My High Energy Rainbow Garden - Niji No Niwa

[naterealbig]

Few small updates.... Algae is still ruling my display.... Feel like a complete noob. I have run barebottom on my last two systems and loved it. This is what I get for venturing.... Either way, Removing the sand is also huge destabilization event, so it will be another couple months before I'm ready for coral.

I'm a firm believer that some species of algae can uptake ammonia very efficiently. Because of the large surface area of the sand bed, I believe supplemental biological filtration media will help with algae (through efficient nitrification) , and denitrification. I just got 8 of the Brightwell XPORT BIO bricks, and these will sit on the bottom of my sump. I actually like rock in the sump as I feel it lends itself to a stronger biodiversity, but the trade off is that it will be a complete pain to keep clean. Staying true to the high nutrient import/high nutrient export, and simplification of maintenance evolutions, I chose the bricks.

I just put the bricks in some tank water along with a bottle of Dr. Tim's One and Only. These will seed overnight in a bucket, and will be placed in the sump tomorrow.

Also, I averted my first major setback a few days ago, thanks to my trusty videoscope.... Purchased several SPS frags and a few Zoas from a LFS, and found these (baby Red Bugs, anyone?).....

Needless to say, I will be making the drive to WWC and TSA for my coral purchases moving forward. $150 in frags straight into the garbage, without a second thought. Lesson learned.

Timer reset on QT.... 66 days to go.

 

[NY_Caveman]

Ugh. Nice catch on the bugs.

 

[hatfielj]

Don't assume that you'll get pest free stuff from anyone...including WWC and TSA. I've found pests on frags from both of those vendors. You must QT and dip everything

 

[Tuffyyyyy]

Just caught up on this thread. Thanks a lot for bringing us on the ride! Excited to see where it goes.

 

[naterealbig]

Ugh. Nice catch on the bugs.

Thanks! As annoying as it is, I'd much rather lose some cash than go through the headache of dipping the hundred plus frags I have in QT.....

 

[naterealbig]

Don't assume that you'll get pest free stuff from anyone...including WWC and TSA. I've found pests on frags from both of those vendors. You must QT and dip everything

Yes, very true - I have a fully dedicated QT system set up, and absolutely nothing goes in the tank without being fully vetted. I purchased the scope specifically so I had the option to catch the pest before I was in a circumstance where I had to treat the QT system.

Flatworms and nudibrachs are relatively large, and they (along with eggs) I would think would be relative easy to remove manually and with dips prior to adding to the QT. I am not aware of a product that kills Redbugs on contact, however. Is there a product you know of?. And the ones in the picture were too small and numerous to remove manually.

I agree. There is no vendor I would trust implicitly to be pest free. I guess my hope was, there might be a place that had a lower risk, or a lower percentage of corals with pests. Thanks for your feedback and insight, and please continue to let me know your thoughts as the system progresses.

Best.

 

[naterealbig]

Just caught up on this thread. Thanks a lot for bringing us on the ride! Excited to see where it goes.

Thank you for the nice words. I'm very excited to get the system stable, and introduce corals.

Be chatting...

 

[naterealbig]

Just added the seeded Xport bricks to the sump. I'm worried the bricks will grow algae, so I'm hoping they cycle quickly, and begin to process the majority of ammonia to outcompete the hair algae.

My intention is to utilize the refugium for phosphate control, as I would prefer not to have to run a GFO reactor. Otherwise, I'd ditch the fuge altogether for the sake of simplicity. Once the system's biological element is in balance, I believe the filtration will be powerful, and easily sustainable.

 

[naterealbig]

Bummed out to discover one of the two Fluval SP6's I'm using for return pumps failed a couple days ago. [** Edit - Fluval pump has not failed, and is working properly. Please see post #218**] Upon initial inspection there is nothing visibly wrong with the volute or impeller. I will test for continuity as soon as I have a minute, but my suspicion is that there is an open in the stator wiring. I heard a lot of great things about these pumps, and chose AC options specifically for reliability. Assuming the pump is dead, I will be replacing the return pumps with Ecotech Vectra L2's. The one I purchased several years ago from Ecotech is on its third tank, requires minimal maintenance, and has never had a problem. Additionally, I will likely prefer to reduce flow to the sump as the system matures, and also found I missed the prolonged feed mode capability when running the AC pumps.

Along these same lines, I'm disappointed with my choice to utilize Tunze pumps for main display flow. The flow rate and pattern is very good, but despite the magnets for the multiple 6085's and 6125's being rated for 3/4" glass, they slide across the glass very easily. After cleaning, I must leave the pumps turned off for several days or they simply slide around once they are re-energized. It is a complete headache.

These also will be replaced with an Ecotech option. Specifically 3 or 4 MP60's. I have run these on 3/4" glass on a previous system without ever an issue, and with a spare dry side, maintenance evolutions literally take seconds. Additionally, I have several MP40's that are still in service after almost a decade of use.

Cheers.

 

[rushbattle]

Just added the seeded Xport bricks to the sump. I'm worried the bricks will grow algae, so I'm hoping they cycle quickly, and begin to process the majority of ammonia to outcompete the hair algae.

My intention is to utilize the refugium for phosphate control, as I would prefer not to have to run a GFO reactor. Otherwise, I'd ditch the fuge altogether for the sake of simplicity. Once the system's biological element is in balance, I believe the filtration will be powerful, and easily sustainable.

I’m forgoing a refugium for the first time since I started reefing in 2002. I find that it helps with coral growth, which was unexpected. Algae control is herbivory. P control is mechanical filtration and acrofugium. The sump stays cleaner, and easier to clean with no algae growth down there. Not a suggestion, just talking or thinking points.

 

[naterealbig]

I’m forgoing a refugium for the first time since I started reefing in 2002. I find that it helps with coral growth, which was unexpected. Algae control is herbivory. P control is mechanical filtration and acrofugium. The sump stays cleaner, and easier to clean with no algae growth down there. Not a suggestion, just talking or thinking points.

Great to hear from you @rushbattle , and all excellent points. Something I did not mention that I was also targeting with the refugium was pH stability by running a reverse photoperiod. Although you are right - it sure is nice not to have to fool with the extra cleaning, nuisance algae on equipment, etc.

A mitigating factor may be that I am running a kalkwasser reactor until alkalinity demand warrants placing my calcium reactor online. Perhaps dosing at night may offset pH swings enough to allay my concern. I'm also open to the idea that pH swing should not even be a concern to begin with. Thoughts?

I will definitely ponder the idea of foregoing the refugium... In theory, it is an excellent sustainable phosphate and nitrate control mechanism. In practice however, the lighting in the sump has added lots of maintenance time as of late, and I would prefer a minimum amount of work to keep the system clean.

As always, thank you for your insight.

Best regards

 

[rushbattle]

Bummed out to discover one of the two Fluval SP6's I'm using for return pumps failed a couple days ago. Upon initial inspection there is nothing visibly wrong with the volute or impeller. I will test for continuity as soon as I have a minute, but my suspicion is that there is an open in the stator wiring. I heard a lot of great things about these pumps, and chose AC options specifically for reliability. Assuming the pump is dead, I will be replacing the return pumps with Ecotech Vectra L2's. The one I purchased several years ago from Ecotech is on its third tank, requires minimal maintenance, and has never had a problem. Additionally, I will likely prefer to reduce flow to the sump as the system matures, and also found I missed the prolonged feed mode capability when running the AC pumps.

Along these same lines, I'm disappointed with my choice to utilize Tunze pumps for main display flow. The flow rate and pattern is very good, but despite the magnets for the multiple 6085's and 6125's being rated for 3/4" glass, they slide across the glass very easily. After cleaning, I must leave the pumps turned off for several days or they simply slide around once they are re-energized. It is a complete headache.

These also will be replaced with an Ecotech option. Specifically 3 or 4 MP60's. I have run these on 3/4" glass on a previous system without ever an issue, and with a spare dry side, maintenance evolutions literally take seconds. Additionally, I have several MP40's that are still in service after almost a decade of use.

Cheers.

I have had excellent experience with Reef Octopus Varios pumps. They are very quiet, and I’m super picky about noise. Not sure about flow rates vs pump curve, but my impression is that they have good flow if the pipe is decent size, like 1.5” for the Varios 8.

The powerhead market is due for more innovation. I like a number of them, but they all have pretty glaring downsides. No arguing with MP60s, they are good options for sure. Just one thing to add about powerheads, magnets are a huge cost for the manufacturers. You can buy them yourself which saves a huge (but necessary) markup buying them from the manufacturers. I use these to put behind the factory magnets outside the tank, it’s like sword and the stone dealing with them!

 

[rushbattle]

Great to hear from you @rushbattle , and all excellent points. Something I did not mention that I was also targeting with the refugium was pH stability by running a reverse photoperiod. Although you are right - it sure is nice not to have to fool with the extra cleaning, nuisance algae on equipment, etc.

A mitigating factor may be that I am running a kalkwasser reactor until alkalinity demand warrants placing my calcium reactor online. Perhaps dosing at night may offset pH swings enough to allay my concern. I'm also open to the idea that pH swing should not even be a concern to begin with. Thoughts?

I will definitely ponder the idea of foregoing the refugium... In theory, it is an excellent sustainable phosphate and nitrate control mechanism. In practice however, the lighting in the sump has added lots of maintenance time as of late, and I would prefer a minimum amount of work to keep the system clean.

As always, thank you for your insight.

Best regards

pH is certainly a consideration, and I really like the CO2 reduction along with NP control with refugia. How are your CO2 levels in the house? I use limewater to supply almost all alkalinity/Ca, and sodium hydroxide based three part to make up the remainder. pH is not a concern for me as indoor CO2 is low in my house. I feel that if you can do limewater, pH should shake out unless your house is super tight. Certainly success can be had with both approaches.

 

[naterealbig]

I have had excellent experience with Reef Octopus Varios pumps. They are very quiet, and I’m super picky about noise. Not sure about flow rates vs pump curve, but my impression is that they have good flow if the pipe is decent size, like 1.5” for the Varios 8.

The powerhead market is due for more innovation. I like a number of them, but they all have pretty glaring downsides. No arguing with MP60s, they are good options for sure. Just one thing to add about powerheads, magnets are a huge cost for the manufacturers. You can buy them yourself which saves a huge (but necessary) markup buying them from the manufacturers. I use these to put behind the factory magnets outside the tank, it’s like sword and the stone dealing with them!

You are THE man Rush - I never even considered a stronger after-market magnet for the Tunzes. This would be a great solution, just because I did not originally have the $2100 budgeted to shell out for the MP60's, and if I can hold off on that for a while then my wallet will thank me. I will definitely order the magnets, and post the results. I assume I will need to coat the magnets with some plasti-dip (or the like) to get them to "grip" onto the glass?

And LOLOLOL at the Sword In the Stone reference. I immediately replayed the old Disney cartoon in my head - perhaps one of my favorites growing up. They definitely don't make the movies as funny as they used to....

I have used Reef Octopus before - their Water Blaster (Honya) 10,000 on my last set up was trouble-free (albeit loud), as well as the SRO-2000-EXT which also did very well. I recall significant crazing on the cone body, but I also remember CoralVue shipping me a brand-new body, no questions asked. I would definitely consider the SRO DC return pump line, although I did notice that BRS put a special note in the item details stating that the pump should not be utilized for any pressure-rated applications. I suppose this is true for most DC pumps (except Abyzz?), though I also noted that the Ecotech Vectra L1 is a "recommended" pump for the My Reef Creations dual-beckett recirculating skimmers (I love MRC stuff) according to their site. Also, it looks like the Vectra L1 is rated at 21 ft max head pressure and 3100 gph max flow rate, while the Varios S8 is 2700 gph / 18 ft max flow/max head pressure. I would likely lean toward the Ecotech, because I can control them and the MP's through EcoSmart Live, and also because I will likely be interested in integrated some of Ecotech's (rumored) coming tech.

Knowing I may have a solution to the magnet issue, I would be inclined to hold off on purchasing a new set of return pumps as well. I'll see what I can do with the Fluval, and go from there.

Thank you for your help and recommendations!

 

[naterealbig]

pH is certainly a consideration, and I really like the CO2 reduction along with NP control with refugia. How are your CO2 levels in the house? I use limewater to supply almost all alkalinity/Ca, and sodium hydroxide based three part to make up the remainder. pH is not a concern for me as indoor CO2 is low in my house. I feel that if you can do limewater, pH should shake out unless your house is super tight. Certainly success can be had with both approaches.

I'm not certain about the CO2 levels, although I would guess they are relatively low - it's just me (and occasionally my son), the condo is old (late 70's ? construction), and my pH runs 8.0-8.15 currently with small daily automatic additions of kalkwasser. This will likely increase as I add coral and dosing demand becomes greater. I truly am thinking of ditching the fuge - after deciding to use sand and refugia with this setup, I miss the 2 incredibly simple barebottom setups I had previously. An added consideration is the fact that with a lighted sump, the biomedia will likely cultivate algae - which will either add to the maintenance, or decrease nitrification/denitrification, or both. One more potential pain that I did not think through before purchasing the bricks....

Without the Chaeto to consider, I can throw some GFO in the sump, which should help with my current algae issues. I think I will move forward with this, and I'll update in a few days.

By-the-by - have you started a build thread yet? How's the tank coming along?

 

[rushbattle]

You are THE man Rush - I never even considered a stronger after-market magnet for the Tunzes. This would be a great solution, just because I did not originally have the $2100 budgeted to shell out for the MP60's, and if I can hold off on that for a while then my wallet will thank me. I will definitely order the magnets, and post the results. I assume I will need to coat the magnets with some plasti-dip (or the like) to get them to "grip" onto the glass?

And LOLOLOL at the Sword In the Stone reference. I immediately replayed the old Disney cartoon in my head - perhaps one of my favorites growing up. They definitely don't make the movies as funny as they used to....

I have used Reef Octopus before - their Water Blaster (Honya) 10,000 on my last set up was trouble-free (albeit loud), as well as the SRO-2000-EXT which also did very well. I recall significant crazing on the cone body, but I also remember CoralVue shipping me a brand-new body, no questions asked. I would definitely consider the SRO DC return pump line, although I did notice that BRS put a special note in the item details stating that the pump should not be utilized for any pressure-rated applications. I suppose this is true for most DC pumps (except Abyzz?), though I also noted that the Ecotech Vectra L1 is a "recommended" pump for the My Reef Creations dual-beckett recirculating skimmers (I love MRC stuff) according to their site. Also, it looks like the Vectra L1 is rated at 21 ft max head pressure and 3100 gph max flow rate, while the Varios S8 is 2700 gph / 18 ft max flow/max head pressure. I would likely lean toward the Ecotech, because I can control them and the MP's through EcoSmart Live, and also because I will likely be interested in integrated some of Ecotech's (rumored) coming tech.

Knowing I may have a solution to the magnet issue, I would be inclined to hold off on purchasing a new set of return pumps as well. I'll see what I can do with the Fluval, and go from there.

Thank you for your help and recommendations!

For the magnets, I just put them on the back of the existing exterior magnets. I should epoxy coat them or something, but they haven't corroded yet as they have stayed dry. The best idea would be to epoxy them to the existing exterior magnets to keep from cracking your glass. Caveat emptor!

I hear you on the pressure output ability of the "DC" pumps. That's how they get greater efficiency for the flow curves. Everyone is rated at 0ft head pressure, when it's something like 15 ft that matters. But they are pretty efficient if you can bring down head pressure required for your application. My sump sits up on a stand, and the tank is low so my total head pressure is like 2.5ft with only one elbow. I would think any of these pumps would do fine, and I am surprised about the Fluval failing. Please keep us updated on what is going on.

 

[rushbattle]

I'm not certain about the CO2 levels, although I would guess they are relatively low - it's just me (and occasionally my son), the condo is old (late 70's ? construction), and my pH runs 8.0-8.15 currently with small daily automatic additions of kalkwasser. This will likely increase as I add coral and dosing demand becomes greater. I truly am thinking of ditching the fuge - after deciding to use sand and refugia with this setup, I miss the 2 incredibly simple barebottom setups I had previously. An added consideration is the fact that with a lighted sump, the biomedia will likely cultivate algae - which will either add to the maintenance, or decrease nitrification/denitrification, or both. One more potential pain that I did not think through before purchasing the bricks....

Without the Chaeto to consider, I can throw some GFO in the sump, which should help with my current algae issues. I think I will move forward with this, and I'll update in a few days.

By-the-by - have you started a build thread yet? How's the tank coming along?

In that case, you likely don't need the CO2 reduction from the fuge, IMO. Mechanical filtration is a great way to control N and P, I am trying some Clarisea filter rollers on these next two tanks.

I bet your pH goes way up as alkalinity demand goes up and gets replaced with limewater. I believe that almost all tanks would benefit from limewater for topoff with a calcium reactor or use sodium hydroxide based three part for alkalinity and calcium supplementation, or some combination therein.

I have no build thread because I have no tanks to build out! The last I have seen is that they were all set up for adhesives, and that was over a month ago. They are probably going to ship somewhat soon. I will get a thread started once the tanks get here!

 

[naterealbig]

For the magnets, I just put them on the back of the existing exterior magnets. I should epoxy coat them or something, but they haven't corroded yet as they have stayed dry. The best idea would be to epoxy them to the existing exterior magnets to keep from cracking your glass. Caveat emptor!

I hear you on the pressure output ability of the "DC" pumps. That's how they get greater efficiency for the flow curves. Everyone is rated at 0ft head pressure, when it's something like 15 ft that matters. But they are pretty efficient if you can bring down head pressure required for your application. My sump sits up on a stand, and the tank is low so my total head pressure is like 2.5ft with only one elbow. I would think any of these pumps would do fine, and I am surprised about the Fluval failing. Please keep us updated on what is going on.

In that case, you likely don't need the CO2 reduction from the fuge, IMO. Mechanical filtration is a great way to control N and P, I am trying some Clarisea filter rollers on these next two tanks.

I bet your pH goes way up as alkalinity demand goes up and gets replaced with limewater. I believe that almost all tanks would benefit from limewater for topoff with a calcium reactor or use sodium hydroxide based three part for alkalinity and calcium supplementation, or some combination therein.

I have no build thread because I have no tanks to build out! The last I have seen is that they were all set up for adhesives, and that was over a month ago. They are probably going to ship somewhat soon. I will get a thread started once the tanks get here!

Man, work has been busy - just getting a chance to respond here. I will buy a pack of these magnets and test them in the configuration you recommend and post the results.

The challenge I have with my plumbing is that there is a LOT of head loss - most of it caused by the 1.5" flow meter. Interestingly, I have not used it at all yet, except to get an idea of what I was getting for flow rate on the Fluvals when I first set up the tank. I think I will use it once the reef has matured to verify flow rates - it will be one more factor that I can control and maintain stability with.

As for the Fluval pump, it is still working - I'm just daft. My GFCI had tripped (I have one on each EB832) and de-energized the bus. I didn't realize this, as I didn't get a direct notification from my Apex, and the LED indicators on the EB832 were still lit. Evidently, the indicators stay lit as long as the EB832 is communicating with the CPU, even if there is no line power. Because I have heaters, lights, etc split evenly between the 2 EB832's, the tank continued to operate normally for the most part. I could have realized something was wrong by seeing that my right halide was not turning on, but I've been working so late the lights were off by the time I got home. I have to figure out a way to get a notification when either EB832 loses power though, so time to dig into the manual a little bit. I will go back and edit my original post about the Fluval - they are both operating flawlessly. In fact, they have been running for almost a year now, and there is no evidence of any build-up or precipitation. This is great, mostly because it means I can wait a while before I replace them with something controllable.

You were 100% correct - the my pH has remained relatively stable since removing the chaeto and turning off the H380, with the Kalkwasser being dosed. The biggest win here is that I haven't had to clean my sump - no algae at all. This will save me a ton of time on normal maintenance. I have a large Vertex media reactor that I can put on line if I need to at some point for PO4 control, and I will likely start using it for GAC at some point regardless.

Please post a link to your build thread once you get it going - it will be an epic build, and I'm looking forward to learning a lot from it.

 

[rushbattle]

Man, work has been busy - just getting a chance to respond here. I will buy a pack of these magnets and test them in the configuration you recommend and post the results.

The challenge I have with my plumbing is that there is a LOT of head loss - most of it caused by the 1.5" flow meter. Interestingly, I have not used it at all yet, except to get an idea of what I was getting for flow rate on the Fluvals when I first set up the tank. I think I will use it once the reef has matured to verify flow rates - it will be one more factor that I can control and maintain stability with.

As for the Fluval pump, it is still working - I'm just daft. My GFCI had tripped (I have one on each EB832) and de-energized the bus. I didn't realize this, as I didn't get a direct notification from my Apex, and the LED indicators on the EB832 were still lit. Evidently, the indicators stay lit as long as the EB832 is communicating with the CPU, even if there is no line power. Because I have heaters, lights, etc split evenly between the 2 EB832's, the tank continued to operate normally for the most part. I could have realized something was wrong by seeing that my right halide was not turning on, but I've been working so late the lights were off by the time I got home. I have to figure out a way to get a notification when either EB832 loses power though, so time to dig into the manual a little bit. I will go back and edit my original post about the Fluval - they are both operating flawlessly. In fact, they have been running for almost a year now, and there is no evidence of any build-up or precipitation. This is great, mostly because it means I can wait a while before I replace them with something controllable.

You were 100% correct - the my pH has remained relatively stable since removing the chaeto and turning off the H380, with the Kalkwasser being dosed. The biggest win here is that I haven't had to clean my sump - no algae at all. This will save me a ton of time on normal maintenance. I have a large Vertex media reactor that I can put on line if I need to at some point for PO4 control, and I will likely start using it for GAC at some point regardless.

Please post a link to your build thread once you get it going - it will be an epic build, and I'm looking forward to learning a lot from it.

Great news! I love it when there are easy solutions like simplifying the setup and discovering a small oversight!

I really like GFO, and lanthanum in the correct scenario. I’m finding that mechanical filtration is reducing N and P levels readily in my current coral only system that is fed pretty heavily. We will see when there is a fish load though.

One thing for folks to consider is series pumps, though I don’t think it’s best for your scenario. If I had 8ft+ head pressure I would run two VarioS-8 in series. Plumbing would be much less of a concern, should be able to develop plenty of pressure to overcome restrictions, like random flow gens etc.

 

[naterealbig]

Great news! I love it when there are easy solutions like simplifying the setup and discovering a small oversight!

I really like GFO, and lanthanum in the correct scenario. I’m finding that mechanical filtration is reducing N and P levels readily in my current coral only system that is fed pretty heavily. We will see when there is a fish load though.

One thing for folks to consider is series pumps, though I don’t think it’s best for your scenario. If I had 8ft+ head pressure I would run two VarioS-8 in series. Plumbing would be much less of a concern, should be able to develop plenty of pressure to overcome restrictions, like random flow gens etc.

Yes, this is so true - very happy that I was wrong about the pump! Like finding a $20 ($1000) bill in my jacket pocket.

You are right about the GFO - it has been great at helping me with the current algae issue in my display - certainly quicker, less temperamental, and easier maintenance than the Chaeto fuge. It is almost completely gone. I have not used the lanthanum chloride, although I imagine hooking it up to a dosing pump would make it an incredibly easy phosphate solution.

+1 on the pumps in series. While I understand the dynamics well (we covered this topic thoroughly in my mechanical theory class while in Naval Nuclear Power School - and again while getting my BSME at USF) I never even considered the idea for an aquarium. (Although I did use it to do a 100% water change in my fish QT upstairs a few months ago). Great point, and may also be useful for Venturi or Beckett driven skimmers as well.

Just grabbed a couple sets of the magnets you recommended today. I can't wait to use them. No more fiddling with the Tunzes!