New build Dr Tim’s Fish less cycle

[jcmental]

Good morning peeps.
Well I’m back after a few years away from the hobby, I shut down my reef tank and just ran a fresh water set up, Christ it was boring.
Any hoo, I have a question about Dr Tim’s fish less cycle.
How often should I dose the ammonium chloride? I know the amount but I can’t find a definitive answer to when or wether to re dose?

 

[Reefahholic]

Good morning peeps.
Well I’m back after a few years away from the hobby, I shut down my reef tank and just ran a fresh water set up, Christ it was boring.
Any hoo, I have a question about Dr Tim’s fish less cycle.
How often should I dose the ammonium chloride? I know the amount but I can’t find a definitive answer to when or wether to re dose?

This is subjective according to some…but here you go:


DrTim’s instructions for fishless cycle:

* Day 1 – dose ammonia to 2 ppm ammonia-nitrogen [NH3-N] using our ammonium chloride [After Nov 2016 when using DrTim’s ammonium chloride use 4 drops per gallon] [NOTE: do not expect your test kit to exactly read 2 ppm and it is not critical to get exactly 2 ppm. The key is to not add too much ammonia]. If using DrTim’s Aquatics One & Only Live Nitrifying bacteria add it now (turn skimmer, UV and ozone off and remove filter socks for 48 hours).
* Day 2 – Measure ammonia and nitrite.
* Day 3 – If ammonia and nitrite are below 1 ppm add more ammonia: four drops of our ammonium chloride per gallon (check the label).
* Days 4 & 5 – Measure ammonia and nitrite.
* Day 6 – If ammonia and nitrite are below 1 ppm add 2 ppm ammonia. Four drops of our ammonium chloride per gallon. [NOTE: since you have added the One & Only your ammonia kit will not read 2 ppm and DO NOT continue adding ammonia trying to get to 2 ppm – just add 2 ppm ammonia (4 drops per gallon of our ammonium chloride) and carry-on.
* Days 7 & 8 – Measure ammonia and nitrite. On the first measurement day (Day 2, 4, 5, 7 or 8) that BOTH ammonia and nitrite are both below 0.5 ppm (NH3-N or NO2-N) your tank is close to being cycled.


* Now start to measure ammonia and nitrite every day.
* When BOTH ammonia and nitrite are below 0.2 ppm (NH3-N or NO2-N), add another 2 ppm ammonia.
* Continue to measure every day. When you can add 2 ppm ammonia and BOTH ammonia and nitrite are below 0.2 ppm (NH3-N or NO2-N) the next day your tank is cycled – congrats! You’re done!
* Do a partial water change and add some fish.
* If either ammonia or nitrite concentration get above 5 ppm, do water changes to lower the concentration.
* Do not let the pH drop below 7. If it does, do a partial water change to bring the pH back up.
* Do not add ammonia removers to bind the ammonia – overdosing with these products will just increase the cycling time.
* You do not have to add ammonia everyday – the bacteria do not have to be fed every day. Adding ammonia everyday will results in a sky-high nitrite reading and slow the cycling process.

 

[jcmental]

This is subjective according to some…but here you go:


DrTim’s instructions for fishless cycle:

* Day 1 – dose ammonia to 2 ppm ammonia-nitrogen [NH3-N] using our ammonium chloride [After Nov 2016 when using DrTim’s ammonium chloride use 4 drops per gallon] [NOTE: do not expect your test kit to exactly read 2 ppm and it is not critical to get exactly 2 ppm. The key is to not add too much ammonia]. If using DrTim’s Aquatics One & Only Live Nitrifying bacteria add it now (turn skimmer, UV and ozone off and remove filter socks for 48 hours).
* Day 2 – Measure ammonia and nitrite.
* Day 3 – If ammonia and nitrite are below 1 ppm add more ammonia: four drops of our ammonium chloride per gallon (check the label).
* Days 4 & 5 – Measure ammonia and nitrite.
* Day 6 – If ammonia and nitrite are below 1 ppm add 2 ppm ammonia. Four drops of our ammonium chloride per gallon. [NOTE: since you have added the One & Only your ammonia kit will not read 2 ppm and DO NOT continue adding ammonia trying to get to 2 ppm – just add 2 ppm ammonia (4 drops per gallon of our ammonium chloride) and carry-on.
* Days 7 & 8 – Measure ammonia and nitrite. On the first measurement day (Day 2, 4, 5, 7 or 8) that BOTH ammonia and nitrite are both below 0.5 ppm (NH3-N or NO2-N) your tank is close to being cycled.


* Now start to measure ammonia and nitrite every day.
* When BOTH ammonia and nitrite are below 0.2 ppm (NH3-N or NO2-N), add another 2 ppm ammonia.
* Continue to measure every day. When you can add 2 ppm ammonia and BOTH ammonia and nitrite are below 0.2 ppm (NH3-N or NO2-N) the next day your tank is cycled – congrats! You’re done!
* Do a partial water change and add some fish.
* If either ammonia or nitrite concentration get above 5 ppm, do water changes to lower the concentration.
* Do not let the pH drop below 7. If it does, do a partial water change to bring the pH back up.
* Do not add ammonia removers to bind the ammonia – overdosing with these products will just increase the cycling time.
* You do not have to add ammonia everyday – the bacteria do not have to be fed every day. Adding ammonia everyday will results in a sky-high nitrite reading and slow the cycling process.

Thanks Reefahholic
I looked all over for that info but could only find the first paragraph. WoW! that sound complicated I should have just thrown a raw shrimp in and waited

 

[Reefahholic]

Thanks Reefahholic
I looked all over for that info but could only find the first paragraph. WoW! that sound complicated I should have just thrown a raw shrimp in and waited

That may take too long. Talk to some of the research guys, they’re all into the cycling stuff. They could fill you in on the easiest and fastest way. @taricha @Dan_P
@Miami Reef

 

[Miami Reef]

Dose about 2ppm. When it drops down near 0ppm, you are cycled. You can start adding fish thereafter.

 

[brandon429]

One dose is enough

if you follow the rules set on the label you’ll get a false stall and get tricked into buying multiple bottles of bacteria

you can convert any Dr Tims cycle into a testless cycle by adding one dose of ammonia half what he calls for, a pinch of fish food ground up into powder added with the bacteria and wait ten days then it’s cycled, and can’t not be cycled by that date. Your cycle is now fixed

no testing needed

the predetermined wait time in the stew is what you test. Don’t add unprepped fish, the hobby has changed. if you skip disease preps you will get what each post in the disease forum shows. Fish disease requires all the study, the cycle requires none other than counting to day ten. = new testless cycling that doesn’t trick you into buying multiple bottles of bacteria.

 

[jcmental]

I’m in no rush to get is cycled to be honest. I probably won’t buy any live stock until mid September.
One last question while it’s cycling, I know they recommend turning the heat up and the salt content down, but do I run my lights during the cycle?

 

[Harpo]

Per Dr Tim's video no lights

 

[brandon429]

that's solely a function of algae management and not factored into the cycle. how long you wait past day ten confers zero extra safety to fish vs starting on day ten. the actual fish preps you run are what determine their 8 month prognosis, and those preps are independent to cycling.

 

[jcmental]

Well it’s been 17 days, what a waste of money that Dr Tim’s start up kit was, I’d of been better off peeing in the tank to start off the cycle. Sure my ammonia has dropped from Dark green to yellow, but despite 2 33% water changes in 3 days the nitrite and nitrate are way to high and have been for 5 days.
I have plenty of flow in the tank, sand and rock but it’s still taking for ever

 

[brandon429]

its not stalled, it’s that you opted to ignore post #6 and instead chose to believe cheap non digital test kits

you are factoring nitrite, we don’t test for it in display tank reefing it’s a non factor. Search any post Randy from the chem forum has ever made on the site regarding nitrite

”Sure my ammonia has dropped from Dark green to yellow’

= cycled and your tank can’t be made safer for fish by waiting longer.


people by and large ignore the new rules nearly always, thats how we have been trained. It will lead to you buying new bacteria assuming your cycle is dead even though you can see the ammonia totally fixed, investing more $ due to the false stall.

It will 100% exclude you from studying disease info this whole time and instead hyperfocusing on what cheap test kits say for the two parameters we no longer factor in reef tank cycling

this is old cycling science. *This is how any search for stalled reef tank cycle goes down, in this exact order you are encountering

contrast what you perceive to these forty pages of new cycling science: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-unstick-any-seemingly-stuck-cycle.742202/


it’s not that you have the first stuck cycle we’ve ever seen in that thread, it’s that you’re using the wrong meter to discern when a cycle is stuck. That’s forty pages of people applying post #6 above and then getting an exact start date for their close cycle date

we don’t factor nitrite and nitrate levels in updated cycling science, there it is laid out for three straight years in one thread with over a hundred jobs.

 

[jcmental]

No, it’s that you opted to ignore post #6 and instead chose to believe cheap non digital test kits

you didn’t listen to the feed option, nor the timing option, nor the false stall info but I can understand why / it’s not the formal rules / most won’t choose the new rules. people stick with the cheap test kits and opt for the false stall nearly always, thats how we have been trained. It will lead to you buying new bacteria and investing more $ due to the false stall. It will 100% exclude you from studying disease info and instead hyperfocusing on what cheap test kits say, this is old cycling science. This is how any search for stalled reef tank cycle goes down, in this exact order.

contrast what you perceive to these forty pages of new cycling science:

Yeah thank for the reply, I’m sorry but I printed out the record sheet and followed it to the letter apart from the water changes as I was worried because the readings were so high it would as you say “stall”
As for “cheep non digital” test kits
I have been using 3 separate kits, one new and 2 from when I last had a tank in 2019, their 2 years out of date but are still showing the exact same readings as the new in date kit.

I’m actually thinking of doing a 90% water change just to see if the readings go up again over a few days, I’m wondering if I didn’t cure my rocks properly.

 

[buruskeee]

Ammonia going down is exactly what you want to see when waiting for the tank to cycle. The nitrite to nitrate process is proving your bacteria is working. Nitrates will stay in the tank until they are either consumed or exported somehow (various methods including water change if you choose - build a fuge instead).

As long as ammonia doesn’t spike again, your bacteria is working. The hard part (boring part) is over.