Mindstream in the house!

[reef_ranch]

This is encouraging: the Mindstream reported by Mag was at 1180ppm -- lower than I want. I added 600 ml of the ESV mag solution to my approximately 400 total gallons of my system which according to ESV should raise the Mag by 10ppm. Sure enough, within a halfhour the Mindstream reported Mag at 1193!

Clearly my method and procedure has alot to be desired, but anecdotally: Cool!

 

[Bleigh]

Thank you for sharing. I'm glad setup went well and it is working fine. Do you have an additional way you can measure Alk just to see if the third reading leans towards the MindStream or Alkatronic? I guess the most important thing is stability over a magic number so maybe it doesn't matter. I ordered a MindStream yesterday and can't wait to get it. I was going to get a Trident but like some of the benefits this system offers over the Trident.

I wonder how uniform these numbers are within a tank anyways. Like, if you measured 3 different places would they all be the exact same? I wonder what a safe standard deviation is for each parameter.

 

[chicago]

Thanks for sharing.. I am waiting on mine also... this should be very interesting... especially if we can move it to our make up wage for a few hours to see where that is coming in at.. lots of ideas and uses.. I do understand that phosphate will most likely not be possible given the method used.

 

[chicago]

Question.. can you only setup onto the app and system when you have the device?

 

[reef_ranch]

Question.. can you only setup onto the app and system when you have the device?

I believe so.

 

[Crashjack]

If there isn’t a conversion from carbonate alk to total alk, there has to be some sort of “norms”. Anybody know what those are?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Oooh, I like the display and what it all monitors

 

[Bleigh]

If there isn’t a conversion from carbonate alk to total alk, there has to be some sort of “norms”. Anybody know what those are?

What is Carbonate Alkalinity?

Carbonate alkalinity means two different things: carbonate ions and corrected alkalinity. The LSI formula needs corrected alkalinity. Learn why here.

www.google.com

Total alkalinity also includes hydroxide ions. There’s a calculator on that site to calculate carbonate alkalinity. Ill look and see if it goes backwards if not, I’m sure we could develop ranges. The ranges will be specific for each ph level. May be something g we can hear map so people can quickly look and see what their levels mean.

EDIT: It’s an app and isn’t very useful for aquariums.

 

[reef_ranch]

What is Carbonate Alkalinity?

Carbonate alkalinity means two different things: carbonate ions and corrected alkalinity. The LSI formula needs corrected alkalinity. Learn why here.

www.google.com

Total alkalinity also includes hydroxide ions. There’s a calculator on that site to calculate carbonate alkalinity. Ill look and see if it goes backwards if not, I’m sure we could develop ranges. The ranges will be specific for each ph level. May be something g we can hear map so people can quickly look and see what their levels mean.

EDIT: It’s an app and isn’t very useful for aquariums.

I saw that as well. Not very helpful for us. Mindstream posted a response in a thread on the forum somewhere asking about the differences (don’t know how to link to it). I’m thinking that conversion will not be possible and I’ll just have to be content now tracking both total Alk and carbonate Alk. (No, I’m not getting rid of my Alkatronic anytime soon!)

 

[Bleigh]

So this one does a better job of explaining. And this was my argument for not measuring alkalinity when I ran freshwater. My understanding of alkalinity was that it was the pOH (percent hydroxide), which is the opposite of pH (percent hydronium). If you knew ph, you indirectly know alkalinity. And if all your alkalinity comes only From hydroxide ions, that’s true. But we necessarily have a high concentration of carbonated and bicarbonate in our water, which directly impacts alkalinity. At pH’s below 4.2, there is no hydroxide present, meaning all alkalinity or buffering capacity of the water, comes from carbonates and bicarbonates. If you’re ph is that low, there’s an issue. We want to keep our tanks much closer to a neutral ph, which means nearly equal hydronium and hydroxide ions. Even at the more desired 8.1-8.3 range, the difference in hydronium and hydroxide ions are near negligible. To repeat, if all your alkalinity came from hydroxide, there really is no reason to measure alk, if you know ph, but that’s not the case. Still, the hydroxide ion concentration gives us very little information about the buffering ability of water at our desired levels Of ph. The carbonate and bicarbonate concentrations are what will truly affect the buffering ability of the water.

Hydroxide plays very little role in telling us much about the buffering ability of water until Ph’s Start pushing beyond 8.4, which again, is not desired in our tanks. So, by taking out an extraneous value (hydroxide) we can get a much more precise and (more importantly) controllable value of alkalinity. When you want to increase alkalinity, you add Carbonate, not hydroxide ions. Corals are also uptaking carbonates, not hydroxide ions. So carbonates are really the thing shifting into the alkalinity equation.

Now here’s where I’m not certain if im coming to the correct conclusion. Because total alkalinity includes hydroxide ions, I would anticipate the buffering capacity to be greater with hydroxide ions present. In order to account for that, I’d imagine the buffering curve for only measuring carbonate alkalinity would be at an inflection point around ph of 7. Meaning, the further you move from 7, you’d expect the rate of change between total alkalinity and carbonate alkalinity to be increasing such that carbonate alkalinity would coincide with lower total carbonate at phs greater than 7. I can also make an argument for carbonate alk running lower than total alk, but I like the argument I made better. If I end up being wrong - that we expect the carbonate alk to coincide with a higher total alk, then I’ll explain the reasoning for that. (Basically it requires no normalized curve...)

Sorry for the dissertation.

Google

Search the world's information, including webpages, images, videos and more. Google has many special features to help you find exactly what you're looking for.

www.coalgeology.com

 

[Bleigh]

And I need to go to bed. But I’m putting this here in case anyone wants to read about the curves to determine New ranges we may be wanting when switching to measuring carbonate alk from total alk.

And if no one wants to do that, I will be able to find it in the morning. (sorry if it’s not useful, but it looked promising when I scrolled through it.)

Methods for Alkalinity Calculator

Methods for Alkalinity Calculator

or.water.usgs.gov

 

[vetteguy53081]

And I need to go to bed. But I’m putting this here in case anyone wants to read about the curves to determine New ranges we may be wanting when switching to measuring carbonate alk from total alk.

And if no one wants to do that, I will be able to find it in the morning. (sorry if it’s not useful, but it looked promising when I scrolled through it.)

Methods for Alkalinity Calculator

Methods for Alkalinity Calculator

or.water.usgs.gov

I need to go to bed too BUT I’m at work .... LOL

 

[Ernie C]

Wow, so happy people are getting them. I have an apex but this looks to be so much easier. no probes, calibration etc. Is anyone placing these in the sump/refufium? would it work down there and can it be fully submerged under water? I figure if you can place in a dark corner of the sump you can avoid coraline and algae growing on it.

 

[rushbattle]

Wow, so happy people are getting them. I have an apex but this looks to be so much easier. no probes, calibration etc. Is anyone placing these in the sump/refufium? would it work down there and can it be fully submerged under water? I figure if you can place in a dark corner of the sump you can avoid coraline and algae growing on it.

Yes, you can submerge them entirely. They work just fine in the sump. But if you lose your return pump, it won't likely detect an issue whereas if it is in the tank it could show O2 going down and the temperature changing if conditions warrant, as an example.

 

[ddrueckh]

I plan to put mine in my sump once I get it. I think I would still notice values change if my return pumps go out even in the sump.

 

[Halal Hotdog]

I received my Mindstream today and got it installed pretty painlessly. Here are a few picks and my initial impressions.

The unit is very well made, the magnet is able to hold it on 5/8" acrylic.

Set up was quick and painless. The instructions are simple to understand. Not much room for user error.

I have it installed in the overflow of my 340 display right now because I'm not sure how strong a wifi signal I get in my sump room. And its late, and I REALLY wanted to get this hooked up.

The discs are incredibly well packaged. They are in a round plastic case full of water which is taped shut and placed in a fully sealed black plastic bag which is in a mylar padded envelope. The packaging alone is costly.

After putting in the disk it took about a half hour or less to register the first tests on the web app. In the process I received a few email alerts that some parameters are out of the range I specified in the app. The app itself is well designed, easy to navigate and shows on one page all of the parameters. It appears to update very frequently, more than the 15 minutes I though I had read. I didn't time it so I may be wrong.

As far as accuracy and precision. I can't speak to that yet. I have an alkatronic which is reading Alk at 8.29 while the Mindstream reports it at 8.89. I know they measure alk differently, to what extent I'm not sure. There must be a conversion chart out there somewhere I'll have to find.

Oddly, I'm getting an ammonia reading of 1 or 2 ppb. I didn't expect that.

Assuming all the readings are accurate, I have to say ITS PRETTY AWESOME HAVING REAL TIME POTASSIUM, MAGNESIUM, SALINITY AND CALCIUM readings! Of the others: Alk, pH and temp I already have (but love more data) and the remaining, CO2, O2 and Ammonia I'll have to learn more about.

So far (and its early) this is a home run!

I haven't seen other posts about receiving theirs, but until I saw your post I kind of figured Mindstream was all just an elaborate scam ;Clown. Happy to see it isn't.

 

[saltyhog]

Is the app able to be used with a PC or just with a phone?

 

[ddrueckh]

Is the app able to be used with a PC or just with a phone?

I believe it is web based...not a native application. It can be used on any device.

 

[GoVols]

Don’t think phosphates are possible.

Jonas at Focustronic has wrapped up the Alkatronic and Dosetronic.

He's working on the Mastertronic as we speak, to pair up with a Alkatronic.

Mastertronic:
Cal
Mag
Nitrates
Phosphates

If Jonas says he can do it, then he can

 

[Squidmotron]

Jonas at Focustronic has wrapped up the Alkatronic and Dosetronic.

He's working on the Mastertronic as we speak, to pair up with a Alkatronic.

Mastertronic:
Cal
Mag
Nitrates
Phosphates

If Jonas says he can do it, then he can

That devices takes samples of water and adds reagents and then looks at the color. Like a person testing their water w a sample. It’s a different kind of a device.