Mimicking Tidal Flow in Our Reef Tanks

[reefwiser]

Want to see some bio tope aquarium work with pumps. Go no further than Panta Rhei pumps showcased at their shop in Germany.
Lots of very neat freshwater and saltwater applications.

 

[jlanger]

Want to see some bio tope aquarium work with pumps. Go no further than Panta Rhei pumps showcased at their shop in Germany.
Lots of very neat freshwater and saltwater applications.

The pumps in the stream display move some serious water volume.
And that wave box design on the Lake Tanganyika system is genius!!!

So... I should've had my new tank built with a false bottom for the pumps to hide under and create the alternating flow.

Thanks for adding the video.

 

[reefwiser]

The pumps in the stream display move some serious water volume.
And that wave box design on the Lake Tanganyika system is genius!!!

So... I should've had my new tank built with a false bottom for the pumps to hide under and create the alternating flow.

Thanks for adding the video.

Here is a smaller version of the pumps under the tank idea. Quite genius actually. [emoji3]

 

[Jeremy K.A.]

Want to see some bio tope aquarium work with pumps. Go no further than Panta Rhei pumps showcased at their shop in Germany.
Lots of very neat freshwater and saltwater applications.

George posts some awesome Freshwater videos, absolutely incredible shops and aquascapes! Also happens to know a bit about saltwater as well

 

[Dom]

What are the advantages/benefits to recreating tidal flow in a reef aquarium? Why would I want to recreate it?

 

[stevieduk]

This is an idea I brought up in my local forum last fall.
There was limited discussion and it fell to the wayside during the holiday season.
The following is copies of my original posts outlining my thoughts and ideas.

Originally Posted by jlanger
https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/lo...mbies-1st-place-tourny-winner.html#post612191
I would like to open up some discussion on trying to mimic the water flow found on the reef in our own aquariums.
This has been on my mind for a while, but I thought I would open it up to the masses for more insight and ideas.


Abstract:

Ever since EcoTech Marine updated their ReefLink to work with their VorTech water pumps, I have wanted to try and create a program to create a more realistic representation of what the water flow is actually like on the reefs.
EcoTech Marine has done their research and have created a couple of modes to simulate what flow is like on the reefs.
I have been doing quite a bit of reading and researching of what actually happens during the cycles of water flow on the reefs.
Having owned and used the VorTech pumps for four years, I have tried various modes and settings. These pumps do create a very nice random flow in my tank; I'm not complaining. But I still have not found what I am looking for.
I think with this discussion and further research, we can find what I am trying to achieve with my water flow.
And in all actuality, there may be no beneficial effect from all of this; just like running static moon lights every night.


Equipment and Methodology:

I currently use four VorTech water pumps on my 120gal; two MP40's and 2 MP10's. Each MP40 is paired with an MP10 which are located on opposite side of the tank. The pairs are run anti-synched; so the MP40 on the right is synch with the MP10 on the left and vice versa.
I primarily run the pumps using the EcoSmart Tidal Swell Mode. The night before I do water changes, I switch to the EcoSmart Nutrient Transport Mode.

Here's EcoTech's specifications about these two modes.

With the EcoSmart Tidal Swell Mode, the flow pattern will shift from an emphasis on chaotic left-to-right flow direction into a right-to-left flow direction, with periods of calm in between – followed by a great surge of flow at the very end of the cycle.




With the EcoSmart Nutrient Transport Mode, water is circulated in two phases – a wave motion to stir up detritus, and a surging motion to move the detritus into your overflow.



Long ago, I asked EcoTech Marine how long the cycles were for each mode.
Each mode cycles in 2-½ hours; the pulses in the NTM are for 45 minutes and the swelling is for 30 minutes each.

So as I have dabbled with the EcoSmart Live program, I was trying to find a way to create the "perfect" program to mimic the water flow on the reef.
I know many people like to ramp down the flow during the overnight hours. And some people even run all through all options during the course of the day.
To find the program I wanted, I knew I had to do more research.


Research and Findings:

I started my research with books that I already owned; Delbeek and Sprung's "The Reef Aquarium" series and "The Encyclopedia of Modern Coral Reefs". I moved on to various reefing webpages on water flow in reef tanks. On a whim, I expanded my search outside of the aquarium hobby and I stumbled on to a couple of books/papers discussing tidal swells. It wasn't until I started reading about tidal ebb and flood that I knew I found what I was looking for.
This hobby has spent a lot of effort discussing (and selling) the importance of the lunar cycle in respect to lighting, but not enough on the effect of water flow.
I should have figured this out earlier.
When I was running the Vertex Illumina LED fixture over my reef system, it had a lunar cycle for the moonlighting that would ramp up/down in conjunction with the actual lunar cycle.

One book was worth looking into is "The Dynamics of Coastal Models"; particularly the Effect of Changing Water Level on Flow Over Reefs.

In a paper directed at bodysurfing, "Ebb and Flood: The Science of Tides" discusses and details the changing flow of our ocean's water during the lunar cycle. The paper exhibited a couple of interesting graphs that more than reinforced that this was what I was trying to figure out for my tank.

This graph shows the tidal differences during the course of each day over one month.



And this graph shows various tides and their respective levels during a 24 hour period.



Based from these last two resources, I am trying to figure out how I can create a program for my water pumps to mimic these findings.
Using the modes that are available with the VorTechs, there must be a way to create the variable flow of a true tidal ebb and flood within the aquarium.


Criteria:

To achieve a more true tidal swell, I feel that the two EcoSmart Modes need to be combined somehow into one program.

I like the effect from the Tidal Swell Mode of changing the direction of the flow from one side to the other.
But I do not like that the cycle only lasts 2-½ hours and that both pumps run simultaneously.

I like the effect from the EcoSmart Nutrient Transport Mode that creates short bursts of flow that ramp up over time.
But I do not like that the anti-synched pump immediately pushes back against that flow.

The ideal program should create a semidiurnal tide (two high tides and two low tides) in a 24 hour period.


My Ideas and Thoughts:

To keep the effect of water surge, the pumps should run in a pulse mode; maintaining the "lovely" swaying motion of the coral's polyps.

When creating the ebb or flood, only run one pair of pumps at a time. Maybe running both pairs just during the peaks and valleys of high/low tide could create more random flow during the changing of the tide.

As the tides change, the ramping up and down of the pump's flow and pulses increase and decrease with the tide.
In looking at the final graph, when the graphed line is at it's steepest, the flow and pulse would be at it's greatest. When the line starts to level out, the flow and pulse are weaker.

If I had the time, I could create a graphic depicting the above ideas to better clarify my thoughts. Maybe later.
Think of it as almost like combining the two EcoTech graphs into one; pulses that ramp up and down over time against each other.

But I'm still struggling on how to create the more dramatic changes with the lunar cycle; as shown in the "January 2014" graph.
The water flow and pulses would be more dramatic during the new and full moon cycles, and more stable during the half moon phases.

The EcoSmart Live, as far as I now, only works on a daily cycle; not a monthly cycle.
I'm not sure if I had the pumps controlled through a secondary controller, like an Apex, that I might be able to create a monthly cycle.


Discussion:

So after reading through all of this…
Does anyone have any additional thoughts about trying to create a tidal/lunar cycle with the VorTech water pumps?

As I wrote all of this out, many things fell into place for me concerning what I was looking for.
It's just trying to figure out the specific and getting it to work that is still open for discussion.
As like I stated earlier, none of this may have any effect on such a small system.

Thanks for reading.
Thanks for any input.


And this was my second response trying to visual explain my thoughts for a EcoSmart program mimicking tidal flow.

Originally Posted by jlanger
https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/wt...-colony-pack-steal-post612210.html#post612210
Anyways, here's a quick illustration trying to explain my late night ramblings.


So over a 24 hour period, there will be two cycles by each pair of pumps.
It is hard to tell in this smaller graphic but as the pulses get stronger, they also get longer.
Overlapping the two pumps for a brief time will create the random flow of whirlpools and eddies created during the tidal switch.

So the trick to simulate the lunar cycle would be to change the Max% of the pumps over 28 days.
During the full/new moon phase, the Max% would be greatest; say 80%
And during the half moon phases, the Max% would only be about 40%.

In my illustration above, the orange and blue graphs depict the power and duration of the Vortech pump. The Blue line graph depicts the time and height of the daily tide.
As the tide rushes in/out, I feel the Vortech pumps would run at the set maximum setting for that day. When the tides reach high/low tide, the pumps run at their lowest setting as the water flow begins to transition the other direction.

I have recently synched my Vortech pumps with my Apex WXM Module and Controller, so I may try to figure out a way to achieve something similar to this using the already existing EcoSmart Modes.
I am trying to think if there is a way to use the Seasonal Modes to incorporate the rising/falling maximum settings that correlate with the lunar cycle.

If Ecotech Marine would like to take this into consideration for a new EcoSmart Mode, I would be glad to assist in any way needed.

Thanks for reading through all of this.
And any additional thoughts would be greatly appreciated.​

surely you have to have your tank emptying and filling to mimic the tides and not just current. There is the increase and decrease in water pressure as the tides rise and fall to factor in

 

[norfolkgarden]

surely you have to have your tank emptying and filling to mimic the tides and not just current. There is the increase and decrease in water pressure as the tides rise and fall to factor in

Not below, say, 10 feet.
When you are scuba diving on the reef you can feel the ebb and flow of the individual waves if you are high enough. Say between -10' and -35'.
Deeper than that there is mostly just whatever current is flowing around the island.
Depends on location and height of waves where you are.

Just guessing, I don't think anyone is trying to recreate the actual surf zone to -10', with a 4' tide range.
Most of our tanks are less than 30". [emoji4]

But going a little deeper than that, it should be possible to mimic flow better than most tanks do now.

 

[stevieduk]

yea i know, i used to be a commercial diver on the oil platforms , so i had my share of waves knocking me about, but i remember a nature documentary about the great barrier reef and some corals there were high and dry at low tide and then under 20 foot of water at high tide.

 

[norfolkgarden]

Wild!
I know Nova Scotia has a crazy tide range. I think regularly 18'.
I grew up in Massachusetts.

Hawaii was just a few feet.
Chesapeake Bay (home for past 20+ years) is about 3' daily without accounting for king tides and such.

Not too familiar with other parts of the world.

 

[klp]

There was a local guy with a120 or 130 acrylic tank. He had a closed loop 8 or 10 return holes on both the left and right side alternated the flow through a SQUID. He had really impressive growth. A setup similar to that with a couple of variable speed pumps would seem to be ideal for creating something as close to a tide as possible in an aquarium (except for, of course, all those bulkhead fittings that would want to leak eventually. )

What is a Squid? Not the animal of course.

 

[klp]

This idea is over the top! I love it. Even if no appreciable results could be observed, it would be cool to be able to say you were able to do it.
Thanks for the links, I tried to find info on this subject, and struck out.
A couple of questions..
Would you need the short pulses in the alternating tides? I thought the tide itself was pretty much similar to a river coming/going- a continuous flow (that does increase/decrease relative to time), with the random flow coming from wave action, which is caused by the winds flowing onto shore. Maybe add a Gyre to your existing setup for the random flow? And have it programmed to slow down at night?
Another area I have unsuccessfully tried to find info on is the temp variances between the tides. It would seem to be that the waters being pushed up with the incoming tide would be cooler than the same water going back out with the tide. What that variance would be, I have no clue. I'm sure there would be more of a variance in a tidal flat in the middle of a sunny afternoon than there would be 20ft down on a reef at night. But again, I think that variance, however slight it may be, could possibly have an impact on coral health and growth. I would think there would be some way to program an Apex to vary the temp on a cycle, even taking into account the time of day/night.
As far as the tide in relation to bringing up/in food- have you looked into this? I know the majority of plankton migrates up at night to feed, but I would think there has to be some that is caught in the incoming tides. It wouldn't be too hard to set a dosing system to coincide with the "incoming" tide, dosing some during the day, and even more at night. I've considered setting up my next tank with.. (here comes the blasphemy) .. an under gravel filter that reverses the flow at night.
(Before anyone chimes in and derails this thread, I am not looking at it as a source of filtration, but as a source of food. My lps all go crazy any time I stir the sandbed. I figure I should be able to use this to my advantage. Not to mention, if done properly, I should be able to avoid any anaerobic zones within the bed.)
Speaking of derailing... Sorry. But this thread is the only one I've seen that seems to be thinking along the same lines as I am.
Have you posted this question over in the Neptune forum? If anyone can figure out how to accomplish this, it would be the gurus over there.

Paul B has run an undergravel filter for years with a reverse flow. Check him out.

 

[reefwiser]

What is a Squid? Not the animal of course.

Simple device use to alternate the current coming from a return pump or powerheads. In Today’s world we like to use fancy electronic controls to do a simple task.

 

[KenO]

I know this is an old thread but any updates?