MTC MVX Skimmer review

[jason2459]

Had a good question on what's driving this skimmer to produce so much.

Basically I'm probably over stocked and over feed.


Fiji Yellow Leather (8" diameter maybe)
Duncan (50ish heads)
bunch of red mushrooms (15+)
ORA red goniopora (3ish" ball when fully retracted)
purple haze monti (2+" frag and growing)
9 RBTA's
1 GBTA
1 small minimax
1 small head of some kind of euphyllia coral

Other corals that I Can't rely on to judge reactions
1 frog spawn that hasn't recovered from a bad alk spike about 2-3 month ago
1 birds nest that also hasn't recovered from that bad alk spike
some kind of gorgonian coral (3ish") that's finally recovering from that alk spike a few months ago

Then I also have a LOT of sponges.

Fish:
Yellow Belly Blue Tang (~8")
A. pyroferus mimic tang (~6")
Desjardini Sailfin Tang (~5.5")
Yellow eye Kole Tang (~4+")
One spot fox face (~6")
2 Orange side fairy wrasses (~5")
Potters Leopard Wrasse (~5")
2 False Percs (~3.5")
2 Banggai Cardinals (~3.5")
Blue Dot Sleeper Goby (~5")
Yellow Watchman Goby (~5")
Mandarin (~3")
Flame Angel (~3.5")
Coral Beauty Angel (~3.5")
Bi-Color Angel (~3")
Matted file fish (~3")
9 blue green chromis (~1-2")
cleaner wrasse (~1.5")

Way to many asterina stars.
2 common starfish from kp aquatics
1 rapidly growing purple short spine rock urchin
Several peppermint shrimp
1 fighting conch
a few turbo snails
several other various snail
handful of blue leg hermits
tons of worms
999231409312840932850293840329849832749324809238408923794832709483 various pods

lots of aiptasia in the sump where I like them with a couple in the display

Feedings:
4x per day my automatic feeder dumps in some pellets NLS marine and NLS algaemax mixed together (12pm, 3pm, 6pm, 9pm)
2-3x per day I dump in some meaty foods
2-3 sheets of nori per day.

I'm sure I'm forgetting something.

 

[jason2459]

Skimmer also seems to be back on track.

 

[jason2459]

Don't know what was so out of whack with level 8 but level 9 kicked butt.

Not quite 1.25 gallons so around 5.5 cups per day.

Ended up averaging about 128watts

I didn't ramp up to 10 tonight. Hope to do so tomorrow night. Just didn't have the time to clean it out and tweak the water level. That actually takes longer then cleaning the collection cup out. Have to keep checking it as it settles into the new setting and make sure its not skimming to wet or not enough to get the foam up and over properly.

But so far every single setting has been rock solid consistency wise once dialed in.

 

[jason2459]

Level 10!

Almost done. 2 more levels left.

I got the collection cup and neck cleaned out tonight. I also ran a half cup of boiling rodi water through the venturi just to make sure it's cleaned out too.

Level 10 is pulling around 24 scfh. Bouncing between 22-24scfh.

And pulling about 143 watts. Again pretty similar with the 684.

 

[jason2459]

Level 10 is done and performed right on par with around 6 cups per day

Ended up pulling an average of 148.9 watts

The waveline is certainly pulling more air and more watts so more water flow but not really getting more production. My guess is it would do better with a taller reaction chamber.

One more level to go.

 

[jason2459]

Level 11 full speed 100% with the 784 mazzei.

Pulling the most so far all around and exceeding the maxx watt rating


Pulling around 26scfh

Usually there is only 1 maybe 2 watts variation while looking at watts used live. This setting is bouncing around quite a bit between 153 and 159 watts. Its listed max watts used is 150 watts.

Impressive.

 

[jason2459]

FWIW I'm already at 1.25 Gallons at the end of day 2 here. Looks like this is going to break the 6 cups per day mark.

 

[jason2459]

Level 11 3rd day is over.

I must have been seeing things this morning. It is getting harder to see the level in the bucket with the skimmate running dryer then what I was running before with the Aquamaxx.

But it's at 1.25 gallons for sure now. I shook the bucket to make sure I was seeing the water line right.

So, about 6 cups per day again.

Ended up averaging 150.42 watts! Like it had 0 head pressure against it as 150 is its listed max watts used. But the aquamaxx shows listed max watts can be exceeded.

I'd love to see what this waveline could do on a taller body skimmer. I think these higher flow rates and air draw would really shine. As it is the lower flow rates and air draw with the lower wattage is probably best for this 36".

I can now put together the finally list of compiled numbers!

 

[jason2459]

Some cool stats update 4

Aquamaxx Em 300
Air draw: ~38 scfh
Watts: rated 27watts actual: 31.38watts
Skimmate produced: ~1 cup dry/day and ~3cups wet/day low side

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mag18 as return pump w/ ~12' head height
Max head height:16.85'
Watts: rated 150watts actual: 71.18watts
Flow: rated 1500gph@0 head actual: ~750gph@12' head pressure

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mag18 with MVX stock 684 mazzei venturi
Air draw: ~12 scfh
Max head height:16.85'
Watts: rated 150watts actual: 62-63watts
Skimmate produced: ~3 cups dry/day high side

Mag18 with 784 mazzei
Air draw: ~14scf
Max head height: 16.85'
Watts: rated 150watts actual: 65-66watts
Skimmate produced: ~3 cups dryish/day low side

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 8 w/ 684 mazzei
Air draw: ~18scfh
Max head height: 22.96'
Watts: rated: 150watts (w/ adapter) 139watts (after adapter) actual: 114wattts (w/ adapter)
Skimmate produced: ~4 cups dry/day

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 9 w/ 684 mazzei
Air draw: ~22scfh
Max head height: 22.96'
Watts: rated: 150watts (w/ adapter) 139watts (after adapter) actual: 128wattts (w/ adapter)
Skimmate produced: ~6 cups dryish/day!!!

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 10 w/ 684 mazzei
Air draw: ~24scfh
Max head height: 22.96'
Watts: rated: 150watts (w/ adapter) 139watts (after adapter) actual: 142wattts (w/ adapter)
Skimmate produced: ~6 cups dry/day

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 11 w/ 684 mazzei
Air draw: ~24scfh
Max head height: 22.96'
Watts: rated: 150watts (w/ adapter) 139watts (after adapter) actual: 147wattts (w/ adapter)
Skimmate produced: ~5.5 cups dry/day


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 8 w/ 784 mazzei
Air draw: ~22scfh
Max head height: 22.96'
Watts: rated: 150watts (w/ adapter) 139watts (after adapter) actual: 114wattts (w/ adapter)
Skimmate produced: ~3 cups dry/day

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 9 w/ 784 mazzei
Air draw: ~22scfh
Max head height: 22.96'
Watts: rated: 150watts (w/ adapter) 139watts (after adapter) actual: 128wattts (w/ adapter)
Skimmate produced: ~5.5 cups dry/day

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 10 w/ 784 mazzei
Air draw: ~24scfh
Max head height: 22.96'
Watts: rated: 150watts (w/ adapter) 139watts (after adapter) actual: 143wattts (w/ adapter)
Skimmate produced: ~6 cups dry/day

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 11 w/ 784 mazzei
Air draw: ~26scfh
Max head height: 22.96'
Watts: rated: 150watts (w/ adapter) 139watts (after adapter) actual: 150wattts (w/ adapter)
Skimmate produced: ~6 cups dry/day



Will calculate out the efficiency/performance thing next. but right now I have to rip apart a power bar... ha!

 

[jason2459]

I couldn't be happier with the waveline with it's higher head pressure rating compared to other (affordable) internal AC or DC pumps out there.

Adding on now to what I started to put together before.

So lets see some form of percentage of the ratio between cups dry produced vs wattage vs. air draw used
Aquamaxx Em 300
vs. wattage used: 3.2% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 2.6% "performance"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


MTC MVX with Mag18 and MVX stock 684 mazzei venturi
vs. wattage used: 4.8% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 25% "performance"

MTC MVX with Mag18 and 784 mazzei
vs. wattage used: 4.5% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 21.4% "performance"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 8 w/ 684 mazzei
vs. wattage used: 3.5% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 22.2% "performance"

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 9 w/ 684 mazzei
vs. wattage used: 4.7% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 27.3% "performance"

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 10 w/ 684 mazzei
vs. wattage used: 4.2% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 25% "performance"

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 11 w/ 684 mazzei
vs. wattage used: 3.7% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 22% "performance"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 8 w/ 784 mazzei
vs. wattage used: 2.6% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 13.6% "performance"

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 9 w/ 784mazzei
vs. wattage used: 4.2% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 25% "performance"

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 10 w/ 784mazzei
vs. wattage used: 4.2% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 25% "performance"

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 11 w/ 784 mazzei
vs. wattage used: 4% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 23% "performance"



This is all fully assuming that the skimmate production would be exactly the same time after time at each of those levels. Which it's been really pretty steady but I'm sure what pulls 6 cups per day one time might pull 5.5 cups per day and reverse. But I don't see something pulling 3 cups per day gaining that much ground or reverse.

So, my totally unscientific conclusion which is most likely wrong is:

Waveline DC 12000 @ level 9 with the stock 684 mazzei is the winner for highest performance ratio of cups produced to air draw.
Mag 1800 with the stock 684 mazzei is the winnder for highest efficiency ratio of cups produced to wattage used

If looking for as much air draw as possible to say for aeration purposes the Waveline DC 12000 @ level 11 w/ the 784 mazzei is the winner.

If looking for a pump that runs cooler that will still produce something you'd be happy with then the Mag 18 w/ 784 venture. (produced about the same amount of skimmate as with the 684 but it was dryer so could produce more wetter.)

Definitely some unexpected results as I figured the waveline with the 784 was going to really kick the 684's butt. But, what I think is happening, the waveline handled the head height so well the more restricted 684 didn't hurt it at all. The 784 did help the mag18 that doesn't have near the head height rating. In fact I think the 684 may have produced a finer bubble with the waveline vs. with the 784.


and in the end YMMV

There's more I plan to play around with on this skimmer but going to take a break from it for a bit and get back to some other things like my saltmix parameter testing and thread.

 

[jason2459]

Cliffs: This skimmer kicks @$#

 

[jason2459]

I put the 684 mazzei in place and connected to the Apex via a VDM module. Took me a bit to figure out one small detail that was left out of the instructions... Oh wait, there are no instructions that come with it.

You have to have the Waveline controller at the lowest setting before it picks up what the VDM is telling it or at least lower then what the Apex is telling it.

I have it set to 80% which I figured would be close to level 9. It's pulling about 20scfh so it's not quite to the level 9. I'll tweak it higher eventually. I'll let it ride here for a bit.

My quick basic Apex programming which I love I can ramp down the speed once my Davey Jones locker is close to full but not there yet. Kind of slow it down in case it's overflowing for some reason which this skimmer has been super stable so far. I might even get another float in there and get a stepped ramp down process.

Skimmer physical outlet
Fallback OFF
Set ON
If Power SumpEB8_7 Off 002 Then OFF
If Outlet vSumpHigh_A7 = ON Then OFF
If Outlet return_7_1 = OFF Then OFF
If Outlet vLockerF_A3 = ON Then OFF
Defer 002:00 Then ON

VDM var1 outlet:
Fallback OFF
Set SkimmerOn
If Outlet vLockerD_A2 = ON Then SkimmerSlow
If Outlet vLockerF_A3 = ON Then OFF

The Profiles:
Name SkimmerOn
Type Pump
Synchronize Disable
Divide by 10 Disable
Initial Off Time 0 seconds
On Time 0 seconds
Off Time 0 seconds
Minimum Intensity 80%
Maximum Intensity 80%

Name SkimmerSlow
Type Pump
Synchronize Disable
Divide by 10 Disable
Initial Off Time 0 seconds
On Time 0 seconds
Off Time 0 seconds
Minimum Intensity 60%
Maximum Intensity 60%

 

[jason2459]

Can't help myself this skimmer is so awesome for being able to customize it. I'm thinking about making it into a dual mazzei venturi with 2 484x mazzei injectors.

The 484x gets less water flow then the 584 but slightly more air draw. It isn't much less the air flow of the 684. I may even try it with a single one first at full 100% power and see what happens too.

http://mazzei.net/wp-content/upload...s_Injector_Perf-Tables_2016-07-05_SECURED.pdf

 

[jason2459]

I finally got around to getting the swabbie installed. The wiper just fit in there perfectly. I did have to trim the blade just slightly as there is a little edge on the bottom that I cut to get just above it and even along the entire neck.

The original avast swabbie lid and the motor mounted right on top with nylon screws.

You can buy just the motor and in the instructions you glue it to your existing lid after drilling a center hole for the shaft to go through. I had Jeff drill that center hole for me from the beginning. I don't want to glue the motor to the top in case I don't like it.

So out came the unibit I already had to get a pilot going and then used bits in the 1/4" 20 tpi course tap set.

There is a rubber gasket that goes between

All ready to go

And gets the entire neck to the lip on the quick change fitting

And here we go

 

[jason2459]

Oh yeah, and I have it plugged into the apex which I have that outlet timed for when my AFS feeder is set to feed a mix of nls marine and algaemax pellets 4x per day.

It runs for 2 minutes just before the return pump is shutdown which my skimmer is set to shutdown if the return pump is off and not turn on for 2 minutes after the return has started back up so sump water level is stabilized.

Swabbie outlet
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 11:58 to 12:00 Then ON
If Time 14:58 to 15:00 Then ON
If Time 17:58 to 18:00 Then ON
If Time 20:58 to 21:00 Then ON
If Outlet skimmer_7_5 = OFF Then OFF


Skimmer outlet
Fallback OFF
Set ON
If Power SumpEB8_7 Off 002 Then OFF
If Outlet vSumpHigh_A7 = ON Then OFF
If Outlet return_7_1 = OFF Then OFF
If Outlet vLockerF_A3 = ON Then OFF
Defer 002:00 Then ON

Return outlet
Fallback ON
Set ON
If DT_Sw1 OPEN Then OFF
If Outlet vfeed_A8 = ON Then OFF
Defer 008:00 Then ON

Feeder outlet
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Outlet vfeed_A8 = ON Then ON
If FeedA 000 Then ON
Defer 002:00 Then ON (this delays the feeding to make sure drain lines are fully drained to sump)

Feeder virtual outlet for scheduling
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 12:00 to 12:01 Then ON
If Time 15:00 to 15:01 Then ON
If Time 18:00 to 18:01 Then ON
If Time 21:00 to 21:01 Then ON
If FeedA 000 Then ON


That all helps to get the neck cleaned out which destroys the foam head when its about to be killed any way, enough time for the swabbie to get around almost 2 full rotations, stops food from going straight down the drain, i believe clearing the drains helps clean out the return and skimmer pumps a bit with the back flushing and possible the venturi slightly, and reduces build up of worms like feather dusters in the drain and return lines.

 

[jason2459]

Heck yeah!!! I think I hit the sweet spot.

8 cups per day baby!

I have the waveline dc12000 at 90% pulling right at about 20-22 scfh plus the swabbie. That had to help as by day 3 my collection cup and neck was coated in skimmate.

Check that out lol

Had a good quick call with Jeff from MTC the other day too. I had sent him an email on an oring question and sent him a link to this thread too. He was quite surprised I think. Ha!

He also mentioned he was trying to think why they ended up with the 684 mazzei but its been so long that they've been building skimmers and these venturi ones on request they couldn't exactly remember.

To me it seems like the right choice. That balance between air draw and water flow. On a taller skimmer maybe that 784 would be a little better. I guess I'll just have to save up for that monster external dual venturi starting at 48"! That would be my dream skimmer right there.

Hi Jeff if you're reading this you guys make one heck of a great skimmer. I love it. Thanks so much again for the call back.

 

[jason2459]

I had a question on my ozone setup and use. I've posted this before so most of this will be a copy paste.


You certainly don't need much ozone to produce results. I've also found very small amounts to help skimmer production while higher amounts hinder a good dense foam production. Some people will only run ozone for a couple hours right after lights on with great results.

I have used a 50mg/l redsea aquazone for years and have it down to running 25% for around 200 gallon system volume. That is a very small amount and poses little risk to fish even if GAC wasn't used. I do have a bag of GAC (ROX 0.8) sitting in front of my skimmer's output as a precaution. I do feel it acts like a flocculant at that small amount along with being an oxidizing agent. As others have said it's only one small part to maintaining my system.

More importantly though is that ozone isn't released into the atmosphere for you or anyone else in the house to breath in. (another reason I like very small amounts.) If using a skimmer as a reactor put bags of carbon over the collection cup if there's holes. I used to tape the holes up with duct tape except one of them and shoved my skimmer's airline in it to draw in any excess ozone air back into the skimmer. Lifereef skimmer do this already. My current skimmer is sealed on top with no holes so I don't have to worry about that part (MTC MVX).

Waterkeeper pointed me to these articles a few moons ago and should be read by anyone looking to use ozone.

Ozone and the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley Parts 1, 2, and 3
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/rhf/index.php

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-05/rhf/index.php



Posted this just recently but shows how I used to duct tape the holes on top except one to suck back into the skimmer any unused ozone.

The MTC MVX is sealed with a rubber gasket and screwed down. No holes on top.

Now for how I have it all setup airline wise.

I use a T to split off and control freshair flow and airflow from the ozone generator. And you'll see I also use a CO2 scrubber pre ozone generator.

The sodalime CO2 scrubber actually does two things for me. It acts to reduce CO2 going into the skimmer which helps elevate my tanks pH slightly but it also drys the air some as well which makes the ozone generator more efficient.

I T off the air flow going through both the CO2 scrubber and ozone generator as the generator doesn't need that much flow and would actually restrict airflow if I didn't T off and restricting the air flow through the scrubber increases its life as the sodalime would be exhausted much faster if pulling 100% of the air draw through it and I found it doesn't help increase pH that much more doing so.

So
Air in > scrubber > generator > T > skimmer
Air in > T > skimmer.

If that wasn't confusing here's a picture of the airlines which may or may not help clear that up. And you'll love my way of connecting some of these hoses...shoving one into another. Im not concerned with airtight as the air flow through the generator is less then the total airflow.

Air in

Sceubber to generator

Generator to T

Air in to T and T to skimmer

And my ozone generator is controlled by my apex. Monitoring orp should be done when using ozone.

Fallback OFF
If DT_ORP < 400 Then ON
If DT_ORP > 425 Then OFF
If Outlet skimmer_7_5 = OFF Then OFF

 

[jason2459]

And there's always skeptics so No it's not running wet to break past that 6 cups per day mark. Picture already above of the lovely foam head at startup after installing the swabbie but here...

I cleaned this collection cup out last night so I can inspect and make sure the wiper blade didn't need adjusted or tightened as with the avast its connected via just a bolt and nut to the shaft.

1 day in and already starting to not see a darn thing through the collection cup due to the amazingly awesomeness of this skimmer. lol

 

[jason2459]

I'm still loving the skimmer. I'm glad I got the quick change head but also really happy I can remove the entire top with the flange thumbscrews to get a really good cleaning done. I'll probably do that about once a month. Get a good wipe under the flange. Also super happy to have the neck cleaner. I'll probably keep up with removing the collection cup at the quick change every couple weeks. So, I guess kind of alternate between removing via quick change and flange.

I cleaned out my skimmer last night. Been just over a week and not quite 2 weeks since last cleaning. And this is like the ultimate foaming beast. I'm still getting about 6 cups per day

And thick

Like upside down Dairy Queen Blizzard thick

And this morning.

 

[PANONHAS]

hi, do you think I'd be ok ,if I ran the skimmer from a manifold? I have an Ecotech L1 that I was thinking of using for return and possibly feeding whatever skimmer I purchase. what is the size of you tank if I may ask?


thanks