MOLYBDENUM?

kurtp

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I am trying to resurrect a formerly nice reef tank that I neglected for a few years and in doing so found an old and rusted piece of a hose clamp buried in the layers of scale in the sump. THinking that that would definitely contribute to the acro frag losses I have had I ordered some Triton ICP test kits and did three 40% water changes (RPM mix) spaced two days apart while waiting for the kit to arrive. I just got the results from Triton and was a little surprised to see no unwanted heavy metals in the water but I am a bit confused about a few of the parameters and wonder if I could get some input if there is anything I need to jump on based on this report. (I don't know if molybdenum is part of the alloy used to make hose clamps but really can't think of any other source for the elevated levels. Are they high enough for me to do some interventions, and if so, what. Also I wonder if I should start dosing iodine since it is completely absent in my system - I have never done any dosing other than BRS two part Ca/ALk/Mg in this tank that is almost 10 years old.
Thanks for any help, any advice is appreciated,
Kurt


I can only figure out how to get PDF form of the report to paste but will provide a link below to he URL if anyone prefers to see it in the nice Triton format with the alert flags

Kurt's Reef Tank (21752A)
Unwanted heavy metals
Element Analysis Setpoint Deviation Warning lamp Gallons
Hg 0.00 µg/l 0 µg/l -0.10 120
Se 0.00 µg/l 0 µg/l -0.10 120
Cd 0.00 µg/l 0 µg/l -0.10 120
Sn 0.00 µg/l 0 µg/l -0.10 120
Sb 0.00 µg/l 0 µg/l -0.10 120
As 0.00 µg/l 0 µg/l -0.10 120
Al 0.00 µg/l 2.00 µg/l -2.00 120
Pb 0.00 µg/l 0 µg/l -0.10 120
Ti 0.00 µg/l 0 µg/l -0.10 120
Cu 0.00 µg/l 0 µg/l -0.10 120
La 0.00 µg/l 0 µg/l -0.10 120
Sc 0.00 µg/l 0 µg/l -0.10 120
W 0.00 µg/l 0 µg/l -0.10 120
Macro-Elements
Element Analysis Setpoint Deviation Warning lamp Gallons
Na 10093.00 mg/l 10700.00 mg/l -607.00 120
Ca 351.00 mg/l 440.00 mg/l -89.00 120
Mg 1348.00 mg/l 1370.00 mg/l -22.00 120
K 388.00 mg/l 400.00 mg/l -12.00 120
Br 42.00 mg/l 62.00 mg/l -20.00 120
B 5.84 mg/l 4.50 mg/l 1.34 120
Sr 3.44 mg/l 8.00 mg/l -4.56 120
S 737.00 mg/l 900.00 mg/l -163.00 120
www.triton-lab.de 1/3
Kurt's Reef Tank (21752A)
Li-Group
Element Analysis Setpoint Deviation Warning lamp Gallons
Li 84.00 µg/l 200.00 µg/l -116.00 120
Ni 0.00 µg/l 5.00 µg/l -5.00 120
Mo 27.00 µg/l 12.00 µg/l 15.00 120
I-Group
Element Analysis Setpoint Deviation Warning lamp Gallons
V 0.00 µg/l 1.20 µg/l -1.20 120
Zn 0.00 µg/l 4.00 µg/l -4.00 120
Mn 0.00 µg/l 2.00 µg/l -2.00 120
I 0.00 µg/l 60.00 µg/l -60.00 120
Fe-Group
Element Analysis Setpoint Deviation Warning lamp Gallons
Cr 0.00 µg/l 0 µg/l -0.10 120
Co 0.00 µg/l 0 µg/l -0.10 120
Fe 0.00 µg/l 0 µg/l -0.10 120
Ba-Group
Element Analysis Setpoint Deviation Warning lamp Gallons
Ba 6.29 µg/l 10.00 µg/l -3.71 120
Be 0.00 µg/l 0 µg/l -0.10 120
Si-Group
Element Analysis Setpoint Deviation Warning lamp Gallons
Si 96.00 µg/l 100.00 µg/l -4.00 120
www.triton-lab.de 2/3
Kurt's Reef Tank (21752A)
Nutrient-Group
Element Analysis Setpoint Deviation Warning lamp Gallons
P 6.65 µg/l 6.00 µg/l 0.65 120
PO4 0.020 mg/l 0.018 mg/l 0.002 120

https://www.triton-lab.de/en/showroom/aquarium/auswertung-b/icp-oes/60809/
 

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Randy Holmes-Farley

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I don't think the molybdenum is high enough to be a problem, and may be coming from the clamp. Molybdenum is certainly used in many steel alloys, especially ones trying to reduce corrosion.

I'd boost calcium.
 
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kurtp

kurtp

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Thanks, Randy. I have slowly brought the calcium up to 420. I've been reefing for over 10 years, but I never have done any dosing of trace metals/elements, just calcium alkalinity and magnesium (BRS two part) and water changes. Can you recommend a good resource where I can learn the basics about dosing trace metals/elements?
 
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Its pointing to your salinity being a little lowish if you plug it into here : https://monrecifamoi.saulme.fr/salinite/elements_compute_salinity.php
Its coming back at 32.5 ppt / 1.022 , sticks might be complaining a bit from that


Thanks for the heads up 2una, I'm at work and the browser wont let me access the link you provided, but I'll check it out when I get home tonight. I watch my SG failrly closely with my hand held refractometer and recorded that (and other parameters) when I collected the triton specimen and specific gravity via refractometer was 1.024 at the time (which is right where I usually keep it). I am careful to 'zero out' the refractometer with RODI before using it, but I suppose there could be some inaccuracy with the device. Once I run the numbers in the calculator in the link you provided I'll probably bump up the SG a couple points to accommodate the discrepancy.
 
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kurtp

kurtp

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yeah, I get the same calculated SG, thanks for the link 2una. I'll adjust my salinity up a few points. I guess a good way would be to use fresh saltwater mix instead of RODI via the ATO until I hit the target? That seems like it would be a steady, gradual adjustment rather than one high salinity mix water change.....
 

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Sounds like a good plan, good luck with things there
 
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Thanks. I need to look into finding a calibration fluid for my refractometer at the target salinity. apparently zeroing with RODI isn't cutting it
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Randy Holmes-Farley

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Thanks, Randy. I have slowly brought the calcium up to 420. I've been reefing for over 10 years, but I never have done any dosing of trace metals/elements, just calcium alkalinity and magnesium (BRS two part) and water changes. Can you recommend a good resource where I can learn the basics about dosing trace metals/elements?

I don't really know of a good, all encompassing discussion of trace element addition, but in a case where most things are undetectable, a mixture from a reef company (or a DIY) is a fine way to go. :)
 
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kurtp

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Thanks for the link, Randy. I'll mix up a batch of calibration standard and see how accurate my refractometer is at the target salinity. (Only down side is that I hate Diet Coke and now I have to drink two liters of the stuff;Vomit).

I checked my reef cabinet in the garage and found a bottle of Kent Marine Essential Elements. It must be over 10 years old as I bought a bunch of additives in the early stages of my reef keeping, but soon decided they were probably all snake oil so didn't use them and just went with regular water changes. Ignorance was bliss, I guess, but now that ICP testing is available I see that it may be time to change my thinking and start dosing. Kent's ingredients contain many of the elements my Triton test showed were low, but also contains molybdenum, which was elevated in my tank. My guess is that it was high from the piece of hose clamp which I have removed followed by several water changes so I am going to assume (never a problem when reefing, right?) that the moly be danged has come down. Not sure if elements would degrade sitting in a cupboard for ten years so I'll get a fresh bottle.

Thanks again for your help, you are a great resource,

Kurt
 

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Dr. Holmes-Farley, I'm having the opposite problem, with a molybdenum level of 4.96 of the Ati icp recommended 11.03. Also, iodine is 34.43 of the ideal 59.73. They've recommended dosing - .09ml iodine for two days, 1.08ml molybdenum for two days. I've emailed them for further clarification on the dosing instructions. My question is, with no reliable molybdenum test kit on the market (that I've been able to find), how can I safely dose, and given these levels, should I be dosing at all? @Randy Holmes-Farley
 

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Dr. Holmes-Farley, I'm having the opposite problem, with a molybdenum level of 4.96 of the Ati icp recommended 11.03. Also, iodine is 34.43 of the ideal 59.73. They've recommended dosing - .09ml iodine for two days, 1.08ml molybdenum for two days. I've emailed them for further clarification on the dosing instructions. My question is, with no reliable molybdenum test kit on the market (that I've been able to find), how can I safely dose, and given these levels, should I be dosing at all? @Randy Holmes-Farley
You're better off dosing iodide daily as opposed to a big one time correction dose(s) of iodine. Seachem reef iodide is very simple to use. Dose one or two drops a day per 100g and you should be safe.
If you really want to explore the world of trace elements, then you may wasn't to check out reef moonshiners?
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Dr. Holmes-Farley, I'm having the opposite problem, with a molybdenum level of 4.96 of the Ati icp recommended 11.03. Also, iodine is 34.43 of the ideal 59.73. They've recommended dosing - .09ml iodine for two days, 1.08ml molybdenum for two days. I've emailed them for further clarification on the dosing instructions. My question is, with no reliable molybdenum test kit on the market (that I've been able to find), how can I safely dose, and given these levels, should I be dosing at all? @Randy Holmes-Farley

I dosed iodine for years, and saw nothing useful compared to when I did not dose.

There are not any useful test kits for any trace elements in seawater. I'd just try experimenting with one or a mix of trace elements and see if anything seems different. There is no magic number that is good vs not good.
 

ReefRy

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Thank you, once again, for easing my mind. I feel much better letting nature do its thing rather than fix what isn't broken. :)
 

MinNateSota

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Thanks. I need to look into finding a calibration fluid for my refractometer at the target salinity. apparently zeroing with RODI isn't cutting it
You’re supposed to use distilled water to zero your refractometer
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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You’re supposed to use distilled water to zero your refractometer

While there are some refractometers that must be calibrated with pure fresh water (such as the Milwaukee electronic one), most are best calibrated with seawater, and all should be checked with seawater (IMO).

One issue is that MANY refractometers sold to hobbyists are not intended for seawater, but for brine (NaCl) solutions. Those types will necessarily be incorrect if used for seawater and calibrated with pure fresh water while they will be correct if calibrated using a seawater standard.
 

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