The Name Game: Does Coral “Lineage” Matter?

[Hooz]

I think it matters to justify the price. If a reefer or vendor wants to charge $300 for a 1 inch RRU Angry Bird frag, then it better be a frag from an actual RRU Angry Bird colony. I'm sure there's color morphs of this acro that can pass as Angry Bird, but selling the morph as the original coral is misleading and downright shady.

The problem is that the Angry Birds that RRU is selling now isn't even the same as their own original Angry Birds. Some other places still have the original, though.

In other cases (MCC Prom Queen and CC Pink Highlighter), the same coral has multiple names.

I think names are important to identify what you're buying. How much value that adds and how much you're willing to spend is entirely up to you, though.

I am willing to spend a little more on named coral/anemones with lineage for the simple fact that I know what I'll be getting, and I know it's what I want. I've been burned a few times from less reputable sellers, so for me it's worth the little extra money.

 

[Reefer Matt]

"You can’t sell a coral by it’s trade name if you don’t have proof of lineage. Yet, it’s also taboo to rename coral."

Who's telling you this, just curious? Are you concerned you can't sell a "Jason Fox Day Glow Favites" because of his name....then drop the name, did he come up with the "Day Glow" part of it?

I’m not concerned about anything. Just seeing what opinions are out there. All hypothetical based on the answers I get here.

 

[Reefer Matt]

Or just start a Reefer Matt’s Renamed Corals business

I actually already have a tiny coral aquaculture business. But I only sell at one frag swap and don’t ship.

 

[Opus]

I think as long as you can find another sucker, ahem buyer, to buy your corals — you can name them whatever you like. I doubt that some big name coral farmers will hunt you down for “copyright infringement” lawsuits! Names are for easy reference vs saying “red tort, green base, with some hints of purple on the tip” (or whatever to describe species / colors / growth pattern / etc.

I’ve named my aiptasias with very colorful adult names but was reminded that this is a family-oriented forum!

Not a coral, but there used to be a clown breeder that would threaten lawsuits if you used his clown name even if it was from a pair of clowns you got from him.

 

[bakbay]

Not a coral, but there used to be a clown breeder that would threaten lawsuits if you used his clown name even if it was from a pair of clowns you got from him.

Hmm interesting - he is what he breeds! Ha
I’m afraid of clowns, they are not funny - downright scary.

 

[Acroguy]

For example walt disney tenuis , here in europe they go for 350€ a frag from vendors.I just bought a maricultured minicolony with the exact same colors and also sold as walt disney for a fraction of that price.It is probably the same coral. but one has BigR in its name the other one is from the ocean without a “ name “.

 

[Doctorgori]

I go to AquaSD’s clearance section and buy whatever will amuse any toddler walking into my crib….Ive considered dosing just blue “ food color” to the tanks as a cheaper stop gap…
I almost never remember what the heck the coral was named once glued down
Edit add: I’ve said this before; it’s like trading biological “pokémon” cards

 

[Doctorgori]

I also think the “name game” creates a nice side hustle for teens, newbs, et ….
to each their own but I’ve killed to many corals to risk a frag over $40
I also wish they would at least tell you the genus, species and growth habit along with the fancy name
…. vendors stink at this

 

[Opus]

I also think the “name game” creates a nice side hustle for teens, newbs, et ….
to each their own but I’ve killed to many corals to risk a frag over $40
I also wish they would at least tell you the genus, species and growth habit along with the fancy name
…. vendors stink at this

That is one of the reasons I like frag swaps. I can talk to the vendor personally and get what ever info I need.

 

[AIRDADDY]

“ satans sweaty ball cheese”

That's pretty catchy, you better get a trademark on that!

 

[AIRDADDY]

What’s up Reefers!
With a plethora of coral species and color morphs out there, talking about a specific coral can get confusing if we described them literally. Like “Blue zoas with yellow centers and green skirts”. But this was how it was done in the past. Nowadays there are a lot of names associated with coral that help us get a better mental picture of that description.

However, it seems a side effect is that by assigning those names to coral, it also assigns a perceived value. But to further complicate things, there are those that say you can’t call a coral by a trade name unless you have paperwork stating where you bought it from.

It seems that some Reefers and vendors are trying to assign pedigrees, patents, or trademarks to coral to ensure that they both maintain the same quality and price point. Yet there is no (common hobbyist) way to know for sure that every coral specimen with a given name is in fact from the same colony.

So without an “AKC” for coral, there is no governing authority to ensure that the coral you see is in fact the coral that is represented by a name. Baseball cards and coins for example, have companies that verify both condition and authenticity of specimens.

My question is twofold: Does lineage matter? And if so, how do you trust a piece of paper that someone gives you with no governing authority to back it?

I think the best solution could be the blockchain. Dealers could tokenize the frags coming from each mother colony and then the buyer has proof of the authenticity. It could even work as an NFT using a jpg of the frag. It may sound complicated right now but it won't in a few more years.

 

[Troylee]

I think the best solution could be the blockchain. Dealers could tokenize the frags coming from each mother colony and then the buyer has proof of the authenticity. It could even work as an NFT using a jpg of the frag. It may sound complicated right now but it won't in a few more years.

Sounds like a lot of work and would just raise the price of a coral even more after the stupid name got slapped on it. Lol

 

[AIRDADDY]

Sounds like a lot of work and would just raise the price of a coral even more after the stupid name got slapped on it. Lol

Setting up a token on the blockchain is actually not as hard as you think, and it's only going to require effort on the seller's end. Yes it will undoubtedly raise the price, but at least you know why they're charging more rather than the arbitrary pricing you see today. It won't appeal to non-collectors who couldn't care less about the flashy name or the latest trendy coral on the market. However, for the collectors who care, you will have the name of the supplier, the origin, the description, a fancy name, or any other information you wish to include. It will always be visible for anyone to search, so the buyer can verify before they commit their dollars.

 

[Troylee]

Setting up a token on the blockchain is actually not as hard as you think, and it's only going to require effort on the seller's end. Yes it will undoubtedly raise the price, but at least you know why they're charging more rather than the arbitrary pricing you see today. It won't appeal to non-collectors who couldn't care less about the flashy name or the latest trendy coral on the market. However, for the collectors who care, you will have the name of the supplier, the origin, the description, a fancy name, or any other information you wish to include. It will always be visible for anyone to search, so the buyer can verify before they commit their dollars.

Still has too many flaws.. tons of people have a receipt from asd from years ago on a holy grail torch… they could bring a wild one in today and sell it as asd.. yes it’s the honor system but who’s, who to say so and so is honest? I think it’s all lame in my opinion! I used to care many years ago when collecting became a thing but today you can’t! Same coral has 12 names from 12 different vendors.. bigger names get bigger prices because people wanna add that tag to their resale price. And for what it’s worth you’ll never see real collector corals as the divers deal directly with the clients that pay big money! It’s in someone’s personal collection without a dumb name lol.. If a few gems make it into a shipping box it’s picked by the next guy inline for his clients before hitting wholesale where they cherry pick for their higher end clients then your lfs gets what’s left.

 

[Reefer Matt]

I’ve also seen how frags that are deeply discounted don’t sell. But if another vendor has them for say, double the price, they seem to sell out. But, I have sold a lot of $5 and $10 frags too. It’s all perception of value to the customer, imo.

 

[jda]

Just be honest. Let the market/buyer decide. Don't put a name on a coral that does not have the lineage just to sell frags for more money. It matters. Even a 30 year old coral like the OG GARF Bonsai looks better than the knockoffs do - it is a superior coral that was chosen over the decades because it looks better. Dude around me tries to sell rainbow nems as Colorado Sunbursts and gets all kinds of mad when people tell him that they are not real - the buyers are happy about it, though... they want the real deal.

Names matter. Genesis g90 is every bit the car (probably better since it will last longer) than Audi a8, 750 BMW, Mercedes 550 and is $50k cheaper while being all maxed out with options. It is Ok to think that it is dumb, but many do not feel so.

 

[Troylee]

Just be honest. Let the market/buyer decide. Don't put a name on a coral that does not have the lineage just to sell frags for more money. It matters. Even a 30 year old coral like the OG GARF Bonsai looks better than the knockoffs do - it is a superior coral that was chosen over the decades because it looks better. Dude around me tries to sell rainbow nems as Colorado Sunbursts and gets all kinds of mad when people tell him that they are not real - the buyers are happy about it, though... they want the real deal.

Names matter. Genesis g90 is every bit the car (probably better since it will last longer) than Audi a8, 750 BMW, Mercedes 550 and is $50k cheaper while being all maxed out with options. It is Ok to think that it is dumb, but many do not feel so.

Cars is a poor comparison…there not all born or made in the same pool! It’s a man made thing so yeah a name does matter.. Ferrari will always be superior to ford and so on.. now if Chevy made a car and Ferrari and ford both bought it and named it a different thing to sell thats a different story but that doesn’t happen and never will. How come fish don’t have silly names tagged on them for more money, since there’s so many variants? You never find 2 flame angels identical? Clowns kinda do but no other fish does and each one is special in its own way.

 

[jda]

Abberent fish sell for more than $20k sometimes.

 

[Sharkbait19]

I really do wish coral labeling worked the way plecos are labeled in the freshwater trade. Each variety has its special name, but also has a tag associated with the breed or species (for example, the name “gold nugget pleco” can describe multiple species, which is why there are specific trade tags like L081, L085, or L177; other species are described by multiple names, like the gold spotted pleco / marbled sailfin pleco, in which both names can describe L001). This method of labeling could help someone know that their coral came from “X-X-X-X colony”, rather than hunt down a specific trade name. Of course, it becomes more difficult when buying in store as opposed to online, as oftentimes frags are put together in a tank, with the only form of labeling being the price tag.

 

[Sharkbait19]

I’ve also seen how frags that are deeply discounted don’t sell. But if another vendor has them for say, double the price, they seem to sell out. But, I have sold a lot of $5 and $10 frags too. It’s all perception of value to the customer, imo.

It is interesting how price tag can alter the value of a coral the same way that names do. For example, I recently saw a coral that was charged at $40, when I managed to get a near identical one for $10 from the “unnamed frag box” at my lfs. Does seeing an increased price suddenly make my piece more valuable? Should I start thinking of my $10 coral as a higher end variety? This is where coral labels suddenly become rather strange.