be honest, both sets were leaking. After the second one arrived the same as the first I discussed it with BRS and we agreed to hold off on any more attempted shipments until it is corrected.

    As far as not being able to get any. No one can at the moment. Do I feel any sense of personal responsibiloty for that since it took two shipments? No, its no different than if I order (x) of anything else and they happen to be the last ones on the shelf.

    Paying for containers? Well, considering that I spend upwarda of 5 grand on the tank, hardware, pumps, etc. $20.00 for a few plastic dosing containers was a non issue to me. Its not like Triton advertised the utility of thier plastic containers as dosing containers to sace me money.

    Look, they made a change, it didnt go well. It happens. I talked to thier rep here and on facebook. It was explained to me and I am one that assumes no ill will in peoples actions and I do not believe that there was any here. It just went sideways for Triton and for us who use it. However, I am certain theynare working on it and will remedy it as soon as they can. In the meantime I am going to trust that it will resolve itself and if I get close to running out of aolution I will do what I must to keep my animals thriving.

    Its not like Triton sat down in a room and deviaed a long term plan to get us all hooked on the stuff in plastic bottles and then sabotaged the whole mess just to screw us over. :p:p:p:D:D:D

    Sp yes, I am happy, I choose to be happy and live my life and approach issues like this in a positive manner. This has served me well over the years and I will continue to do it until it doesnt.
     
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  12. Lasse

    Lasse Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor

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    Please read the OP - post number 1
    And post 17 from the Mod Shep.

    I can personally discuss this with you how long you want - and I should probably be the last standing.

    It so easy - if you do not like it do not buy it - and if I remember right from another thread - already in mars/april did you talk about to quit the method - long time before the changes and leaked containers.

    I also think that Triton handle its marketing by them self rather good - but for me it seems like negative campaigning is rather common in US

    As an answer to OP of his question if the milk cartons can be used straight off - yes they can - its also easier to drill a little hole in the package for the tube in the top compared with the plastic bottles. But I must say - do not turn it upside down if you drill a hole - it will leak :)

    With this I leave this thread - its free for strategist to continue to make this thread to a milk cartoon :)

    Sincerely Lasse
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
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