need help identifying this please

[ImGood]

I have a Toby that's been in a 20 g qt for 12 days,with a Mandy ,6 line wrasse, and orange spot goby,they were in an rid ich plus treatment for 9 days.started them on melafix on Wednesday the fish are eating healthily, the Toby has me concerned,I am unable to identify its problem,did I discontinue the ridick plus too soon? What Should I be treating for?

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

It looks like velvet. You will need to remove the existing treatment chemicals and begin copper treatment ASAP.

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

The Rid Ich should've begun to work if it were ich, but copper will treat both ich and velvet.

 

[ImGood]

Will the Mandarin , wrasse and goby be ok with a copper treatment ?

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

Nevermind, I was thinking about Kick Ich which is not copper-based.

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

You already have them all in copper treatment. The one thing I can think of is that the copper hasn't completely gotten rid of the problem if the concentrations is too low.

EDIT: I read an incorrect review on Amazon. This stuff does not contain copper.

 

[ImGood]

I think the rid I have has formalin. Not copper, but I was wrong once before

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

I'm sorry, I read the wrong information on the internet. If you're using Rid Ich plus, it definitely does NOT contain copper according to the manufacturer's website and will only provide temporary relief from velvet.

You should begin copper treatment ASAP.

Your copper levels should be 0.2-0.5 mg/L if unchelated, and 1.5-2 mg/L if you're using chelated copper.

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

I think the rid I have has formalin. Not copper, but I was wrong once before

You are correct. It has formalin and malachite green, not copper. Formalin will only provide temporary relief from velvet, assuming the levels are in the therapeutic range.

 

[ImGood]

Will the other fish be ok in scooper treatment?

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

It's a crapshoot on the Mandarin. Some people say they are sensitive, other say they are not. I have no experience with them. They have a thick slime coat and, as such, should be more resistant to ich. Not sure about velvet.

Wrasses can be sensitive to copper, so use caution.

Gobies can also be sensitive, so the same caution should be applied.

 

[melypr1985]

It would be worth your while to try to get ahold of some Chloroquine Phosphate from a Vet. The mandarin may not do well in copper and the puffer is 50/50 on whether he will tolerate the copper as well. But that does look like velvet and quick action is needed. I think if you can't get the CP quickly then you may get a chelated copper like Coppersafe or Copperpower and ramp it up a little slower than we usually recommend for velvet to give the animals time to adjust. Though with velvet they are likely to die anyway, so it's kind of a rock and a hard place type of situation. Your going with the lesser of two evils by ramping up the copper quickly to hopefully save them from the velvet that will surely kill them without the copper.

Velvet kills quickly so whatever you decide to do, do it asap.

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

It would be worth your while to try to get ahold of some Chloroquine Phosphate from a Vet. The mandarin may not do well in copper and the puffer is 50/50 on whether he will tolerate the copper as well. But that does look like velvet and quick action is needed. I think if you can't get the CP quickly then you may get a chelated copper like Coppersafe or Copperpower and ramp it up a little slower than we usually recommend for velvet to give the animals time to adjust. Though with velvet they are likely to die anyway, so it's kind of a rock and a hard place type of situation. Your going with the lesser of two evils by ramping up the copper quickly to hopefully save them from the velvet that will surely kill them without the copper.

Velvet kills quickly so whatever you decide to do, do it asap.

Agreed. Just so that the OP knows that there is hope, I had a powder blue tang in QT that developed velvet very quickly. 48 hours after beginning copper treatment, 95% of the velvet was gone, and within 54 hours, no visible signs of velvet. You will need to maintain therapeutic copper levels for at least 14 days and possibly up to 30 days. FWIW.

 

[melypr1985]

It's best to go the full 30 days of copper. Better safe than sorry ;)

 

[ImGood]

Looks as though the puffer is going to an isolation suite , with copper safe treatment .trying to locate a vet, have to wait until tomorrow , to get the meds for the gobies & wrasse ,keep you posted..... And. Thanks .

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

Looks as though the puffer is going to an isolation suite , with copper safe treatment .trying to locate a vet, have to wait until tomorrow , to get the meds for the gobies & wrasse ,keep you posted..... And. Thanks .

Awesome and good luck! I was really down a few days ago when my PBT looked like he was covered in dryer lint. Here's what he looks like after copper for about 57 hours: :)

There is hope, but get on it! :)

 

[ImGood]

Thanks I'll take all the luck I can get!!

 

[Humblefish]

It would be worth your while to try to get ahold of some Chloroquine Phosphate from a Vet. The mandarin may not do well in copper and the puffer is 50/50 on whether he will tolerate the copper as well. But that does look like velvet and quick action is needed. I think if you can't get the CP quickly then you may get a chelated copper like Coppersafe or Copperpower and ramp it up a little slower than we usually recommend for velvet to give the animals time to adjust. Though with velvet they are likely to die anyway, so it's kind of a rock and a hard place type of situation. Your going with the lesser of two evils by ramping up the copper quickly to hopefully save them from the velvet that will surely kill them without the copper.

Velvet kills quickly so whatever you decide to do, do it asap.

^^ This. Rid Ich Plus contains formalin, which will provide temporary relief for velvet, but will not completely eradicate it. You really are in a pickle with both the puffer & mandarin unless you can get quick access to CP. Both fish are unlikely to survive copper treatment. :(

If I were in your shoes I would try something unconventional: Isolate the puffer & mandy away from all your other fish (treat the other fish with copper.)

For the mandy/puffer: Do a 5 min FW dip, and then transfer both into a 5 gallon bucket with freshly mixed SW (SG/temp matched to their QT). In the bucket, perform a chemical bath (using Rid Ich Plus) for 9 hours. Then transfer both fish into a sterile QT, using all new water/equipment. The hope here is that between the FW dip and prolonged chemical bath, it will force the dislodgement of trophonts from the fish, allowing them to be transferred to a clean aquarium free of infestation. I will provide more details in my next post.

 

[Humblefish]

Freshwater Dip: Provides temporary relief for Brooklynella, Flukes & "Black Ich", Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly even Ich & Uronema marinum (both unproven). Can be used to confirm the presence of Flukes.

How To Treat - Fill a bucket with RODI water, and use a heater to match the temperature to the water the fish is coming from. Aerate the water heavily for at least 30 minutes prior to doing the dip, then discontinue aeration while performing the dip. Fish aren’t overly pH sensitive for short durations like this, but you can squirt a little tank water into the dip just before the fish goes in to help bring it up.

Place the fish in the freshwater (FW) dip and observe closely. It is not unusual for them to freak out a little at first. Also, tangs are notorious for “playing dead” during a FW dip. The important thing is to watch their gills; they should be breathing heavily at all times during the dip. If breathing slows, it’s time to exit the dip. Dip the fish for no longer than 5 minutes. Multiple dips may be done, but it’s important to give your fish a day to recuperate in-between dips.

For flukes, use a dark (preferably black) bucket so you can see if tiny white worms fall out of the fish (especially out of the gills) at around the 3-4 minute mark. The worms will settle to the bottom, so you can use a flashlight to look for them there as well.

Pros - Provides temporary relief for a wide range of diseases in a chemical free environment. Can “buy you more time” until a proper treatment can be done.

Cons/Side Effects - Not a permanent “fix” for any disease, as FW dips are not potent enough to eradicate all of the parasites/worms afflicting the fish. Some fish can have an adverse reaction to a FW dip by appearing unable to maintain their equilibrium once returned to the aquarium. If this happens, hold the fish upright (using latex, nitrile or rubber gloves), and gently glide him through the water (to get saltwater flowing through the gills again). It is also a good idea to place the fish in an acclimation box until he appears “normal”.


Rid Ich Plus: Dose this in 5 gallons of water at a rate of 17ml (just a tad over 1 tablespoon). Keep the fish in this bath solution for 9 hours before transferring to a fresh QT, free of chemicals.

 

[Humblefish]

^^ Just wanted to add that the above is NOT guaranteed to work, and exposing your fish to formalin at that high of a concentration might even kill them. And you may need to repeat this procedure more than once. However, unless you can get your hands on some Chloroquine phosphate in the next day or two, the above game plan gives these two particular fish the best possible chance of surviving. But there are risks. :oops: