Need Electrical help

[Chameleon]

So I am installing a lot of wire in my house because it was all done with 12/2 without ground probably back sometime in the 50's. Some of the house has more up to date electrical. In the process I found out my grounding terminal in my 100A sub-panel is full. Is there any way to extend this terminal? It only had 6 or so ports.

 

[DaveMorris]

You can add an additional ground bar in the box if you have room for it. Grounding usually is connected to the box itself so it should be very easy. That being said, if you have any doubts, I would get an electrician to do it. Local codes and things unique to your particular scenario could be different.

 

[ReeferBob]

Usually you can put two wires in each hole of the gounding bar. Also I suspect your house does have a ground. You may not have 3 prong outlets, but the ground is there connected to the metal box so the 2 prong plugs are grounded since they touch the box. You can just replace them with a 3 prong outlet and it will also be grounded since it also touches the metal box.

 

[Chameleon]

Usually you can put two wires in each hole of the gounding bar. Also I suspect your house does have a ground. You may not have 3 prong outlets, but the ground is there connected to the metal box so the 2 prong plugs are grounded since they touch the box. You can just replace them with a 3 prong outlet and it will also be grounded since it also touches the metal box.

is it safe to put two in one? I would think they are designed to hold one and putting two may result in a clamp failure later. All outlets are 3 prong, but the wire is all 12/2 no G. I have spent some time reworking the electrical on two circuits already(was 1 15A circuit but it was like half the house including kitchen, office, bathroom, attic, and outdoor lights, yikes!) and while its all roughed in I haven't gotten it into the box yet. There was some 14 gauge wire used here and there, but now everything is either 12/2G or 12/3G (3 way switches). I divided it into two circuits and one will be 20A and the other I will be keeping the 15A breaker for now. Now I am at the point where I am about ready to cut a hole in the wall to access the outside of my recessed sub-panel, but realized I didn't have enough ground terminals so I am holding off until I get the issue resolved.

 

[Chameleon]

You can add an additional ground bar in the box if you have room for it. Grounding usually is connected to the box itself so it should be very easy. That being said, if you have any doubts, I would get an electrician to do it. Local codes and things unique to your particular scenario could be different.

I saw the extended grounding bards at the hardware store. This will probably be the route I choose I just need to make sure I am doing it the right way. I didn't want to extend a ground that shouldn't be extended. Time for some research on my part. Thanks for the help!

 

[Chameleon]

Just and idea of what I am working with....the old electrical had splices not in boxes with about 18'' of exposed wire(insulated) with tension stress on the splice sites and yellow nuts for 4 wire splices...fun fun

 

[ReeferBob]

Yes it is perfectly safe and I am pretty sure code to share the ground bar with more then one ground in each hole. My box has 2 in each hole and that is how the electrician wired it.

Also don't forget NO hidden junction boxes! Even if that means you need to rewire all of those splices.

 

[Chameleon]

Yes it is perfectly safe and I am pretty sure code to share the ground bar with more then one ground in each hole. My box has 2 in each hole and that is how the electrician wired it.

Also don't forget NO hidden junction boxes! Even if that means you need to rewire all of those splices.

Thanks! I am in the process of rewiring everything. By hidden what exactly do they mean? Does that mean not behind drywall? I am doing most of the stuff in the attic so I dont think it should be a problem. Do they mean you cant cover it with insulation? Ill look into it.

 

[redfishbluefish]

You say the wiring is 12/2 with no ground. However, if it is BX wire (metal sheathed wire), that outer metal sheath is the ground.

 

[Chameleon]

You say the wiring is 12/2 with no ground. However, if it is BX wire (metal sheathed wire), that outer metal sheath is the ground.

its not...that is just old cloth wrapped wire....

 

[redfishbluefish]

its not...that is just old cloth wrapped wire....

Ouch! You have OLD two wire Romex wire. Although the national code allows individual ground wires to be run toexisting “grounded” circuits, some local codes do not allow this. You’re best bet is to do what you aredoing, replace with new “grounded” romex or BX, if your local code requires BX.

 

[Reef Pets]

Yes, it is safe and not against code to put more than one ground wire per terminal. You should be able to fit three 12 gauge wires in one hole. I'm a a licensed electrician therefore I can assure you that the information is correct. I've wired more houses than I care to remember...

 

[Bow]

If its a sub panel the grounds and neutrals should be separated. If you only have one panel in the house then you can put 2 wires under the same lug, try to use the same size wire.

 

[ReeferBob]

Thanks! I am in the process of rewiring everything. By hidden what exactly do they mean? Does that mean not behind drywall? I am doing most of the stuff in the attic so I dont think it should be a problem. Do they mean you cant cover it with insulation? Ill look into it.

You can have a junction box in an attic. You can't have one hidden behind drywall. I think the blown in insulation would be ok to cover it but not the R-22 stuff.

 

[OrionN]

Just from that one picture you posted, I am sure that your electrical is not up to code. Did you have an inspection before you buy your house? You may want too get an electrician to insect your house, then you know what you are dealing with.

 

[Coral Hind]

Yes, it is safe and not against code to put more than one ground wire per terminal. You should be able to fit three 12 gauge wires in one hole. I'm a a licensed electrician therefore I can assure you that the information is correct. I've wired more houses than I care to remember...

It may be fine according to the NEC but that is just a general guideline and the local code enforcement office might not allow it. It's best to always check with your local inspector since what might work in one guys state might not work in another.

Also, was the panel approved to allow double tapping on a ground screw? If your house burned down and the insurance company or fire inspector found out you didn't wired the panel to how it was designed or intended you would be in a tight spot getting the claim paid. Just something to think about.

 

[ReeferBob]

It may be fine according to the NEC but that is just a general guideline and the local code enforcement office might not allow it. It's best to always check with your local inspector since what might work in one guys state might not work in another.

Also, was the panel approved to allow double tapping on a ground screw? If your house burned down and the insurance company or fire inspector found out you didn't wired the panel to how it was designed or intended you would be in a tight spot getting the claim paid. Just something to think about.

The only thing I agree with here is that the box should be rated for multiple wires in each ground terminal. The insurance part is totally wrong but a common misconception. Doesn't NEC = NATIONAL electrical code?

 

[OrionN]

Just from that picture of the spice wire not in a junction box, that house electical is not up to code. If you have to ask for help online, you need to get a profesional to look at the whole house.

 

[Chameleon]

I did have an inspection, and the old un-grounded electrical was identified and we worked that into the contract price.

Also an electrician (family friend) did come by and give me some pointers and tips for the rewire. We put in a 20A circuit off the main 200A panel to the basement for the fish tank so I could get my feet wet and see how the work is done. The issue about the sub-panel being limited on grounding terminals did not come up at the time.

 

[Chameleon]

And thanks for the tips everyone....sounds like I will have an easy fix of just using terminals for multiple wires, but I'll check the local codes to be sure