Reefcowboy
Well-Known Member
IF the modules you want coming up are "supported" by the classic Apex...thats the reason for all fuss going around.
New apex worth upgrading to?
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CuseReefer
Active Member
Yeah ignoring that fact. If they aren't... Then it's worthless to stick with Apex. Competitors will take advantage of this and steal business. If I have to respend $800 I am going to look at all new options.
I knew something was up when a month after I bought my Apex gold they started discounting the DOS. If Ecotec would come out with a controller I would definitely make the plunge and upgrade.
zoomonster
Valuable Member
I reviewed it all again and the answer is no not worth an upgrade to me. I have probably 1300+ tied up in Apex control and I don't use DOS, WAV or can opener feeder. Assuming we don't get screwed on Fusion it should be good for some years to come assuming no hardware failures and even if they stop releasing controller/module updates. I think its safe to say they will be busy for years to come making the new system right/adding features and there won't be anything in the way of real legacy software updates anymore.
1) That silver and orange is just tacky and junky looking. Most people have wood, black or white tanks/stands. My display looks pretty good sitting on the side of a black stand. The black controller and modules look good mounted in a black stand. Just no aesthetics. Maybe they should have called this Apex millennial edition
Of course for the same price the display is not included in the bundle and if you want to buy one more silver and orange. Maybe just my preference but black would have looked 1000% better.
2) Words don't even describe that new controller (pencil sharpener?). Just ugly, bulky and I'll take the flat unit any day. Ok it has wireless and a built in salinity port but the PM2 salinity module and probe were included with gold for the same price. On the fence about the tilt. I'll be interested to see one in person and if its the junky plastic it appears.
3) The EB832... better outlets, supposedly, but other than potentially using the 24v plugs most of it features are to get you using Apex items like DOS or feeder neither of which I have bought because they have so many issues. Yeah useful I suppose if you bought into the WAV. Ok via fusion you can monitor power consumption on individual outlets which is nice. Other than that too bulky compared to EB8 and more tacky silver and orange. The kicker is they screwed the entire customer base making it not backwards compatible. Otherwise I might have at least considering buying one (I have two EB8's). Also just noticed they are all 8a outlets now vs 5a/10a on classic. Most people will never use 5a on an outlet unless you have MH which is what I used the 10a's for.
4) The new mounting brackets are a good idea assuming not cheap plastic. What really made me laugh is that they are selling module upgrade kits so you can make them silver and orange and get the new bracket.
5) Its nice they have some new items like mini pumps and solenoids etc but has little to do with a new controller. Unless of course that's another stab in the back in that they are not supported by apex "classic".
6) Classic is what 6 years old now and they still have not ironed out all the kinks or addressed current users wants. Based on my experiences with support and hardware out of box (years after release) working I pity the fool that buys this anytime soon. I certainly would not want to be effectively Apex beta for a year or more.
7) I'm sure it will come later but I don't recall a mention of a cpu and memory upgrade? Would be nice if it was able to store more history and has more power.
8) Perhaps the only dime Neptune will get is for the new probes if and when mine needs replacement. Out of all the probes the one with the most issues is salinity and its the one left unchanged.
9) Classic marketing. Lets drop a bomb, make everyone obsolete and entice everyone to pay all over again. The only people that will benefit are the bargain shoppers looking for fire sale prices on used/new current apex products. Although if the new comparison I saw at BRS is correct there is now only a classic w/lab grade at $549 and no gold. So to get to gold level it would cost as much or more than the new package. Also insult to injury they are only offering a package. For existing customers there is no upgrade path i.e. you can't just buy a new control unit. You can buy an EB832 but not much good without new controller.
10) I suspect so many bombs to come with Fusion compatibility. I'll go out on a limb and guarantee fusion will only be able to upgrade the firmware/software on the new unit which I assume will also dish out module updates. Other than hardwired never really understood the issues people have with upgrades. New release and couple minutes and done for me.
11) At least on the surface it would appear aquabus is unchanged so you won't have to run out and buy new modules (for now). Also will be interesting to see when you upgrade if you have to start over and reprogram everything or if you can export settings. My current has been running two years and it took me a while to get everything exactly the way I wanted it.
12) The new unit is wireless and you can do updates via wireless but its not clear if that new wireless connectivity replaces modules like the wxm for controlling things like Ecotech. I would assume so but its anyone's guess. Also would be nice if they mention what wireless standard they are using. Did they cheap out and go with slow old tech? I would hope its at least G.
Almost makes me wish I had of gone with Profilux. A concept they grasp is upgradability. Maybe when I eventually upgrade it will be to Profilux. This would also be a very good time for Ecotech to enter with a complete controller product.
1) That silver and orange is just tacky and junky looking. Most people have wood, black or white tanks/stands. My display looks pretty good sitting on the side of a black stand. The black controller and modules look good mounted in a black stand. Just no aesthetics. Maybe they should have called this Apex millennial edition
Of course for the same price the display is not included in the bundle and if you want to buy one more silver and orange. Maybe just my preference but black would have looked 1000% better.2) Words don't even describe that new controller (pencil sharpener?). Just ugly, bulky and I'll take the flat unit any day. Ok it has wireless and a built in salinity port but the PM2 salinity module and probe were included with gold for the same price. On the fence about the tilt. I'll be interested to see one in person and if its the junky plastic it appears.
3) The EB832... better outlets, supposedly, but other than potentially using the 24v plugs most of it features are to get you using Apex items like DOS or feeder neither of which I have bought because they have so many issues. Yeah useful I suppose if you bought into the WAV. Ok via fusion you can monitor power consumption on individual outlets which is nice. Other than that too bulky compared to EB8 and more tacky silver and orange. The kicker is they screwed the entire customer base making it not backwards compatible. Otherwise I might have at least considering buying one (I have two EB8's). Also just noticed they are all 8a outlets now vs 5a/10a on classic. Most people will never use 5a on an outlet unless you have MH which is what I used the 10a's for.
4) The new mounting brackets are a good idea assuming not cheap plastic. What really made me laugh is that they are selling module upgrade kits so you can make them silver and orange and get the new bracket.
5) Its nice they have some new items like mini pumps and solenoids etc but has little to do with a new controller. Unless of course that's another stab in the back in that they are not supported by apex "classic".
6) Classic is what 6 years old now and they still have not ironed out all the kinks or addressed current users wants. Based on my experiences with support and hardware out of box (years after release) working I pity the fool that buys this anytime soon. I certainly would not want to be effectively Apex beta for a year or more.
7) I'm sure it will come later but I don't recall a mention of a cpu and memory upgrade? Would be nice if it was able to store more history and has more power.
8) Perhaps the only dime Neptune will get is for the new probes if and when mine needs replacement. Out of all the probes the one with the most issues is salinity and its the one left unchanged.
9) Classic marketing. Lets drop a bomb, make everyone obsolete and entice everyone to pay all over again. The only people that will benefit are the bargain shoppers looking for fire sale prices on used/new current apex products. Although if the new comparison I saw at BRS is correct there is now only a classic w/lab grade at $549 and no gold. So to get to gold level it would cost as much or more than the new package. Also insult to injury they are only offering a package. For existing customers there is no upgrade path i.e. you can't just buy a new control unit. You can buy an EB832 but not much good without new controller.
10) I suspect so many bombs to come with Fusion compatibility. I'll go out on a limb and guarantee fusion will only be able to upgrade the firmware/software on the new unit which I assume will also dish out module updates. Other than hardwired never really understood the issues people have with upgrades. New release and couple minutes and done for me.
11) At least on the surface it would appear aquabus is unchanged so you won't have to run out and buy new modules (for now). Also will be interesting to see when you upgrade if you have to start over and reprogram everything or if you can export settings. My current has been running two years and it took me a while to get everything exactly the way I wanted it.
12) The new unit is wireless and you can do updates via wireless but its not clear if that new wireless connectivity replaces modules like the wxm for controlling things like Ecotech. I would assume so but its anyone's guess. Also would be nice if they mention what wireless standard they are using. Did they cheap out and go with slow old tech? I would hope its at least G.
Almost makes me wish I had of gone with Profilux. A concept they grasp is upgradability. Maybe when I eventually upgrade it will be to Profilux. This would also be a very good time for Ecotech to enter with a complete controller product.
Honestly Im not sure anymore of the correct way. I think your ok if your heater has an internal thermostat and the apex is used for redundancy or the other way around....the apex works the heater and the internal thermostat is your back redundancy. I was using the titanium heaters that are just the heating element. I went and bought the finnex heater controller as a secondary precaution just in case.
Anyways back to the topic at hand, I think the first company to come out with a reliable functioning Alk probe wins everyone money!
Sabellafella
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Dude im 100% not updating my firmware for a long long time haha
zoomonster
Valuable Member
So true... if someone came out with a decent system that had an alkalinity probe/module I'd probably jump on it.
PS let your external or internal heater controller do its thing and have Apex as the backup for that to turn off power to the heater/heater controller.
hybridazn
Acro killer.....
I won't be upgrading anytime soon, but if and whenever the new brain becomes available to purchase I probably will do so and run that with my current setup. Will I eventually get the new eb832? Probably not since I don't have a use for the 1link or the accessory ports. Of course that's not saying I will down the road, but right now I'm good.
jnw240reef
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I won't be upgrading. I don't care about individual outlet amps. I have killawatt meter. I don't use Wav. I have 3x dos but only using 1 AWC. I'm happy with the extra power bricks. Would rather 1 go bad instead of losing 3 things plugged into 1link.
Larry L
Valuable Member
I think the Vertex controller is the future and based on android.
I have android phone, I am looking at a android smart TV, and I am looking at getting android auto for my car..
If you could eventually tie them all together. Alerts in your car or while watching tv etc.
Plus it is open source which allows for people to write all kinds of cool stuff for it.
The new apex is really just a different package for the apex gold with a faster processor.
It does not add more 0-10v which is needed more than a new power strip.
Apex has been saying the new standard is 0-10v for anyone making things comparable with the Apex.. Well guess what if you need more and you will with DC pumps or LED control as they become more popular you will need to buy a vdm for another 100 bucks. Huge mistake.
I have android phone, I am looking at a android smart TV, and I am looking at getting android auto for my car..
If you could eventually tie them all together. Alerts in your car or while watching tv etc.
Plus it is open source which allows for people to write all kinds of cool stuff for it.
The new apex is really just a different package for the apex gold with a faster processor.
It does not add more 0-10v which is needed more than a new power strip.
Apex has been saying the new standard is 0-10v for anyone making things comparable with the Apex.. Well guess what if you need more and you will with DC pumps or LED control as they become more popular you will need to buy a vdm for another 100 bucks. Huge mistake.
CuseReefer
Active Member
Should 1) add more ports and 2) make they configurable to be either PWM or 0-10V. The bluefish led controller has this functionality. Covers all basis.
tigé21v
Active Member
I wavered for probably two years between the Apex and Profilux. Finally went with Apex about nine months ago. When I first saw news about the release of the new system, my initial reaction was "Great. Now my new apex is old technology." But the more I read about it, the less it bothered me.
I've been very happy with my Apex. It can do more than I think I'll ever ask it to- no tech geek here. And, I'm financially into it up waaay past my back pocket to consider upgrading. Between EB8's ,EB4's, DOS's and all the modules, (heck, all the darn 15' Aquabus cables alone) I'd take a bath if I were to try to sell it off.
I like that they put higher rated receptacles in the energy bar. And the DC ports I am sure will be nice, even if buyers don't plan on using them immediately... But why go to plastic? They decided to build the EB4's and 8's in the same housing they used for the DC's. As well they should have. Sleek, compact, functional. Metal. Why change a good design?
And why that color scheme?? I own 2 DOS, and to be honest, I almost passed on them because of the color alone. They look like something I think I saw in a Dr. Who episode in the 1980's. But, even though I'm pretty sure I could've picked up another EB4 and four BRS pumps for less than the cost of two DOS, I didn't want all the extra wires. So I just made sure to hide the DOS from view.
Black. Black looks good. Black goes with anything. Gray is not bad either. Nice neutral color. But gray and orangey-yellow is a hard color to compliment on the Color Wheel. This may seem petty to some, but, I still live in the Dark Ages- Metal Halides. VHO's. AC pumps. MTC Mazzei skimmer. Black equipment. Not to mention, the last thing I want controlling my tank or to have amps upon amps of electricity plugged into is something with a color combination that would be eye-catching to a toddler/ young kid..
And to ship it without a wired control head wouldn't work for me. More times than not I don't have my phone on me when I'm working around my tank. (Did I mention I'm not a tech geek?) To have to go and grab my phone if I decided I wanted to shut something off or put things into feed mode (if I ever decided to use the feed mode option) would get old fast.
As popular as the "classic" Apex seems to be, it would be appreciated if Neptune treated the "classic" as their Windows XP. I really hope Apex doesn't forget about all of us who gave them the financial resources to go out and develop their new top-of-the-line system...
I've been very happy with my Apex. It can do more than I think I'll ever ask it to- no tech geek here. And, I'm financially into it up waaay past my back pocket to consider upgrading. Between EB8's ,EB4's, DOS's and all the modules, (heck, all the darn 15' Aquabus cables alone) I'd take a bath if I were to try to sell it off.
I like that they put higher rated receptacles in the energy bar. And the DC ports I am sure will be nice, even if buyers don't plan on using them immediately... But why go to plastic? They decided to build the EB4's and 8's in the same housing they used for the DC's. As well they should have. Sleek, compact, functional. Metal. Why change a good design?
And why that color scheme?? I own 2 DOS, and to be honest, I almost passed on them because of the color alone. They look like something I think I saw in a Dr. Who episode in the 1980's. But, even though I'm pretty sure I could've picked up another EB4 and four BRS pumps for less than the cost of two DOS, I didn't want all the extra wires. So I just made sure to hide the DOS from view.
Black. Black looks good. Black goes with anything. Gray is not bad either. Nice neutral color. But gray and orangey-yellow is a hard color to compliment on the Color Wheel. This may seem petty to some, but, I still live in the Dark Ages- Metal Halides. VHO's. AC pumps. MTC Mazzei skimmer. Black equipment. Not to mention, the last thing I want controlling my tank or to have amps upon amps of electricity plugged into is something with a color combination that would be eye-catching to a toddler/ young kid..
And to ship it without a wired control head wouldn't work for me. More times than not I don't have my phone on me when I'm working around my tank. (Did I mention I'm not a tech geek?) To have to go and grab my phone if I decided I wanted to shut something off or put things into feed mode (if I ever decided to use the feed mode option) would get old fast.
As popular as the "classic" Apex seems to be, it would be appreciated if Neptune treated the "classic" as their Windows XP. I really hope Apex doesn't forget about all of us who gave them the financial resources to go out and develop their new top-of-the-line system...
Why did Terrance say not to use the Apex for heaters? I am and haven't had any issues with them. Now that make me worried.
I'm not going, I'm still a geek although a retired geek and being retired doesn't always mean well off. I used to be " keep up with the Jones" but not anymore. Mine is a year old and I'm more than happy with it. And in all reality more than what I need. ( I have a JBJ 45 gallon nano) I got it for a steal. But even if I wanted I would wait to see the bugs worked out
Sppf121
Active Member
Lol just opened mine yesterday hours before the announcement. That kind of sucks, but mine fits really well and I ran a direct cat 5E cable to it so I really don't need wifi. Looking forward to looking at the aquarium. The apex is a tool not the reason we are here. That being said you guys made me feel a lot better. Thanks
So happy it seems like they will be similar. I have never been able to afford "keeping up with the Jones " why start now lol.
So happy it seems like they will be similar. I have never been able to afford "keeping up with the Jones " why start now lol.
phish2277
Active Member
I am looking for some input. I all most pulled the gun and bought the apec classic. Now with the new release, I am wondering if I should buy it instead of the classic. Any input would be greatly appreciate. I am new to apex.
Imho. If you're brand new to apex and have the cash the new one is a good choice. A lot of us current users are expressing our thoughts about said investment and the worth to buy new.
Either way you're choosing a good product. Look at what you want to monitor and control and go from there.
LOL
That was when I was a computer consultant and made a little bit more money than I do now and although at one time I had 12 computers I only always upgraded one and in all reality I did that more out of necessity than anything but I was making a point. And if you think about it I wonder how many of us on this forum upgrade things when something new comes out? I would imagine a few do
Kungpaoshizi
Valuable Member
I think the larger problem is with some of the users as well. They don't speak up.
Every time someone asks about 'what's the best controller?' people come forward and argue the apex is amazing. I think this is mainly geared from either lack of trying other controllers or not wanting to feel regret from spending more money on a product many people don't make for income in 2 months.
The apex is pretty awesome, and quite an accomplishment, but I always felt like they came out with new stuff and never addressed the glaring problems with what they just came out with. Just my opinion, but I foresee a couple years of beta testing. Now the classic stuff is a big concern, very valid, but I guess they need to revise their 'customer feedback' guidelines. And the orange I always hated lol...
Every time someone asks about 'what's the best controller?' people come forward and argue the apex is amazing. I think this is mainly geared from either lack of trying other controllers or not wanting to feel regret from spending more money on a product many people don't make for income in 2 months.
The apex is pretty awesome, and quite an accomplishment, but I always felt like they came out with new stuff and never addressed the glaring problems with what they just came out with. Just my opinion, but I foresee a couple years of beta testing. Now the classic stuff is a big concern, very valid, but I guess they need to revise their 'customer feedback' guidelines. And the orange I always hated lol...
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