Need a structural engineer

[Fiziksgeek]

Hey CTARS. I am an old member from way back in 2004-5 time frame, not sure who might still be around, or if you are all new to me, but I am looking for some help. I've been tankless since a move in 2008 but we are getting the itch to set something up...something big...200-400 gallons. Probably would have done it a couple years ago, but could never figure out where in the house to put it. Now that I mostly work from home, the ideal location would be as a room divider between my office area and a sitting area. From a support perspective, it's the exact wrong place; parallel to the joists with a span that is probably already at the max for the joist size.

So, step 1, find/hire a structural engineer who can help determine what would be necessary to support the tank. Anyone have a recommendation for a structural engineer who would come to Oxford, CT?

PS: Hoping everyone makes it through the hurricane safely!

 

[Fiziksgeek]

Bueller, Bueller

No one? anyone do any home remodeling at all (not necessarily related to a tank) and had to have an engineer in to size a beam?

 

[kgstei]

Hey Welcome back. I've been AWOL from here for a while. Sometimes a Lumberyard can size of Bean for you. Here's a beam calculator that I had found have bookmarkedhttps://learnframing.com/wood-beam-calculator/

Big tanks, big loads. Is it an unfinished basement underneath? Old house or new house?

 

[Fiziksgeek]

Thanks for the reply. The house is mid 80's construction. The joists are 2x8 with about a 12' span, one end is at an exterior wall but the other end is a cross beam, about 2-3 feet away from a support column. Would be nice if it were to land right over the column, but no luck! all on the finished size of the basement of course.

So I may need 2-3 beams. 1 or 2 for the tank itself. At the exterior wall I assume all that would be needed are some additional studs to carry the load to the foundation. On the other end, the cross beam needs to be evaluated also.

The basement is about 2/3 finished. If we wanted the tank over the unfinished portion, I would rig something up with jack posts and everything would be just fine. But the wife really doesn't want any extra posts on the finished side.

 

[Isopod80]

Speak to your County/Township authority. They should be able to list some engineers in your area. They deal with them all the time. Not to mention what you're planning may need code approval. Be careful making any big alterations, especially to a load bearing wall, under the table. Not only for obvious safety reasons but if you need an inspection later for something unrelated it can really come back to bite you. This happened to a customer of mine years ago whose tank I used to service.

Hey CTARS. I am an old member from way back in 2004-5 time frame, not sure who might still be around, or if you are all new to me, but I am looking for some help. I've been tankless since a move in 2008 but we are getting the itch to set something up...something big...200-400 gallons. Probably would have done it a couple years ago, but could never figure out where in the house to put it. Now that I mostly work from home, the ideal location would be as a room divider between my office area and a sitting area. From a support perspective, it's the exact wrong place; parallel to the joists with a span that is probably already at the max for the joist size.

So, step 1, find/hire a structural engineer who can help determine what would be necessary to support the tank. Anyone have a recommendation for a structural engineer who would come to Oxford, CT?

PS: Hoping everyone makes it through the hurricane safely!

 

[kgstei]

Definately sounds like some work, especially if you're going 400g it'll be interesting without putting posts underneath Maybe lvls and a steel plate or two. If you go through with it let us know the outcome. Good luck

 

[Fiziksgeek]

Great idea to contact the local authorities. I'll try our building inspector and see if they have any contacts.

If the wife had her way, she would want whatever additional support is needed to stay within the dimensions of the 2x8 joists, which to me already screams for steel of some sort. The cost of that alone may be more than we want.

An alternative would be to skip the room divider and put the tank along the outside wall. This would have the advantage of picking up more joists. If the tank were 30-36 inches front to back, it would be easy to put a cross beam and a couple jack posts 24-30 inches away from the wall. It wouldn't be the prettiest, but the posts wouldn't be 6ft out from the wall in the middle of the basement. That may be more acceptable to my other half.

I'll will say that if we have to add something that is "permanent" to the house, we will go through the permit process and all that.

In terms of schedule, I am thinking any tank won't likely be up and running until next summer. Having been out of the hobby for about 15 years, there is a lot of research to do on what type of equipment I want. LED lights were in their infancy when I last had a tank. If people had them, it was mostly DIY creations. I think it was about the time EcoTech came out with the first Vortec power heads.

For reference, here is a pic of the 125 that I bought in 2003 or 4. Just had some T5HO lighting, used a wet/dry and a pleated filter, and a small beckett skimmer, I forge the brand, precision marine maybe? It was initially FOWLR, then I put in the T5s and got some softies.

And then we bought our first place and I did a basement remodel and put a 210 in the wall. I didn't find a picture of it completely done, but here is almost done. I was very proud of the trim job I did! Used a 75 gallon for a sump, a nice Deltec skimmer, was running 3x250W metal halides and a couple of actinic VHOs. I drilled it for a closed loop as you can see. Eventually painted the back black.

 

[Fiziksgeek]

I wouldn't have thought this would be so hard.

I've contacted a couple local contractors...one of whom we've known for years as our daughters go to school together, but no one has a recommendation for a structural engineer. I am scratching my head trying to understand this. I find it hard to believe that throughout their career they have never had to work with an engineer to design a beam to hold up a house when a client wants a wall removed or something.... I also contacted the local building inspector and he couldn't/wouldn't give me a name either. I'm confused. Either no one likes me, or they are just busy with the booming housing market and want me to leave them alone.

I sent a message out to a couple small architectural firms.....let's see if that gets me anywhere....

Just to clarify, I am not lookin for a freebie, I am looking to hire someone for an initial consultation and if it seems possible I'd pay for them to design/spec the required beams.

 

[Isopod80]

Have you tried contacting your county offices? It's impossible for me to think that code inspection couldn't list some in your area.

 

[Dburr1014]

Couldn't you tie the joists together and add some supports in the basement?

Hi by the way, been a long time. I to got out about the same time. Came back about 8 years ago.

 

[Fiziksgeek]

So the issue is knowing how much support if enough for the weight. If we go as big as we are thinking, could be 72x36x30, 340ish gallons, figure the tank will weight 4-5000 lbs. The wife doesn't want any additional posts in the finished basement.

The floor is 2x8s, 16" OC, spanning about 12'. My local lumber yard stocks LVLs I believe from Boise Cascade, so I pulled the data sheet. The 1.75x7.25 versa-lam hold 141 plf with a 12' span, so each would hold 1692lbs. Seems like 3 would do it, but maybe I would do 2 beams made of 2 versa-lams each, so just over 6700lbs of capacity. I don't know what safety factor is built into the stated capacities, or if I need to calculate it in somehow. Also, that is for an evenly distributed load. The tank will load half the beam, as it will go from one wall half was across the room. I don't know what the uneven distribution does to the calculations, but I assume it would be lower than for the evenly distributed load.

So do I need to go up to a 9.5' LVL that has almost double the capacity? Or should I just overkill is and go with the 12" lvl with has 4x? Or am I reading the data sheet incorrectly and none of what I said makes any sense...?

 

[Dburr1014]

Maybe you could call the manufacturer and have them explain everything to you

 

[Fiziksgeek]

Good news. I talked with my local lumber yard. They offer design services for engineered lumber and trusses, etc. I made up a drawing of the room with joist sizing, spans, tank size, and expected weight and they ran it through some software and sized beams for me and provided the calculations for deflection and what not. Looks like qty 6 of the 1.75x7.25 LVLs will do it. It will be 2 beams, each made of 3 of the LVLs. I am looking at either a steel or aluminum stand with leveling feet along he two long sides, and I will place the beams directly under the long sides. Still a few details in terms of exact measurements, but all if the LVL will be around $600, not too shabby.

 

[Dburr1014]

Nice!

 

[kgstei]

That doesn't sound so bad. What size tank is that for? I'm guessing one side of those lpl's will be resting on the foundation is there a post catching that weight on the other side?

 

[Fiziksgeek]

I asked them to size everything for a 72 x 36 x 30, which is just shy of 350 gallons. So ~3000 lbs of water, I figure another 1,000 lbs for the tank and stand, I am planning a remote sump, add rock, sand fish, coral etc, so I figured 5,000 lbs max to have some wiggle room with a 72x36 footprint. Not sure if I will go that size, or perhaps a bit smaller. 72x36x24 (~280 gallons) or 72x30x24 (~230 gallons)?? I would prefer the bigger size, but maintenance is a concern. Being a peninsula will help as I'll have access from both long sides....Need to nail down the tank size before installing the beams so that I can space them appropriately to pick up the tank.

One end is the outside wall, its a walk out basement, so the foundation is like a knee wall...a little higher...like a belly button wall. above that its a traditional framed wall. I plan to run 3 - 2x6 from the beam to to the top of the foundation for support. The other end will rest on an existing beam, BUT, I had them size additional lvl on that end to sister to the existing beam. I plan to support the cross beam either jack posts or lally columns placed right next to the existing lally columns. So although I don't think its necessary, they should be on top of the footer for the existing columns. It's a shorter span, about 7', and they sized me a 2 ply beam of the same 1.75x7.25 lvls.

Basically, I had them design a system that will be mostly invisible, would be removable (with a little work), and does not require any modification to the existing framing. It's in addition to the existing framing, not replacing it.

 

[kgstei]

Sounds like you have it covered. It would make a cool build thread.

 

[TeerApat]

I think it's awesome to reconnect after all these years. Setting up a tank sounds like an exciting project, especially with the idea of using it as a room divider. However, ensuring the structural integrity is crucial, especially given the challenging location parallel to the joists. While I don't have a specific recommendation for a structural engineer in Oxford, CT, have you thought about reaching out to Building Designer Brisbane? They might offer some fresh perspectives on blending modern design with traditional houses and could possibly provide insights or recommendations for a structural engineer.

 

[Fiziksgeek]

I think it's awesome to reconnect after all these years. Setting up a tank sounds like an exciting project, especially with the idea of using it as a room divider. However, ensuring the structural integrity is crucial, especially given the challenging location parallel to the joists. While I don't have a specific recommendation for a structural engineer in Oxford, CT, have you thought about reaching out to Building Designer Brisbane? They might offer some fresh perspectives on blending modern design with traditional houses and could possibly provide insights or recommendations for a structural engineer.

Clearly Spam...This thread is 2.5 years old...the engineering was done, the tank is now more than a year old...oh, and you are on a different continent....?? And this was their very first post...

 

[Dburr1014]

The beam shipping from Australia would be more than the beam itself!