Most Coral "Names" are Mean Nothing Guys... Beyond Scientific Name it's Purely Made Up for Marketing

[Dara E]

Ok, a couple things here...i agree with you on one point and disagree on another. You can't simply go by scientific name for multiple reasons. Two that instantly come to mind are the fact that corals are incredibly difficult to identify at the species level. Furthermore, as you pointed out, these are color morphs/genetic variations among the same species which are given different names (in the scientific community this is referred to as phenotypic plasticity).
Where i disagree is where you say that there should be some sort of registry. Vendors do not want that. That would make it impossible for them to come up with absurd slight variations and claim them by a new made up name.
Lastly, in regards to the natural geographical distribution, while i see what you're getting at i have to partially disagree about how relevant that really is after many years in captivity. This is partly why so many people try to avoid maricultured corals and wild collected corals (they have differing requirements in regards to both water and light parameters).

I hear you on the vendors.

The registry is just a pipe dream for me. I have been trying to collect different strains of GSP but often see the same ones labeled under different names. It would be helpful to have a go-to online registry with submitted information that we as a hobby have collected that includes genus name, AKAs, vendors that may carry that coral, etc.

The point I made about noting where a coral was collected isn't for cultural requirements, but more about identification. If we can figure out that the Weeping Willow was collected a far distance from other long-polyp toadstools, then it would help support whether these corals are genetically distinct. As in they are not fragmented from each other or come from the same colony. Thus it would be fair to classify them under two different trade names.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I hear you on the vendors.

The registry is just a pipe dream for me. I have been trying to collect different strains of GSP but often see the same ones labeled under different names. It would be helpful to have a go-to online registry with submitted information that we as a hobby have collected that includes genus name, AKAs, vendors that may carry that coral, etc.

The point I made about noting where a coral was collected isn't for cultural requirements, but more about identification. If we can figure out that the Weeping Willow was collected a far distance from other long-polyp toadstools, then it would help support whether these corals are genetically distinct. As in they are not fragmented from each other or come from the same colony. Thus it would be fair to classify them under two different trade names.

Ok...i see what you're getting at...but just because they're from a different colony may mean they have genetic variations but trade names are aimed at phenotypic variations not genotypic variations. What i mean by that is after corals spawn releasing their gametes the settled larvae may be genetically distinct, however, if they look identical to the parent colonies they won't be given a different trade name (and why would they if they're indistinguishable from other colonies after importation?)...just thinking. I do understand what you're point is i believe and it's not a bad one as long as there are phenotypic variations which are what calls for a ridiculous name to be given to the same species 20 times over.

 

[BeanAnimal]

The problem with scientific names is even the taxonomists have a difficult time differentiating which species is which. Can we even figure out which species the Sarcophyton in our tanks belong to? It is very unscientific to guess or have laypeople guess what species their Sarcophyton might be. For zoas, how do you address the diverse array of color morphs for one species?

I think these "silly names" would be appropriate if we as a hobby can set up a registry sort of like horticulturalists have with plants (recognized plant cultivars are often registered by an organization). The registry would provide information on the origin of that coral, their unique characteristics, and maybe even other helpful information.

Also, it would help if hobbyists and coral vendors would respect the provenance of where the coral came from. That is to provide information on where the original specimen was collected (Grube's gorgonian comes to mind) or which wholesaler they obtained it from. So that way we aren't asking if the real weeping willow would please stand up.

A name is a name, scientific or silly, the issue is that corals are not easily identified no matter what their name is. The same base coral may be sold with 20 silly names and look differently as it is tagged and propagated along the way. A coral may come from the same reef to two different wholesalers and end with two ‘original’ silly names.

Compounding the issues is the false claims of ‘rarity’ based on name, not actual coral.

Have fun with your names…. I put coral in my aquarium and watch it grow. I do t care what it is named or who named it.

 

[Roatan Reef]

At Reefpalooza a few vendors had stuff like....Double cross bred neon galaxy space invader cosmic pixie dust unicorn glow in the dark ultra rare goniopora....a tiny tiny frag was $500.

Imagine buying that, getting home and placing it then it dies a week or days later..


Thats a no for me dog!!

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

At Reefpalooza a few vendors had stuff like....Doble cross bred neon galaxy space invader pixie dust unicorn glow in the dark ultra rate goniopora....a tiny tiny frag was $500.

Imagine buying that, getting home and placing it then it dies a week or days later..


Thats a no for me dog!!

I hate to play devil's advocate for a second but you can post a dry dog turn for sale and say its the most unique and special dry dog turn on the planet. Should the seller feel guilty for offering the dry turd for sale? Honestly it's the buyer who made a simply less than genius choice in the purchase imo.

 

[elysics]

Honestly, people don't get what those names are for.

If you see a picture somewhere online, or see a coral in someone's tank, and you go "I NEED to have that", but there are not frags available then and there, then you need a name, identification number, cultivar origin, whatever. Especially with zoas.

Taking the torch example, if you don't care whether some streak is green or blue or red or brown or gold, then just pick whatever is cheapest. If you Do care, because you already have the others, then you need a name.

With acros in particular, unless you are buying whole colonies, you are buying a promise of what it is going to look like in the future, which is much more meaningful when you have a name that you can look up.

"but it's going to look different under t5": Well buy from t5 vendors then and look at t5 pictures. Or don't use t5 if you want to have what's on the led pictures. No one forces you to buy t5s, noone forces you to buy led corals

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Honestly, people don't get what those names are for.

If you see a picture somewhere online, or see a coral in someone's tank, and you go "I NEED to have that", but there are not frags available then and there, then you need a name, identification number, cultivar origin, whatever. Especially with zoas.

Taking the torch example, if you don't care whether some streak is green or blue or red or brown or gold, then just pick whatever is cheapest. If you Do care, because you already have the others, then you need a name.

With acros in particular, unless you are buying whole colonies, you are buying a promise of what it is going to look like in the future, which is much more meaningful when you have a name that you can look up.

"but it's going to look different under t5": Well buy from t5 vendors then and look at t5 pictures. Or don't use t5 if you want to have what's on the led pictures. No one forces you to buy t5s, noone forces you to buy led corals

I think there's a middle ground. Like the previous poster, i agree with part of what your saying and disagree elsewhere.

When you say "people don't get what those names are for" are you referring to the scientific names or trade names?
I agree with what you're saying regarding the zoa's... as for the torch example, you said that if you care about the intricacies of the torches you need a name. Why? Wouldn't you be looking right at them before purchasing? Perhaps by far the most popular name for the color variations you want is "Super Ultra Indo Gold" for example but when you walk into your LFS they call it something else even MORE exotic sounding...it's the same torch with a different name. In that scenario how would knowing the most popular name help? Irregardless though you are looking at them...right? The name means nothing.

Regarding the acro frags, what you're buying isn't a guarantee of what it'll grow into...your buying a promise it came from the mother colony that looks a certain way. I don't think many shops would make the claim yours will look anything like the mother colony tbh.

 

[elysics]

Why? Wouldn't you be looking right at them before purchasing?

Thats where the point of them looking different under different conditions come in. How they look *now* in the shoptank, especially if the lighting isn't as good, or you only get pictures online, is less of a predictor of how they are going to look in your tank or under particular conditions, than a name.

Even more so with acros. A brown acro nub without a name can be whatever. A brown acro nub with a name, you can look up how that's going to look under t5, how under led, how in low nutrients how in high nutrients, etc. You can get exactly the same thing elsewhere, even if they suck at coloring things up or suck at taking photos. assuming you don't pick scammers.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Thats where the point of them looking different under different conditions come in. How they look *now* in the shoptank, especially if the lighting isn't as good, or you only get pictures online, is less of a predictor of how they are going to look in your tank or under particular conditions, than a name.

Even more so with acros. A brown acro nub without a name can be whatever. A brown acro nub with a name, you can look up how that's going to look under t5, how under led, how in low nutrients how in high nutrients, etc. You can get exactly the same thing elsewhere, even if they suck at coloring things up or suck at taking photos. assuming you don't pick scammers.

I see what you're getting at...then again, is a $500 designer frag worth $500 if it's less vibrant or something along those lines? Not really...I'm sure plenty of "designer" corals with ridiculous names and even crazier prices would not be identifiable by a majority of people as what they were recognized as on day 1...you could come up with a totally different name and not a single person would dispute it if they were unaware of what it was originally sold as

 

[fish farmer]

I’ve seen people show receipts before as proof of purchase. Otherwise it’s just a lot of trusting what people say.

It does matter to me if lineage can be traced back. I don’t want something fresh from the ocean being called by a known trade name with identical colors that will have less chance of holding the colors and more chance of dying or changing color.

I understand these corals all came from the ocean and there wasn’t just one unique colony harvested. This is what leads to multiple vendors having likely the same coral with different trade names. For example CC Pink Highlighter same as MCC Prom Queen. But both are considered aquacultured at this point.

I'm a data guy by trade and like knowing the history. Where did your live rock come from? The ocean...I know for some that answer wouldn't be acceptable.

I'm more inclined now to know the lineage removed from the sea, like how long it has been cultured and where. Since cultured corals seem to do better than fresh wild stuff, having years in captivity at coral farm X could help in determining that what you are buying is more conditioned than something chopped last year and grown out frags from the wild donor.

I'm more inclined to buy corals from certain vendors that have aquacultured corals that they have been growing for years. But yes, the super rare OG purple favia does give a chuckle.

 

[elysics]

I see what you're getting at...then again, is a $500 designer frag worth $500 if it's less vibrant or something along those lines? Not really...I'm sure plenty of "designer" corals with ridiculous names and even crazier prices would not be identifiable by a majority of people as what they were recognized as on day 1...you could come up with a totally different name and not a single person would dispute it if they were unaware of what it was originally sold as

First off, no coral is a designer coral, except if someone actively interferes with the corals' genetics in some meaningful way. People that call their stuff that should feel ashamed.

As for whether a frag for 500 is worth 500, that can have several reasons. Either it just grows really slow and is actually rare, or you pay for the privilege of being the first to have something cool and being able to brag to all your rich friends that you have something they don't. For that purpose, 500 is cheap. Whether you need that purpose in your life, probably not, but neither do you need a Ferrari. But that's how boutique shops and boutique prices work in general, you don't just pay for the thing, you pay for the feeling, for the way the sellers treat you, for the prestige, etc. You can look at that as someone fleecing some suckers, or you can look at it as them paying money they have anyway to have a bit of fun and feel good and happy.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

First off, no coral is a designer coral, except if someone actively interferes with the corals' genetics in some meaningful way. People that call their stuff that should feel ashamed.

As for whether a frag for 500 is worth 500, that can have several reasons. Either it just grows really slow and is actually rare, or you pay for the privilege of being the first to have something cool and being able to brag to all your rich friends that you have something they don't. For that purpose, 500 is cheap. Whether you need that purpose in your life, probably not, but neither do you need a Ferrari. But that's how boutique shops and boutique prices work in general, you don't just pay for the thing, you pay for the feeling, for the way the sellers treat you, for the prestige, etc. You can look at that as someone fleecing some suckers, or you can look at it as them paying money they have anyway to have a bit of fun and feel good and happy.

I'm not saying anything bad about the sellers...they can charge whatever people are willing to pay... perhaps i misused the term "designer" by accident. I don't think the meaning of what i said was completely lost however. Your last post wasn't regarding the names in any way though which was the focus of the post. And again, if people will pay 500 for the most common frag in the hobby, that's what it will cost. There doesn't need to be any logical reason at all honestly.

 

[ScubaFish802]

Reef Builders has been preaching this topic for a while - https://reefbuilders.com/2016/06/04/the-coral-name-game/
We reefers are 'the other side of the coin' whereas they can make up all the names they want if we continue to enable them by opening up the wallet to every 'master', 'dragon', 'gold', you get it lol

 

[PlumbTuckered]

I love the post titles that ask " Please help me ID which Zoa I have". They are ALL Zoas, just different colors.

Yes, it is sensational marketing... thats all ther eis in the name.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Surprised this thread randomly popped up again but i think it's an interesting topic to hear opinions on.

 

[elysics]

I love the post titles that ask " Please help me ID which Zoa I have". They are ALL Zoas, just different colors.

Yes, it is sensational marketing... thats all ther eis in the name.

Yeah, but if you want to sell them on, telling people "they are these colors, whatever" won't have many interested. If you have the correct name, you don't even need your own picture to sell them. And better to ask for a second opinion than to accidently scam others with the wrong name. If you want to keep a list so you don't buy (as many...) duplicates, names are helpful. If you want to feel extra happy about your new pet, a name is helpful.

If you are a collector in the true sense of the word, categorizing and sorting and naming is half the fun of the hobby, whether you are collecting stamps, guns, zoas, plants, autograms, cards, cars, whatever.

 

[HB AL]

I rarely by online with all the lfs's in SoCal but I'm not bothered by certain names as its easier to see the same coral at my lfs's for half the price of the same coral online and makes it easier to identify rather than getting all scientific with the species. It is pure comedy looking online at the same coral online at various websites with different made up names and buying the exact same coral locally for half or more depending on what online store is charging. Plus the local stuff is easily twice the size of the same coral online.

 

[Reefthedayaway]

"ULTRA" is the name that has least meaning off all. Its only "ULTRA" in supreme conditions. Bring it home to your tank that hasn't got them supreme conditions it will lose its "ULTRA" status quite quickly & look like a 2 bob frag, on the other hand if your tank has them supreme conditions you have got aa pile of coral that is super bright, then why waste your on a rip off? Get the 2 bob frag & it will colour up nicely, saving yourself a fortune. Probably not geared towards the more financially stable of us but for those looking super bright coral, get your water, light & flow 100%
Follow me for more financial tips. Don't follow for reef keeping expertise as my tank looks like crap

 

[Opus]

I love the post titles that ask " Please help me ID which Zoa I have". They are ALL Zoas, just different colors.

Yes, it is sensational marketing... thats all ther eis in the name.

It wasn't always that way. We had a local zoa fanatic talk at our club a few years back and he went over a bunch of zoa names and why that particular zoa was given the name. That was before every retailer started slapping their own made-up names on the same zoas.

 

[Opus]

"ULTRA" is the name that has least meaning off all. Its only "ULTRA" in supreme conditions. Bring it home to your tank that hasn't got them supreme conditions it will lose its "ULTRA" status quite quickly & look like a 2 bob frag, on the other hand if your tank has them supreme conditions you have got aa pile of coral that is super bright, then why waste your on a rip off? Get the 2 bob frag & it will colour up nicely, saving yourself a fortune. Probably not geared towards the more financially stable of us but for those looking super bright coral, get your water, light & flow .
Follow me for more financial tips. Don't follow for reef keeping expertise as my tank looks like crap

Don't tell extreme corals that, they won't have any way to describe every other coral on their website.