Minimum Cost, Maximum Enjoyment Reefer 250 Build

[DIFish]

Small update after running some new tests.
Picked up a Hanna Checker Bundle with Alk,Calcium, Nitrate, and Phosphate for $100 in great condition.
Started noticing some small black specs on some of my rocks so ran all tests. API was not moving on anything but the Hanna checkers have some slight differences. As of today I am reading
7.8 dKH Alkalinity- Is it too early to start dosing to bring me up to around10?
.88 Nitrates- False positive or do I already have some bacteria doing work?
Phosphate- .26 PPM. Seems too high
Calcium- 370 PPM.
All corals except for the mushroom coral seem to be doing fine. Not sure if it is trying to move, split, or is just unhappy. Hard to tell but you can see some of the black specs building up on the rocks in the pictures.

 

[DIFish]

Another update. Getting close to 2ppm nitrate so I think I have some bacteria starting to do work. Started dosing ammonia 1ml at a time again to maintain around .5-.75 ppm. All of the corals seem fine except for my firework clove polyp. The Clove Polyp fully extends every day with all branches but is starting to turn brown towards the bottom. I suspect this is due to the ammonia levels as everything else has stayed relitively stable but would be interested to hear what others think. Besides the gsp I figured these guys would be very hardy but so far they are the only ones to have a negative reaction.

 

[DIFish]

Update on current cycle progress. Almost no nitrite and nitrate after over a week of dumping in the Tim’s one and only bacteria. What is strange is that I have seen ammonia slowly drop over time, but nothing can be measured on my other kits. I have to put in about 2ml of 1% ammonia In daily and am getting quite a bit of diatoms, some green algea is starting to grow on rocks, but my nitrate has not moved. Still sitting at just about .5 ppm ammonia, 0.25 Nitrite, .9 ppm nitrates.
I was planning on adding fish this week but am still waiting on an appreciable level of nitrates
Also witnessed some stringy things coming out of my zoas. Not sure if they are upset about the water quality or something else.

 

[bakbay]

Update on current cycle progress. Almost no nitrite and nitrate after over a week of dumping in the Tim’s one and only bacteria. What is strange is that I have seen ammonia slowly drop over time, but nothing can be measured on my other kits. I have to put in about 2ml of 1% ammonia In daily and am getting quite a bit of diatoms, some green algea is starting to grow on rocks, but my nitrate has not moved. Still sitting at just about .5 ppm ammonia, 0.25 Nitrite, .9 ppm nitrates.
I was planning on adding fish this week but am still waiting on an appreciable level of nitrates
Also witnessed some stringy things coming out of my zoas. Not sure if they are upset about the water quality or something else.

Unless you left your lights off, I believe the “ugly stage” will be upon you soon! I’ve used Dr. Tim’s Once and Only as well but since I had some softies (and they need light), it was unavoidable for me. Anyway, it came and went within two weeks so no big deal. I didn’t lose any coral frags during the cycle tho.

Sounds like your build is coming along nicely. Glad you’re keeping up with the testing! Can’t wait to see the tank thriving with corals…

 

[DIFish]

Unless you left your lights off, I believe the “ugly stage” will be upon you soon! I’ve used Dr. Tim’s Once and Only as well but since I had some softies (and they need light), it was unavoidable for me. Anyway, it came and went within two weeks so no big deal. I didn’t lose any coral frags during the cycle tho.

Sounds like your build is coming along nicely. Glad you’re keeping up with the testing! Can’t wait to see the tank thriving with corals…

Unfortunately I have a few softies and LPS in the tank so the lights are on and things are changing fast. I have not lost any coral yet but there are slowly becoming signs of stress. Hoping to have the cycle completed so I can do a water change and get some parameters a little more in check. As soon as my tank is converting ammonia at a decent rate I have some utility fish in order and will be adding pods and a light CuC to deal with the nasties.

 

[JSmith]

Unfortunately I have a few softies and LPS in the tank so the lights are on and things are changing fast. I have not lost any coral yet but there are slowly becoming signs of stress. Hoping to have the cycle completed so I can do a water change and get some parameters a little more in check. As soon as my tank is converting ammonia at a decent rate I have some utility fish in order and will be adding pods and a light CuC to deal with the nasties.

You can add phyto as well to help feed the pods and help with the cycle.

 

[BetterJake]

Unfortunately I have a few softies and LPS in the tank so the lights are on and things are changing fast. I have not lost any coral yet but there are slowly becoming signs of stress. Hoping to have the cycle completed so I can do a water change and get some parameters a little more in check. As soon as my tank is converting ammonia at a decent rate I have some utility fish in order and will be adding pods and a light CuC to deal with the nasties.

Regarding CUC, Urchins are fantastic! I picked up a couple Tuxedo Urchins from Algae Barn and they have been mowing down algae as I go through the ugly phase. They are reef safe as well and you can put hats on them! Just keep in mind, if you run out of algae you'll likely have to supplement their feeding with some sort of algae food, like nori.

I also ordered a couple galaxy pods and phyto from algae barn as well. Since I do not have a refugium I'll likely have to replenish every month or so.

Tuxedo Urchins

Pods & Phyto Combo

 

[DIFish]

Regarding CUC, Urchins are fantastic! I picked up a couple Tuxedo Urchins from Algae Barn and they have been mowing down algae as I go through the ugly phase. They are reef safe as well and you can put hats on them! Just keep in mind, if you run out of algae you'll likely have to supplement their feeding with some sort of algae food, like nori.

I also ordered a couple galaxy pods and phyto from algae barn as well. Since I do not have a refugium I'll likely have to replenish every month or so.

Tuxedo Urchins

Pods & Phyto Combo

I really do like the urchins. I am trying to plan a clean up crew that is rimless compatible but also will play well with the Yellow Coris Wrasse and flame Hawkfish I have on order. So far the list is pretty small. Will fish really hunt down every last pod? Or can I add them once and just have a small number of survivors who hide in the rocks?

 

[DIFish]

Trying not to lose track of my budget but small things are really starting to add up. I have been making purchases of things I plan on using later when I see good deals. I think I included everything but I am sure there is something missing.
2x- 1600Mg all for reef powder
BRS .8 Carbon 128 Oz
Sensye Reef monitor with Wifi
Biolux Ceramic 4 Pack
Coral Ammino 9oz
Microbacter 7 17oz
Reef Roids
Seachem Alert Badge
Plastic Clips- for lid below
1/4inch Plexiglass- For lid below
Various fish food
$360 Combined
I thought these were good deals but adding this to my total spent so far has me at $1785….And that is not even including the fish.
Still left to purchase are fish, corals, and the remainder of a dosing setup. Staying inside $3000 for the first 2 years is going to be difficult.

 

[helmsreef]

I like this experiment and even though its against the norm, its interesting to me. Although not adding coral right off the bat probably would of kept your budget down low and a majority of the things you have bought are for sustaining those 7 frags. You could of realistically set it up and dosed some ammonia with bacteria, let it cycle for a month and added some fish and allow the biome in the tank to elevate and mature. I'm hopeful for you but its up hill

 

[DIFish]

I like this experiment and even though its against the norm, its interesting to me. Although not adding coral right off the bat probably would of kept your budget down low and a majority of the things you have bought are for sustaining those 7 frags. You could of realistically set it up and dosed some ammonia with bacteria, let it cycle for a month and added some fish and allow the biome in the tank to elevate and mature. I'm hopeful for you but its up hill

Agree! I was hoping to get a “head start” on growing some frags so that they would fill out faster, but the fluctuating parameters have stalled all growth and keeping the tank habitable for the corals seems like it added time to my cycle and is going to make a major ugly stage. (Lots of good suggestions on other ways to achieve this like a drag tank were suggested to me) I watched some of the biome cycling on BRS and might end up sending my water in for testing around the 6 month mark to see how it fairs compared to theirs. Some of my purchases are definitely long term; there is no way I need all for reef or some of the other things I have yet, but when the time comes I won’t have to pay full price! The Seneye was definitely not needed, but I am interested in tracking my ammonia levels extremely close as I plan on adding a larger than “normal” amount of fish at once.

 

[BetterJake]

I really do like the urchins. I am trying to plan a clean up crew that is rimless compatible but also will play well with the Yellow Coris Wrasse and flame Hawkfish I have on order. So far the list is pretty small. Will fish really hunt down every last pod? Or can I add them once and just have a small number of survivors who hide in the rocks?

To be honest, I'm not sure. My clown and cardinal fish were having a blast when I poured them in. However, pods should typically cling to the glass and sand bed as well, I would assume that would lead to some of them surviving?

There is also some anecdotal evidence that phyto dosing can out-compete nusinace algae.

I see that you watched the BRS series, I did as well, and I'm also trying to follow the same path, multiple paths of redundancy; utilitarian fish, pods, phyto, MB clean, CUC, etc..

The one thing I did not follow is not turning the lights on for 4 months, that's just going to delay the ugly stage.

Starting with dry rock, the ugly stage will be close to impossible to avoid, but I think a combination of the above and good husbandry can make it manageable.

 

[BetterJake]

I really do like the urchins. I am trying to plan a clean up crew that is rimless compatible but also will play well with the Yellow Coris Wrasse and flame Hawkfish I have on order. So far the list is pretty small. Will fish really hunt down every last pod? Or can I add them once and just have a small number of survivors who hide in the rocks?

Good timing, I saw a bunch of pods all over the glass today! I assume they are all over the rocks as well. Sure does seem like they will be fine. I'm dosing about 15ml of phyto per day, that's helping the population, combined with the algae in the tank, looks like they are fed and doing well.

 

[DIFish]

Good timing, I saw a bunch of pods all over the glass today! I assume they are all over the rocks as well. Sure does seem like they will be fine. I'm dosing about 15ml of phyto per day, that's helping the population, combined with the algae in the tank, looks like they are fed and doing well.

Good to know! I like the idea of pods but would hate to have to dose monthly/quarterly. I thought about a refugium but don’t think I have the space in my sump. Does the type of pods matter? I was looking at algea barn and they have multiple types. Figured I would just get one of the mixed packs.

 

[BetterJake]

Good to know! I like the idea of pods but would hate to have to dose monthly/quarterly. I thought about a refugium but don’t think I have the space in my sump. Does the type of pods matter? I was looking at algea barn and they have multiple types. Figured I would just get one of the mixed packs.

I went with the galaxy pods, I liked that it had a combination of different types.

 

[DIFish]

My initial stocking list is arriving tomorrow so I am prepping the tank. My goal was to be able to process about 4ppm total ammonia on an api kit in 24 hours before I add them all in. Reading on my seachem checker and Sensye today showed 0.5 ppm real ammonia which is a little high for my liking so I did a 50% water change. Api kits below are from 8 hours apart. I took a reading this morning and did a 50% change, then tested again 8 hours later. To my surprise the nitrite and nitrate actually went up even with the water change.

 

[AFHokie]

I'm very interested in following this thread. I started everything in my tank a bit faster than many on this forum but still nothing like as fast as this one. I also kept a reef tank about a decade ago so thought I knew a little more than the average first time reefer....it didn't help as much as I thought it would.

As much as I constantly test, and watch my tank like a hawk, it has not been without issue in the 6 months it's been up. Maturity and stability go far beyond just monitoring your water and dosing properly. There will be things that just happen as life grows. Cycling will drop alkalinity, algae blooms coming and going can drastically change nutrient export, dinos will appear for no apparent reason and cause all kinds of problems, etc. Not at all saying this approach here is not doable, it's been show it is, but each tank grows differently so there is a lot of risk.

The last phot shows elevated NH. Are you still about to add all those fish with that level of ammonia? Also, if you have Nitrites in the water the Nitrate reading will be wrong. You can show nitrates when there are none if you have nitrites.

 

[BetterJake]

My initial stocking list is arriving tomorrow so I am prepping the tank. My goal was to be able to process about 4ppm total ammonia on an api kit in 24 hours before I add them all in. Reading on my seachem checker and Sensye today showed 0.5 ppm real ammonia which is a little high for my liking so I did a 50% water change. Api kits below are from 8 hours apart. I took a reading this morning and did a 50% change, then tested again 8 hours later. To my surprise the nitrite and nitrate actually went up even with the water change.

Adding six fish in one go? That a massive bioload increase all at once. Any concerns with that?

 

[DIFish]

I'm very interested in following this thread. I started everything in my tank a bit faster than many on this forum but still nothing like as fast as this one. I also kept a reef tank about a decade ago so thought I knew a little more than the average first time reefer....it didn't help as much as I thought it would.

As much as I constantly test, and watch my tank like a hawk, it has not been without issue in the 6 months it's been up. Maturity and stability go far beyond just monitoring your water and dosing properly. There will be things that just happen as life grows. Cycling will drop alkalinity, algae blooms coming and going can drastically change nutrient export, dinos will appear for no apparent reason and cause all kinds of problems, etc. Not at all saying this approach here is not doable, it's been show it is, but each tank grows differently so there is a lot of risk.

The last phot shows elevated NH. Are you still about to add all those fish with that level of ammonia? Also, if you have Nitrites in the water the Nitrate reading will be wrong. You can show nitrates when there are none if you have nitrites.

Great first point. With the wealth of information on the internet it is easy to feel confident about what you are doing and that nothing can go wrong. While I can say I have done my research and due diligence, there is still every chance that I fail for not following the rules by the book. I am obviously hoping that I am right, but if things go south I will have to rethink my strategy and timeline. I hope people don’t take my posts as “best practice”, but rather how fast can you possibly setup a reef tank with current knowledge. I will keep updating either way to give a full story, so if my methods don’t work out you can link this to others who want to skip the wait too.

The elevated ammonia Which API tests is not free ammonia and is mostly harmless in my reading, but any amount of free ammonia can easily kill fish so I will be doing a last water change as needed to get this below .02. As for Nitrite to Nitrate numbers, Nitrite is harmless to saltwater fish in anything except extreme volumes. So even if my Nitrates are minimal all I am really conserved about here is the ammonia going down consistently. There is definitely some risk involved, but I am monitoring quite literally by the minute and am prepared to do as many water changes as needed for the safety or my fish.

Adding six fish in one go? That a massive bioload increase all at once. Any concerns with that?

I thought so at first too, but upon reading most peoples reasoning I changed my mind. Most will say don’t add many fish at once for the elevated ammonia levels. Traditional method is wait to process 2ppm ammonia overnight, then add 2 hardy fish or so and wait so the ammonia can be processed. 2ppm ammonia is an interesting number to me, mainly because almost every reef system you see does not produce nearly this much per day. When setting up a previous freshwater system many people gauge needed biological filtration by the weight of fish, or the expected feeding amount per day. Even in agriculture systems with intense fish loads, they don’t go over this amount by a lot. I am not quite confident in my own math skills, but based on some previous research and a few posts I have estimated that each sub 4inch fish can produce a max of about 2-5mg/ day ammonia. Extrapolating for my 65gallons on the high end, that is around .02ppm ammonia per fish on standard feeding. Even a fully stock 10 fish system would produce ballpark .2ppm ammonia per day, .54 ppm nitrite, or 2 Nitrate per day in this example. If you really needed all 2ppm ammonia processing power, you would be looking at almost +20 nitrate per day in an average system. If your system is producing that much nitrate every 24 hours or you think my math sucks, please let me know so that I can figure out where I went wrong. Would also be interested to see what anymore who has done similar research before thinks.

 

[DIFish]

24 Hour livestock update-
I was expecting 6 quarantined fish and received 7…. More on that below.
All fish arrived alive, most looking healthy and alert. The Flame Hawk and one of the yellow coris wrasses looked a little lethargic and stressed. It looks like they accidentally shipped 2 of the wrasses, not sure what to do with the 2nd long term or if they will get along. Temperature acclimated them and dropped everyone in. Both wrasses immediately dove into the sand bed while everyone else hid for a bit. Waited to turn on the lights until today and most seem to be adjusting well. The Flame Hawk was showing a little body discoloration early this morning but not sure if that is just because of sleeping. He is still swimming frantically up and down the tank corners, but everyone else is doing well. I attempted a small feeding and the wrasses and royal gramma seemed interested, nobody else noticed. I plan on giving it about a week and adding a small CuC and some more corals. I am paying close attention to ammonia levels but have seen no increase. Will upload some pictures once they are all a little less shy.